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Footballers - who's Brexit and who's Remain?

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Robbie Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 8:26pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Originally posted by ErsatzThistle ErsatzThistle wrote:

Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:


I wonder how Beardsley voted.

Does Peter Beardsley actually have the intelligence to ....

i) register to vote in the first place.
ii) successfully locate his local polling station.
iii) correctly mark his choice on the ballot paper.
iv) successfully deposit the ballot paper in the little box.

I'm rather sceptical.

It’s a good observation. People in Newcastle do have difficulty with reading and writing 


Gazza will be on Question Time tonight as one of the guests giving his views on Brexit.
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Liam Brady
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GB 1HughJarse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 8:38pm
Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:


I wonder how Beardsley voted.



It says a lot about the stupidity of such a nasty
and objectionable post that its sheer vacuity is the most offensive
thing about it..


I'm not saying that Brexit is racist (there are a lot of valid reasons why people voted to leave) but there can be little doubt but that, following the Brexit vote, there has been an increase in racist incidents in the UK. Now, correlation and causation are tricky things, but it is generally accepted, and I believe rightly so, that the Brexit vote has acted as an influence and indeed something of a licence for behaviour the like of which occurred less frequently prior to the referendum. Distilled, I think it is fair to say that the average (median) Brexit voter is not racist, but racists are disproportionately in favour of Brexit.





My post may have been pithy but vacuous it was not.

And it is remarkable that you have to chosen to highlight your objection to my post
rather than addressing, in any way, the truly remarkable objectionableness of Beardsley's
comments. I'll say little more than that your attitude is itself deserving of remark. To go to the bother of posting that a somewhat glib aside on my part is nasty and objectionable, while saying nothing of Beardsley's antediluvian attitude, is striking. You may agree that Beardsley's comments were deplorable yet that is not what you chose to highlight. Incredible.


A mate of mine is English (he lives here).
I asked him what did his parents, who live in England, vote.....they voted Leave.....why?
“Bloody foreigners”
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Robbie Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 8:55pm
Well if they didn't want bloody foreigners in they shouldn't have invaded half the planet. I don't see how leaving the EU is going to reverse the amount of 'bloody foreigners' that live in good old blighty since the 1960's.

That bloody immigrant from Singapore Terry Butcher should be the 1st on the deportation boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NewtNewbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 9:42pm
Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:


I wonder how Beardsley voted.

It says a lot about the stupidity of such a nasty and objectionable post that its sheer vacuity is the most offensive thing about it..


I'm not saying that Brexit is racist (there are a lot of valid reasons why people voted to leave) but there can be little doubt but that, following the Brexit vote, there has been an increase in racist incidents in the UK. Now, correlation and causation are tricky things, but it is generally accepted, and I believe rightly so, that the Brexit vote has acted as an influence and indeed something of a licence for behaviour the like of which occurred less frequently prior to the referendum. Distilled, I think it is fair to say that the average (median) Brexit voter is not racist, but racists are disproportionately in favour of Brexit.





My post may have been pithy but vacuous it was not.

And it is remarkable that you have to chosen to highlight your objection to my post rather than addressing, in any way, the truly remarkable objectionableness of Beardsley's comments. I'll say little more than that your attitude is itself deserving of remark. To go to the bother of posting that a somewhat glib aside on my part is nasty and objectionable, while saying nothing of Beardsley's antediluvian attitude, is striking. You may agree that Beardsley's comments were deplorable yet that is not what you chose to highlight. Incredible.

All sorts of logical fallacies going on here. Cause equals correlation, guilt by association, failure to denounce (obviously) unacceptable behavior equates with consent and approval of said unacceptable behaviour. I could go on...

Unless you can show me differently, you have absolutely no idea how the racist, Peter Beardsley, voted in the 2016 referendum on UK membership of the EU; an institution of which all 78 commissioners are white and of which only 3 of 751 MEPs are black.

In one crass, self-admittedly 'glib' comment you've managed to trivialise the personal experiences of Beardsley's accusers, minimise the issue of racism more generally, and indulge in grossly offensive and all too prevalent tropes implying that people from the north of England, and working class people more widely, are thick, uneducated, racist, and morally inferior to middle-class 'woke' liberals such as yourself.

