Euro 2020 Group B BEL, DEN, FIN, RUS

I got on with all the Danes I met in Copenhagen, maybe you were you just bit of a c**t?

To be fair, they're still a much better side than us irrespective of the amount of draws we had. We were over the moon when we got them in the 2017 playoff draw as we over estimated ourselves and underestimated them. I certainly underestimated them anyway. They really should've beaten us in Copenhagen too.

I thought at the time that they were just slightly better than us and we had a decent chance against them but teams like Denmark and Switzerland who qualify more often than we do are comfortably stronger than us.  

Would agree with a lot of that and as for the bit in bold, I think with the way Kenny wants us to play, we've lost that defensive solidity that we had under previous managers. 

If we're going to come out of our shell and play a less direct style, we're going to concede more goals. I'm afraid we don't have the players to score the goals that would mitigate against this with our more exposed defence. 

And from what I can see from the feast of football coming from Europe and South America at the moment is that strong defence remains integral to staying competitive. This goes back to my view that we cant just keep playing the system we are, with the players we have and expect different results when some sort of eureka moment occurs. Like in McCarthy's first stint there has to be trial and error, and that will include a clutch of players who probably won't be involved after a certain point. With a traditional style of defensive system (in an Irish way) we potentially scrape a draw in Belgrade, and we at least take a slightly embarrassing 0-0 against Luxembourg. With this more open style we conceded four, and lost both.

RB makes an interesting point about Finland, and in Pukki they have a functional and seasoned striker. But its alright and fine knocking the ball around a bit in defence, or deep in midfield, but without the necessary incision you won't beat stout midfielder, or defenders, and as a result you are just trying to play football, and I'm not sold on the mentality of "at least we're trying". Especially if this trying just leads to more dour draws or defeats to teams like Luxembourg.

Totally agree and I hope we're both wrong when it comes to Kenny over the next couole of years. 

First and foremost our playing style needs to be effective in acheiving results. 

And the thing is, if the football we were watching hadn't been so conservative for so long, I think the footballing public would see benefits to a more defensive style. And in many respects, aspects of the conservative approach pre-date Trap. The efforts to qualify for WC 2006 had very noticeable moments of restrictive football, particularly the second half in Tel Aviv, the substitution of Kavanagh for Keane, or the selection against the Swiss in Dublin in October 05. Over these years, a freer approach would probably have engendered better results, particularly as we saw in France in 2009.

The difference is, unlike previous managers who under-estimated our players abilities, and became so results orienteered it made the football difficult watch, we now don't have the players at the ready to change styles (at least dramatically). And to your point about the Hungary game, there are little green shoots. And this may result in understanding the need for lads like Duffy to be first names on the team sheet, even if we want to see combinations of younger players, or whatever.

I think it will be tough, but my hope is Kenny has not only learned from his first year in charge, but now has a greater understanding of the hybrid style that will probably be necessary, and indeed the identity of the players he wants to pick, even those who might appear to be ready to be put out to pasture.