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Trap junior 
Robbie Keane
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 Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 12:59pm |
 kevin100 wrote:
Trap junior wrote:
kevin100 wrote:
MC Hammered wrote:
So we used to punt a heap of kids to England, stick them in the meat grinder and hope a Liam Brady would emerge from the 100's who went across. That was the previous "system". Let's go back to that?
Why stop at 3 Champions League players? If you still have that genies bottle handy and havent used up all the wishes, let's make it 8 Champions League players.
You willfully missed my point on McGrath and Keane. They were older than most of the lads, who you have written off as journeymen of the future, when they broke through in England and made an impact. My main point is that we can't write EVERYONE off before they have even had a chance |
This is it what the Brexit rule stops is the 95 of the 100 who aren't a standout getting sent to the slaughterhouse. They can stay here potentially break into a first team in one of the 20 clubs around in Ireland and play men's football learn their trade.
You don't build a solid international team by praying for 2/3 CL players and hoping for the best you build one by maximising your player pool and developing a squad of real solid PL/Championship players. Our lack of League and English football being a slaughterhouse for young players meant we were minimising it.
That's not to say we haven't got 4/5 young lads with that CL standard potential now we definitely do.
Particularly our volume of decent attacking players suffered from this the likes of Kenny or Burns are miles better off staying here playing regularly learn thier trade then going to England to rot in a U23 team.
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Who do you think? I can see Bazuno or Kelleher but we need outfield players playing at that level particularly midfielders and strikers.
I have not seen any standout player coming through. Maybe yer man Zefi has the best chance but he still has a long long way to go and for all we know never even make it like Conor Clifford.
Duff and the two Keanes were obviously top players in their first season. When a player has top quality it stands out a mile. Bazunu for example has put in some unreal saves and performances already and all in his first few games for Ireland and hes only 19! That's a sign this guy is top level.
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Bazunu and Kelleher for sure would be top of the list. Travers may well be playing PL football at 23 next year for a keeper by any standard that's fairly rare and bodes very well for him with a view to getting a move to a Top 6/7 club down the line or a CL club on the continent. Our goalkeeping situation is just freakish for a small country of our size.
Omobamidele and Collins. Can you find me 2 CBs 19 and 20 that have gotten PL minutes this season. Both lads have considerable potential especially in the modern game where bigger clubs are crying out for top CBs
Knight I think has plenty potential also shows real quality.
As for Bazunu your going back to Robbie Keane really to find a player who just shows what you would describe as unique ability by any standard in World football. Last teen to play a competive qualifier in goal was Oblak for context.
Even Duff for all I'm sure he was class played for Blackburn in the Championship in his early 20s. |
Duff played two seasons in the PL before Blackburn were relegated. He was getting MOTM performaces as a kid in the premier league.
I just dont buy that this current crop of youngsters are any better than previous generations. We could have named McPhail, Partridge, McShane, Gibson etc all showing great potential . We had two European Championship winning sides in 1998 and only a few players from that team amounted to anything.
I could be wrong of course but I've seen it all before. So and so is going to be a top player and then they never even make it never mind be a top player.
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John Nice
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 1:29pm |
Trap junior wrote:
kevin100 wrote:
Trap junior wrote:
kevin100 wrote:
MC Hammered wrote:
So we used to punt a heap of kids to England, stick them in the meat grinder and hope a Liam Brady would emerge from the 100's who went across. That was the previous "system". Let's go back to that?
Why stop at 3 Champions League players? If you still have that genies bottle handy and havent used up all the wishes, let's make it 8 Champions League players.
You willfully missed my point on McGrath and Keane. They were older than most of the lads, who you have written off as journeymen of the future, when they broke through in England and made an impact. My main point is that we can't write EVERYONE off before they have even had a chance |
This is it what the Brexit rule stops is the 95 of the 100 who aren't a standout getting sent to the slaughterhouse. They can stay here potentially break into a first team in one of the 20 clubs around in Ireland and play men's football learn their trade.
You don't build a solid international team by praying for 2/3 CL players and hoping for the best you build one by maximising your player pool and developing a squad of real solid PL/Championship players. Our lack of League and English football being a slaughterhouse for young players meant we were minimising it.
That's not to say we haven't got 4/5 young lads with that CL standard potential now we definitely do.