It would be like my lazily suggesting that because many of your liberal, 'progressive' pin-ups like Justin 'black face' Trudeau, John 'hang Nelson Mandella' Bercow, Oliver 'bad moral attitude' Letwin and Tony the War Criminal Blair, and so on, have an *ahem* somewhat less than immaculate past it meant that everyone from your political standpoint was somehow lacking in moral rectitude - which of course I never would.



Edited by NewtNewbie - 20 Sep 2019 at 10:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperDave84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 10:14pm
Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

All sorts of logical fallacies going on here. Cause equals correlation, guilt by association, failure to denounce (obviously) unacceptable behavior equates with consent and approval of said unacceptable behaviour. I could go on...

Unless you can show me differently, you have absolutely no idea how the racist, Peter Beardsley, voted, in the 2016 referendum on UK membership of the EU; an institution of which all 78 commissioners are white and of which only 3 of 751 MEPs are black.

In one crass, self-admittedly 'glib' comment you've managed to trivialise the personal experiences of Beardsley's accusers, minimise the issue of racism more generally, and indulge in grossly offensive and all too prevalent tropes implying that people from the north of England, and working class people more widely, are thick, uneducated, racist, and morally inferior to middle-class 'woke' liberals such as yourself.

It would be like my lazily suggesting that because many of your liberal, 'progressive' pin-ups like Justin 'Black Face' Trudeau, John 'Hang Nelson Mandella' Bercow, Oliver 'bad moral attitude' Letwin and Tony the War Criminal Blair, and so on, have an *ahem* less than immaculate past it meant that everyone from your political standpoint was somehow lacking in moral rectitude - which of course I never would.


There are an equal number of fallacies in your post; of course I have no idea how (or if!) Beardsley voted and expecting proof of that is demanding an impossible standard. I also expressly said correlation and causation was a difficult issue; I also didn't say your silence implied consent, I simply pointed out what you appeared to deem more worthy of criticism and I even went as far as to say you might well deplore Beardsley's comments. I basically addressed each of the points of criticism you now have in my first post and I can't see how you've missed that.

And whether the EU an an institution has structural racism issues is neither here nor there; what is apropos is that there is certifiable correlation between the vote and racist behaviour in the UK in a way that strongly implies causation. I also don't see that I in any way trivialised the issues and of course Beardsley's comments were disgraceful. Saying I trivialised them is, if anything, a false hue and cry of the type often used by right-wing snowflakes (for clarity, not saying you are). How you can possibly extrapolate from my posts to construct a straw man that I believe working-class people are thick, uneducated, racist of morally inferior is beyond me. Indeed, I also pointed out that there were many valid reasons why people voted to leave. Also, the working class were far from exclusively the voter base for Brexit, unlike what you seem to be implying. And the f**k Trudeau, Bercow, Letwin and Blair have to do with my point I don't know, still less suggesting they are pin-up icons of mine, all so you can try and make a cheap point at my expense (for clarity, you tried to make a point, and you missed).

Your post has far more sweeping generalisations and straw men than anything in mine.


Edited by SuperDave84 - 20 Sep 2019 at 10:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 10:27pm
John Barnes is a remainer. (true story) I guess the current politicians have taken a leaf from his rapping masterclass where he says "It doesn't matter how slow as long you get to the line"

Sol Campbell is a hard Brexiteer which is a surprise considering he's plays the racism card on a annuallybasis.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NewtNewbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 10:35pm
Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

All sorts of logical fallacies going on here. Cause equals correlation, guilt by association, failure to denounce (obviously) unacceptable behavior equates with consent and approval of said unacceptable behaviour. I could go on...

Unless you can show me differently, you have absolutely no idea how the racist, Peter Beardsley, voted, in the 2016 referendum on UK membership of the EU; an institution of which all 78 commissioners are white and of which only 3 of 751 MEPs are black.

In one crass, self-admittedly 'glib' comment you've managed to trivialise the personal experiences of Beardsley's accusers, minimise the issue of racism more generally, and indulge in grossly offensive and all too prevalent tropes implying that people from the north of England, and working class people more widely, are thick, uneducated, racist, and morally inferior to middle-class 'woke' liberals such as yourself.

