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2018 English League Cup Final

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by bhob bhob wrote:

Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:


If Sane stuck out a leg then fair enough, but the ball is going one direction and the keeper the other, he's not affecting the play at all.

But again is that the rule or your interpretation of it? To me he's in the eye-line of the goalie and between him and the defender. Arsenal have a legitimate claim there. 

I don't think it mattered anyway as City would've more than likely got the second sooner or later. 

The linesmen need to help refs more on decisions like this as it's impossible for a ref to know every factor in contentious goals like that. 

Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bhob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 7:40pm
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by bhob bhob wrote:

Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:


If Sane stuck out a leg then fair enough, but the ball is going one direction and the keeper the other, he's not affecting the play at all.

But again is that the rule or your interpretation of it? To me he's in the eye-line of the goalie and between him and the defender. Arsenal have a legitimate claim there. 

I don't think it mattered anyway as City would've more than likely got the second sooner or later. 

The linesmen need to help refs more on decisions like this as it's impossible for a ref to know every factor in contentious goals like that. 


So because you think the keeper can see Sane he's offside? How about Aguero surely he can see him also
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 7:48pm
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

They should go back to the old rule.  If you're standing offside, you're offside no matter if you're at the corner flag or right in front of the goalie. It would cut out players strolling back from offside positions.
Sorry, but as a Grade 3 Referee of many years ago(!), I can only say that that is obviously and demonstrably incorrect.

The old* rule was quite clear in principle (if not always in practice**) in that it was NOT enough to be in an offside position in order to be offside: you ALSO had to be either (actively) interfering with play or seeking to gain an advantage ('goal-hanging' usually).

Otherwise every time Stan Matthews skinned his full back on the outside and sent in a cross from out by the corner flag, he would have offside from the moment Stan Mortenson connected with the cross and headed it towards the goal. But since he was no longer interfering, or in a position to gain any advantage, he wasn't.

Anyhow, the rule has since been amended to "gaining an advantage" (rather than "seeking to") and also to incorporate "interfering with an opponent" as a third means of converting "being in an offside position" to "being offside":




* - By "old", I assume you mean the original rule.

** - Interpreting what "interfering", or even "seeking an advantage" means is not always clear; nonetheless the principle remains, one or other had to exist, alongside the offside positioning, for a player to be deemed to be "offside".
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperDave84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 7:57pm
Actually that's a very good point... the winger, having swung in the cross and then lying prostrate on the byline having lost his balance hitting the cross, is offside when the centre forward heads it goalward int the centre.

That has never been an offside offence, nor should it.


Edited by SuperDave84 - 27 Feb 2018 at 7:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

They should go back to the old rule.  If you're standing offside, you're offside no matter if you're at the corner flag or right in front of the goalie. It would cut out players strolling back from offside positions.
Sorry, but as a Grade 3 Referee of many years ago(!), I can only say that that is obviously and demonstrably incorrect.

The old* rule was quite clear in principle (if not always in practice**) in that it was NOT enough to be in an offside position in order to be offside: you ALSO had to be either (actively) interfering with play or seeking to gain an advantage ('goal-hanging' usually).

Otherwise every time Stan Matthews skinned his full back on the outside and sent in a cross from out by the corner flag, he would have offside from the moment Stan Mortenson connected with the cross and headed it towards the goal. But since he was no longer interfering, or in a position to gain any advantage, he wasn't.

Anyhow, the rule has since been amended to "gaining an advantage" (rather than "seeking to") and also to incorporate "interfering with an opponent" as a third means of converting "being in an offside position" to "being offside":




* - By "old", I assume you mean the original rule.

** - Interpreting what "interfering", or even "seeking an advantage" means is not always clear; nonetheless the principle remains, one or other had to exist, alongside the offside positioning, for a player to be deemed to be "offside".
 

Thought it was a lot more clear cut from the original rule. Fair enough. Thumbs Up

Regarding Sane's positioning for the second goal, would that not be considered 'goal-hanging' in the old rule?

Given your definition, under the new rules, what could Sane be in breach of? Legitimate goal under the new rules but not under the old rules?  




Edited by irishmufc - 27 Feb 2018 at 8:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 8:04pm
Originally posted by bhob bhob wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by bhob bhob wrote:

Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:


If Sane stuck out a leg then fair enough, but the ball is going one direction and the keeper the other, he's not affecting the play at all.

But again is that the rule or your interpretation of it? To me he's in the eye-line of the goalie and between him and the defender. Arsenal have a legitimate claim there. 

I don't think it mattered anyway as City would've more than likely got the second sooner or later. 

The linesmen need to help refs more on decisions like this as it's impossible for a ref to know every factor in contentious goals like that. 


So because you think the keeper can see Sane he's offside? How about Aguero surely he can see him also

Aguero is in a less central position and it would've been extremely harsh to disallow City's goal if Sane wasn't present and Aguero was but I suppose what constitutes the goalie's 'eye-line area' is what we'd need to be clear on as I'm not sure if I'm correct (I'm probably not) LOL 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zinedine Kilbane 110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 8:36pm
Originally posted by bhob bhob wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by bhob bhob wrote:

Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:



If Sane stuck out a leg then fair enough, but the ball is going one direction and the keeper the other, he's not affecting the play at all.


But again is that the rule or your interpretation of it? To me he's in the eye-line of the goalie and between him and the defender. Arsenal have a legitimate claim there. 

I don't think it mattered anyway as City would've more than likely got the second sooner or later. 

The linesmen need to help refs more on decisions like this as it's impossible for a ref to know every factor in contentious goals like that. 



So because you think the keeper can see Sane he's offside? How about Aguero surely he can see him also


Aguero is onside tho.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bhob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 8:44pm
Aguero is not onside ye lunatic LOL

Here's a video of the goal. Keeper goes the wrong way and there's virtually no appeals from the Arsenal team, maybe a few half hearted ones. It actually looks like Sane and Aguero appeal for offside first LOL






Edited by bhob - 27 Feb 2018 at 8:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zinedine Kilbane 110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 9:00pm
Originally posted by bhob bhob wrote:

Aguero is not onside ye lunatic LOL

Here's a video of the goal. Keeper goes the wrong way and there's virtually no appeals from the Arsenal team, maybe a few half hearted ones. It actually looks like Sane and Aguero appeal for offside first LOL








My bad...
Yeah he was offside too.
I don’t think City would have argued that much if it wasn’t given.

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