Particularly our volume of decent attacking players suffered from this the likes of Kenny or Burns are miles better off staying here playing regularly learn thier trade then going to England to rot in a U23 team.
|
Who do you think? I can see Bazuno or Kelleher but we need outfield players playing at that level particularly midfielders and strikers.
I have not seen any standout player coming through. Maybe yer man Zefi has the best chance but he still has a long long way to go and for all we know never even make it like Conor Clifford.
Duff and the two Keanes were obviously top players in their first season. When a player has top quality it stands out a mile. Bazunu for example has put in some unreal saves and performances already and all in his first few games for Ireland and hes only 19! That's a sign this guy is top level.
|
Bazunu and Kelleher for sure would be top of the list. Travers may well be playing PL football at 23 next year for a keeper by any standard that's fairly rare and bodes very well for him with a view to getting a move to a Top 6/7 club down the line or a CL club on the continent. Our goalkeeping situation is just freakish for a small country of our size.
Omobamidele and Collins. Can you find me 2 CBs 19 and 20 that have gotten PL minutes this season. Both lads have considerable potential especially in the modern game where bigger clubs are crying out for top CBs
Knight I think has plenty potential also shows real quality.
As for Bazunu your going back to Robbie Keane really to find a player who just shows what you would describe as unique ability by any standard in World football. Last teen to play a competive qualifier in goal was Oblak for context.
Even Duff for all I'm sure he was class played for Blackburn in the Championship in his early 20s. |
Duff played two seasons in the PL before Blackburn were relegated. He was getting MOTM performaces as a kid in the premier league.
I just dont buy that this current crop of youngsters are any better than previous generations. We could have named McPhail, Partridge, McShane, Gibson etc all showing great potential . We had two European Championship winning sides in 1998 and only a few players from that team amounted to anything.
I could be wrong of course but I've seen it all before. So and so is going to be a top player and then they never even make it never mind be a top player.
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I think it was probably a tad easier to make the breakthrough at PL level in Duff/Keane's era. Leaving that aside, I think the sheer volume of young players we have coming through atm at a relatively high level should ensure that there are least 6 or 7 PL regulars in our first team in the next 2 to 3 years. Lads like Kelleher, Omobamidele, Collins, O'Shea, Idah, Connolly, Smallbone all have PL minutes under their belt, while lads like Travers, Kilkenny, Knight, Taylor, Bagan. Ebosele, Mc Guinness, Ronan, Doyle-Hayes are all playing regularly in the Championship/SPL. All of those listed are 23 or under and I havent included the likes of Coventry, Parrott, Bazunu, Ogbene (I know he's older @ 24, but he didnt go across until he was 21yo and lost a year through injury), Obafemi, Scales etc. who all look to have a bit about them also.
Whether or not any of them become CL quality i.e. playing for a Top 4 PL club, I dont know, but even if just one can do so and we can mainly surround him with genuine PL players in the first XI, then we will be very competitive going forward, just look at Scotland right now - I certainly think we can aim for that kind of level at least.
It's almost impossible to make a call on the likes of Zefi, Moran, O'Neill and Ferguson at their age and at this point in their careers, but they certainly stand out at their age groups.
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OnTheOneRoad
Ray Houghton
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Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 1:58pm |
Trap junior wrote:
kevin100 wrote:
Trap junior wrote:
kevin100 wrote:
MC Hammered wrote:
So we used to punt a heap of kids to England, stick them in the meat grinder and hope a Liam Brady would emerge from the 100's who went across. That was the previous "system". Let's go back to that?
Why stop at 3 Champions League players? If you still have that genies bottle handy and havent used up all the wishes, let's make it 8 Champions League players.
You willfully missed my point on McGrath and Keane. They were older than most of the lads, who you have written off as journeymen of the future, when they broke through in England and made an impact. My main point is that we can't write EVERYONE off before they have even had a chance |
This is it what the Brexit rule stops is the 95 of the 100 who aren't a standout getting sent to the slaughterhouse. They can stay here potentially break into a first team in one of the 20 clubs around in Ireland and play men's football learn their trade.
You don't build a solid international team by praying for 2/3 CL players and hoping for the best you build one by maximising your player pool and developing a squad of real solid PL/Championship players. Our lack of League and English football being a slaughterhouse for young players meant we were minimising it.
That's not to say we haven't got 4/5 young lads with that CL standard potential now we definitely do.
