Footballers - who's Brexit and who's Remain? |
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Trap junior
Robbie Keane YBIG Minister of Doom & Gloom Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Irish Riviera Status: Offline Points: 39815 |
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Gazza will be on Question Time tonight as one of the guests giving his views on Brexit.
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Pied Piper to: Baldrick, Brendan 88, 9Fingers, Borussia and more...
97.6% chance this post will be replied to by Baldrick (source: PWC) |
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GB 1HughJarse
Liam Brady Joined: 03 Sep 2015 Status: Offline Points: 2091 |
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A mate of mine is English (he lives here). I asked him what did his parents, who live in England, vote.....they voted Leave.....why? “Bloody foreigners” |
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Trap junior
Robbie Keane YBIG Minister of Doom & Gloom Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Irish Riviera Status: Offline Points: 39815 |
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Well if they didn't want bloody foreigners in they shouldn't have invaded half the planet. I don't see how leaving the EU is going to reverse the amount of 'bloody foreigners' that live in good old blighty since the 1960's. That bloody immigrant from Singapore Terry Butcher should be the 1st on the deportation boat.
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Pied Piper to: Baldrick, Brendan 88, 9Fingers, Borussia and more...
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NewtNewbie
Liam Brady Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Status: Offline Points: 2416 |
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All sorts of logical fallacies going on here. Cause equals correlation, guilt by association, failure to denounce (obviously) unacceptable behavior equates with consent and approval of said unacceptable behaviour. I could go on... Unless you can show me differently, you have absolutely no idea how the racist, Peter Beardsley, voted in the 2016 referendum on UK membership of the EU; an institution of which all 78 commissioners are white and of which only 3 of 751 MEPs are black. In one crass, self-admittedly 'glib' comment you've managed to trivialise the personal experiences of Beardsley's accusers, minimise the issue of racism more generally, and indulge in grossly offensive and all too prevalent tropes implying that people from the north of England, and working class people more widely, are thick, uneducated, racist, and morally inferior to middle-class 'woke' liberals such as yourself. It would be like my lazily suggesting that because many of your liberal, 'progressive' pin-ups like Justin 'black face' Trudeau, John 'hang Nelson Mandella' Bercow, Oliver 'bad moral attitude' Letwin and Tony the War Criminal Blair, and so on, have an *ahem* somewhat less than immaculate past it meant that everyone from your political standpoint was somehow lacking in moral rectitude - which of course I never would. Edited by NewtNewbie - 20 Sep 2019 at 10:21pm |
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SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
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There are an equal number of fallacies in your post; of course I have no idea how (or if!) Beardsley voted and expecting proof of that is demanding an impossible standard. I also expressly said correlation and causation was a difficult issue; I also didn't say your silence implied consent, I simply pointed out what you appeared to deem more worthy of criticism and I even went as far as to say you might well deplore Beardsley's comments. I basically addressed each of the points of criticism you now have in my first post and I can't see how you've missed that. And whether the EU an an institution has structural racism issues is neither here nor there; what is apropos is that there is certifiable correlation between the vote and racist behaviour in the UK in a way that strongly implies causation. I also don't see that I in any way trivialised the issues and of course Beardsley's comments were disgraceful. Saying I trivialised them is, if anything, a false hue and cry of the type often used by right-wing snowflakes (for clarity, not saying you are). How you can possibly extrapolate from my posts to construct a straw man that I believe working-class people are thick, uneducated, racist of morally inferior is beyond me. Indeed, I also pointed out that there were many valid reasons why people voted to leave. Also, the working class were far from exclusively the voter base for Brexit, unlike what you seem to be implying. And the f**k Trudeau, Bercow, Letwin and Blair have to do with my point I don't know, still less suggesting they are pin-up icons of mine, all so you can try and make a cheap point at my expense (for clarity, you tried to make a point, and you missed). Your post has far more sweeping generalisations and straw men than anything in mine.
Edited by SuperDave84 - 20 Sep 2019 at 10:15pm |
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coyne
Paul McGrath Joined: 17 Aug 2013 Location: Sunderland Status: Offline Points: 15881 |
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John Barnes is a remainer. (true story) I guess the current politicians have taken a leaf from his rapping masterclass where he says "It doesn't matter how slow as long you get to the line"
Sol Campbell is a hard Brexiteer which is a surprise considering he's plays the racism card on a annuallybasis.
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NewtNewbie
Liam Brady Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Status: Offline Points: 2416 |
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What the f**k Beardsley has to do with the complex issues surrounding the UK's membership of the EU I don't know. Back to your original post, and for clarity, what exactly were you implying when you asked 'how Beardsley voted'? I was, obviously, making the point that because obvious c**ts such as Trudeau and co are of an anti-Brexit disposition, doesn't imply ('certifiable correlation') that all those opposed to the UK's leaving the EU are similarly c**tish.
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SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
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The basic point, as appears to be backed up by the multiple articles I posted, is that racist behaviour has been, to an extent, enabled by the Brexit vote. Beardsley and his comments don't have much to do with Brexit per se but the sort of behaviour and comments he made have become more prevalent since the vote, and it is a viable hypothesis (and widely agreed with, for what it is worth, not that it means much) that the Brexit vote was a causative precursor to that. While Brexit of itself is not racist, the insular ideology of a number of its supporters (a minority of them, of course) is and is disproportionate to the number of those who voted remain who have similar opinions. The key point: I don't think it is a stretch to imply, perhaps with a poor, misguided attempt at humour, that a person who made racist comments might well have voted for Brexit. I don't see that that trivialises things but I appreciate now that it might have come across as that. However, saying people who have voiced things that are widely considered to be racist are more likely to have voted for Brexit (which is probably fair) is a very different thing from saying Brexit voters are racist (which is very much not fair); that is very much guilt by association and I was careful not to say that. One last thing: I misread your line on Bercow, Trudeau et al, and you can ignore what I said about them; your point makes sense; I think I have always been clear in the same thread, in saying that Brexit voters are not racist by association. It's like the nonsense that Muslim leaders are expected to deplore Islamist violence quicker than anyone else or that Irish politicians, during the Troubles, were expected to be quick to castigate republican violence. None of that is fair and I don't think my posts implied that; I tried to be careful to avoid any implication along those lines. Indeed, I covered the very point in the first line of my first reply. Anyway, I'm done: it's Friday night and I'm off for a late pint.
Edited by SuperDave84 - 20 Sep 2019 at 10:55pm |
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Slow & Blind
Davey Langan Joined: 04 Feb 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Offline Points: 773 |
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Newcastle was the only area in the north east that voted remain. It's a liberal city, come visit some time.
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