It would be like my lazily suggesting that because many of your liberal, 'progressive' pin-ups like Justin 'Black Face' Trudeau, John 'Hang Nelson Mandella' Bercow, Oliver 'bad moral attitude' Letwin and Tony the War Criminal Blair, and so on, have an *ahem* less than immaculate past it meant that everyone from your political standpoint was somehow lacking in moral rectitude - which of course I never would.


There are an equal number of fallacies in your post; of course I have no idea how (or if!) Beardsley voted and expecting proof of that is demanding an impossible standard. I also expressly said correlation and causation was a difficult issue; I also didn't say your silence implied consent, I simply pointed out what you appeared to deem more worthy of criticism and I even went as far as to say you might well deplore Beardsley's comments. I basically addressed each of the points of criticism you now have in my first post and I can't see how you've missed that.

And whether the EU an an institution has structural racism issues is neither here nor there; what is apropos is that there is certifiable correlation between the vote and racist behaviour in the UK in a way that strongly implies causation. I also don't see that I in any way trivialised the issues and of course Beardsley's comments were disgraceful. Saying I trivialised them is, if anything, a false hue and cry of the type often used by right-wing snowflakes (for clarity, not saying you are). How you can possibly extrapolate from my posts to construct a straw man that I believe working-class people are thick, uneducated, racist of morally inferior is beyond me. Indeed, I also pointed out that there were many valid reasons why people voted to leave. Also, the working class were far from exclusively the voter base for Brexit, unlike what you seem to be implying. And the f**k Trudeau, Bercow, Letwin and Blair have to do with my point I don't know, still less suggesting they are pin-up icons of mine, all so you can try and make a cheap point at my expense (for clarity, you tried to make a point, and you missed).

Your post has far more sweeping generalisations and straw men than anything in mine.

What the f**k Beardsley has to do with the complex issues surrounding the UK's membership of the EU I don't know.

Back to your original post, and for clarity, what exactly were you implying when you asked 'how Beardsley voted'?

I was, obviously, making the point that because obvious c**ts such as Trudeau and co are of an anti-Brexit disposition, doesn't imply ('certifiable correlation') that all those opposed to the UK's leaving the EU are similarly c**tish.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperDave84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 10:52pm
The basic point, as appears to be backed up by the multiple articles I posted, is that racist behaviour has been, to an extent, enabled by the Brexit vote. Beardsley and his comments don't have much to do with Brexit per se but the sort of behaviour and comments he made have become more prevalent since the vote, and it is a viable hypothesis (and widely agreed with, for what it is worth, not that it means much) that the Brexit vote was a causative precursor to that. While Brexit of itself is not racist, the insular ideology of a number of its supporters (a minority of them, of course) is and is disproportionate to the number of those who voted remain who have similar opinions.

The key point: I don't think it is a stretch to imply, perhaps with a poor, misguided attempt at humour, that a person who made racist comments might well have voted for Brexit.

I don't see that that trivialises things but I appreciate now that it might have come across as that. However, saying people who have voiced things that are widely considered to be racist are more likely to have voted for Brexit (which is probably fair) is a very different thing from saying Brexit voters are racist (which is very much not fair); that is very much guilt by association and I was careful not to say that.

One last thing: I misread your line on Bercow, Trudeau et al, and you can ignore what I said about them; your point makes sense; I think I have always been clear in the same thread, in saying that Brexit voters are not racist by association. It's like the nonsense that Muslim leaders are expected to deplore Islamist violence quicker than anyone else or that Irish politicians, during the Troubles, were expected to be quick to castigate republican violence. None of that is fair and I don't think my posts implied that; I tried to be careful to avoid any implication along those lines. Indeed, I covered the very point in the first line of my first reply.

Anyway, I'm done: it's Friday night and I'm off for a late pint.


Edited by SuperDave84 - 20 Sep 2019 at 10:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slow & Blind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2019 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Originally posted by ErsatzThistle ErsatzThistle wrote:

Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:


I wonder how Beardsley voted.

Does Peter Beardsley actually have the intelligence to ....

i) register to vote in the first place.
ii) successfully locate his local polling station.
iii) correctly mark his choice on the ballot paper.
iv) successfully deposit the ballot paper in the little box.

I'm rather sceptical.

It’s a good observation. People in Newcastle do have difficulty with reading and writing 
Newcastle was the only area in the north east that voted remain. It's a liberal city, come visit some time. 
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