Particularly our volume of decent attacking players suffered from this the likes of Kenny or Burns are miles better off staying here playing regularly learn thier trade then going to England to rot in a U23 team.
|
Who do you think? I can see Bazuno or Kelleher but we need outfield players playing at that level particularly midfielders and strikers.
I have not seen any standout player coming through. Maybe yer man Zefi has the best chance but he still has a long long way to go and for all we know never even make it like Conor Clifford.
Duff and the two Keanes were obviously top players in their first season. When a player has top quality it stands out a mile. Bazunu for example has put in some unreal saves and performances already and all in his first few games for Ireland and hes only 19! That's a sign this guy is top level.
|
Bazunu and Kelleher for sure would be top of the list. Travers may well be playing PL football at 23 next year for a keeper by any standard that's fairly rare and bodes very well for him with a view to getting a move to a Top 6/7 club down the line or a CL club on the continent. Our goalkeeping situation is just freakish for a small country of our size.
Omobamidele and Collins. Can you find me 2 CBs 19 and 20 that have gotten PL minutes this season. Both lads have considerable potential especially in the modern game where bigger clubs are crying out for top CBs
Knight I think has plenty potential also shows real quality.
As for Bazunu your going back to Robbie Keane really to find a player who just shows what you would describe as unique ability by any standard in World football. Last teen to play a competive qualifier in goal was Oblak for context.
Even Duff for all I'm sure he was class played for Blackburn in the Championship in his early 20s. |
Duff played two seasons in the PL before Blackburn were relegated. He was getting MOTM performaces as a kid in the premier league.
I just dont buy that this current crop of youngsters are any better than previous generations. We could have named McPhail, Partridge, McShane, Gibson etc all showing great potential . We had two European Championship winning sides in 1998 and only a few players from that team amounted to anything.
I could be wrong of course but I've seen it all before. So and so is going to be a top player and then they never even make it never mind be a top player.
|
Look at England's squad. Obviously you've got the likes of Bellingham, Rashford, Smith Rowe, Saka, Sterling which is to be expected for a country of their size and pedigree, and it is their league after all. But an awful lot more of them were playing Championship football at that age.
Mason Mount was on loan to Derby, Kane was benched for Leicester in the Championship, Vardy didn't make it until his mid-twenties, Grealish was in the Championship until he was 23-24, Maguire was at Hull until he was 24, Bamford until he was in his mid-twenties, Kalvin Phillips the same.
MOTM performances as a kid in the Premier League are the exception rather than the norm nowadays. Every team can go out and buy a ready made top player - even the likes of Norwich, rock bottom of the league beating Bayer Leverkusen to sign Rashica. Late bloomers will be more and more common as this continues. It's too early to say where these kids will end up, but they have talent.
Edited by OnTheOneRoad - 18 Nov 2021 at 1:59pm
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No thank you Turkish......I'm sweet enough
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kevin100
Ray Houghton
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Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 1:58pm |
John Nice wrote:
Trap junior wrote:
kevin100 wrote:
Trap junior wrote:
kevin100 wrote:
MC Hammered wrote:
So we used to punt a heap of kids to England, stick them in the meat grinder and hope a Liam Brady would emerge from the 100's who went across. That was the previous "system". Let's go back to that?
Why stop at 3 Champions League players? If you still have that genies bottle handy and havent used up all the wishes, let's make it 8 Champions League players.
You willfully missed my point on McGrath and Keane. They were older than most of the lads, who you have written off as journeymen of the future, when they broke through in England and made an impact. My main point is that we can't write EVERYONE off before they have even had a chance |
This is it what the Brexit rule stops is the 95 of the 100 who aren't a standout getting sent to the slaughterhouse. They can stay here potentially break into a first team in one of the 20 clubs around in Ireland and play men's football learn their trade.
You don't build a solid international team by praying for 2/3 CL players and hoping for the best you build one by maximising your player pool and developing a squad of real solid PL/Championship players. Our lack of League and English football being a slaughterhouse for young players meant we were minimising it.
That's not to say we haven't got 4/5 young lads with that CL standard potential now we definitely do.
Particularly our volume of decent attacking players suffered from this the likes of Kenny or Burns are miles better off staying here playing regularly learn thier trade then going to England to rot in a U23 team.
|
Who do you think? I can see Bazuno or Kelleher but we need outfield players playing at that level particularly midfielders and strikers.
I have not seen any standout player coming through. Maybe yer man Zefi has the best chance but he still has a long long way to go and for all we know never even make it like Conor Clifford.
Duff and the two Keanes were obviously top players in their first season. When a player has top quality it stands out a mile. Bazunu for example has put in some unreal saves and performances already and all in his first few games for Ireland and hes only 19! That's a sign this guy is top level.
|
Bazunu and Kelleher for sure would be top of the list. Travers may well be playing PL football at 23 next year for a keeper by any standard that's fairly rare and bodes very well for him with a view to getting a move to a Top 6/7 club down the line or a CL club on the continent. Our goalkeeping situation is just freakish for a small country of our size.
Omobamidele and Collins. Can you find me 2 CBs 19 and 20 that have gotten PL minutes this season. Both lads have considerable potential especially in the modern game where bigger clubs are crying out for top CBs
Knight I think has plenty potential also shows real quality.
As for Bazunu your going back to Robbie Keane really to find a player who just shows what you would describe as unique ability by any standard in World football. Last teen to play a competive qualifier in goal was Oblak for context.
Even Duff for all I'm sure he was class played for Blackburn in the Championship in his early 20s. |
Duff played two seasons in the PL before Blackburn were relegated. He was getting MOTM performaces as a kid in the premier league.
I just dont buy that this current crop of youngsters are any better than previous generations. We could have named McPhail, Partridge, McShane, Gibson etc all showing great potential . We had two European Championship winning sides in 1998 and only a few players from that team amounted to anything.
I could be wrong of course but I've seen it all before. So and so is going to be a top player and then they never even make it never mind be a top player.
|
I think it was probably a tad easier to make the breakthrough at PL level in Duff/Keane's era. Leaving that aside, I think the sheer volume of young players we have coming through atm at a relatively high level should ensure that there are least 6 or 7 PL regulars in our first team in the next 2 to 3 years. Lads like Kelleher, Omobamidele, Collins, O'Shea, Idah, Connolly, Smallbone all have PL minutes under their belt, while lads like Travers, Kilkenny, Knight, Taylor, Bagan. Ebosele, Mc Guinness, Ronan, Doyle-Hayes are all playing regularly in the Championship/SPL. All of those listed are 23 or under and I havent included the likes of Coventry, Parrott, Bazunu, Ogbene (I know he's older @ 24, but he didnt go across until he was 21yo and lost a year through injury), Obafemi, Scales etc. who all look to have a bit about them also.
Whether or not any of them become CL quality i.e. playing for a Top 4 PL club, I dont know, but even if just one can do so and we can mainly surround him with genuine PL players in the first XI, then we will be very competitive going forward, just look at Scotland right now - I certainly think we can aim for that kind of level at least.
It's almost impossible to make a call on the likes of Zefi, Moran, O'Neill and Ferguson at their age and at this point in their careers, but they certainly stand out at their age groups. |
It definitely was more then a tad easier compared to now where the standard of footballer being imported is mental. The Championship is also a more competive today then it was 15/20 years ago. No one is saying all 6 will go onto do this but there's every chance between them not to mention the other lads mentioned we will have 2/3.
Ireland was another one the best example. Mcphail and Gibson broke through at bigger clubs but again it was easier to do that even 15 years ago when Gibson broke though.
I think we have the largest volume of promising young players we have produced in a while certainly 20 years.. Even compared to when we had Brady Hendrick etc that was nothing like what we have now.
We have even seen what your described above with Connolly. His first season a double against Spurs how good he looked you wouldn't have thought he'd have gone backwards like he has. Obafemi likewise. They serve a reminder don't they.
Edited by kevin100 - 18 Nov 2021 at 2:03pm
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t_rAndy
Robbie Keane
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Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 3:27pm |
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The Huntacha
Roy Keane
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Posted: 19 Nov 2021 at 6:11am |
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I think we need to row back our aspirations slightly. Why should we have 2/3 players playing CL football? I'm open to correction but do we even have any players in the Europa Conference League? I'd settle for more of our players playing in the ECL/EL than having 1 or 2 playing in the CL.
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Heimatklange
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Posted: 19 Nov 2021 at 9:47am |
The Huntacha wrote:
I think we need to row back our aspirations slightly. Why should we have 2/3 players playing CL football? I'm open to correction but do we even have any players in the Europa Conference League? I'd settle for more of our players playing in the ECL/EL than having 1 or 2 playing in the CL. |
Kelleher likely to get a run in the CL for Liverpool as they have qualified
Mccarthy/Scales have minutes for Celtic in the EL.
Carey playing for cska Sofia in the ECL
Doherty for Spurs in the ECL
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t_rAndy
Robbie Keane
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Posted: 19 Nov 2021 at 10:24am |
The Huntacha wrote:
I think we need to row back our aspirations slightly. Why should we have 2/3 players playing CL football? I'm open to correction but do we even have any players in the Europa Conference League? I'd settle for more of our players playing in the ECL/EL than having 1 or 2 playing in the CL. |
If more players went to Europe like people like Carey then we would surely have more. Fact that our lads mostly play in England, it's very hard to break into the top 4 or even top half of the EPL these days with the squads as loaded as they are with the billions Euro of talent from around the world
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Eoink21
Liam Brady
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Posted: 19 Nov 2021 at 12:10pm |
The Huntacha wrote:
I think we need to row back our aspirations slightly. Why should we have 2/3 players playing CL football? I'm open to correction but do we even have any players in the Europa Conference League? I'd settle for more of our players playing in the ECL/EL than having 1 or 2 playing in the CL. |
It would be some going alright. If you look at Wales and Scotland, they have 2 each really in Ramsey, Bale, Robertson and McTominay.
It's a difficult one too use as a benchmark (number of CL players). McTominay is not as good as Tierney or McGinn and maybe even Armstrong and McGregor. Similarly, we saw Thill on the bench for Luxembourg who played and scored this season for Sheriff.
Sure look, we can aspire as high as we like- let's see where we ultimately end up.
No matter what anyone says, our production line has improved signficantly. We all know about some of the barren years in the early 90s. I am looking at our present squad and you'd imagine 27 and 28 would be common ages for international players to be hitting peak. We have Will Keane and nobody else 27 or 28 and Keane is a recent joiner. Scotland have 3 crucial players that age- McGinn, Robertson, McGregor. Wales have 4 but a much patchier squad.
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9fingers
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Posted: 19 Nov 2021 at 12:53pm |
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Thill on the bench on Sunday was an odd one alright
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Trap junior
Robbie Keane
YBIG Minister of Doom & Gloom
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Posted: 19 Nov 2021 at 1:58pm |
9fingers wrote:
Thill on the bench on Sunday was an odd one alright |
Theres 2 of them.
Not sure which one played against The EIRE on Sun
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9fingers
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Posted: 19 Nov 2021 at 2:00pm |
Trap junior wrote:
9fingers wrote:
Thill on the bench on Sunday was an odd one alright |
Theres 2 of them.
Not sure which one played against The EIRE on Sun
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Olivier started, he plays in the Ukrainian league
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Maccatacca
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Posted: 19 Nov 2021 at 4:26pm |
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I'd say if you offered either of the Thill lads a choice of Robbie Brady's Bournemouth wages or a rare night out in the Champions League for some far off Eastern European team they'd go with the former.
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Artie Ziff
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Posted: 19 Nov 2021 at 4:41pm |
Trapjunior. Google Steve Finann's career
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It would damage this forums' reputation
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Hotlips_Hoolahan
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Posted: 27 Nov 2021 at 5:07pm |
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Has only conceded once from open play in his last eight games for club and country.
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Roberto Baggio
Robbie Keane
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Posted: 27 Nov 2021 at 5:11pm |
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
Has only conceded once from open play in his last eight games for club and country. |
Doesn't matter in Planning's view. He conceded in Portugal so will never make it, should consider hanging up the gloves
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Wheelo
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Posted: 27 Nov 2021 at 7:20pm |
Roberto Baggio wrote:
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
Has only conceded once from open play in his last eight games for club and country. |
Doesn't matter in Planning's view. He conceded in Portugal so will never make it, should consider hanging up the gloves
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To be fair to planning, no goal conceded for Kelleher again today 
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"Not surprised you are anti foreigner in your so called Kip of a town when you don’t want a manager because he is Swedish and you want big Sam in charge" - a fine post from a fine ybig poster
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Donegalman
Liam Brady
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Posted: 07 Dec 2021 at 7:55pm |
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Portsmouth game on Sky this evening.
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