Frexit

FrankosHereNow wrote: corkery wrote: The problem with current politics is when you disagree with anyone, you just call them facist. You need to win the arguments. The problem with fascists is they always come out with sh*t like this.

No, the problem is that leftists have made the word fascist useless.  Same as sexist, racist, islamophobe, etc.  All of these words mean next to nothing now because of leftists throwing them at anyone who disagrees with them.

Landon Donovan wrote: corkery wrote: The problem with current politics is when you disagree with anyone, you just call them facist. You need to win the arguments. The word has no effect anymore. Everybody is a fascist. Marine Le Pen, Donald Trump, Nigel Farage, even Enda Kenny ffs

Keano2000 wrote: FrankosHereNow wrote: corkery wrote: The problem with current politics is when you disagree with anyone, you just call them facist. You need to win the arguments. The problem with fascists is they always come out with sh*t like this. No, the problem is that leftists have made the word fascist useless.  Same as sexist, racist, islamophobe, etc.  All of these words mean next to nothing now because of leftists throwing them at anyone who disagrees with them.

It's certainly an extremely cynical move as Sid points out, but to be honest I don't think it's the worst idea from her perspective. As things stand she was looking almost certain to lose out to Macron. She probably still will, but she needed some kind of dramatic 'cat amongst the pigeons' move like this.

alihau41 wrote: it is certainly a new move by le chien, just one of many things she'll need to come up with in two weeks or order to sway more votes. fortunately the French voters fear the name 'le pen' more than the name 'National Front' as so won't have the blinds pulled over them.   as previously thought, JLM has come out and said that he doesn't back either of the run-off candidates. there's actually been quite a few protests across france (the norm over here) about these two being the final candidates! 'no to facism, no to capitalism' being the favoured slogan

Pathetic behaviour by Melenchon if he has declined to endorse Macron. It is reasons like this that I have such utter contempt for the hard left. It is in effective standing idly by and saying nothing. France have dodge a bullet with this joker, let's hope they now dodge a far bigger one in two weeks and put Macron into power.

Cabra Hoop wrote:   Why do you think its pathetic that a hard left politician would not endorse a pro globalization neo liberal former Rothschild banker ? The French electorate are left with a choice between the lesser of two evil candidates. And lets be honest Macron and his ilk are only pro-EU so they can have a plentiful supply of cheap workforce who they can exploit.

Simple. From his position he has a social responsibility to fight the sort of politics Le Pen proffers, and has 19% of the ears of French voters through which he can seek to enforce his opposition. By refusing to endorse a candidate it is entirely ideological which further discredits the hard left's claim to be "for the people". Honestly, I expect nothing less, as it is more or less always about the ideology, but this is genuinely damaging and dangerous, and pathetic. And conflating capitalism and far right politics is stupid.

Cabra Hoop wrote: Het-field wrote: Cabra Hoop wrote:   Why do you think its pathetic that a hard left politician would not endorse a pro globalization neo liberal former Rothschild banker ? The French electorate are left with a choice between the lesser of two evil candidates. And lets be honest Macron and his ilk are only pro-EU so they can have a plentiful supply of cheap workforce who they can exploit. Simple. From his position he has a social responsibility to fight the sort of politics Le Pen proffers, and has 19% of the ears of French voters through which he can seek to enforce his opposition. By refusing to endorse a candidate it is entirely ideological which further discredits the hard left's claim to be "for the people". Honestly, I expect nothing less, as it is more or less always about the ideology, but this is genuinely damaging and dangerous, and pathetic. And conflating capitalism and far right politics is stupid.   In the longer period Macron would be more damaging to the French left than Le Pen. As we can see in the major European democracies, once the neo-liberal globalists have gained power they have manipulated the public discourse to demonize all their opponents with the help of a soft left media, some of which they control. Once they have achieved that they introduce legislation to attack the poor and force wages down   From the perspective of the hard left and for them to be in a serious position to mount a challenge to regain power its preferable for Le Pen to win however unpalatable that is for them to accept. Short term pain for long term gain.

www.politico.eu/article/melenchon-asks-supporters-if-they-will-back-macron/amp/

Words fail me.

pre Madonna wrote: I can understand it, I can't real expect him to urge his supporters to vote Macron when I would spoil my own vote if I had to. I think this is a fair enough summary; <span style="font-family: "Guardian Text Egyptian Web", Georgia, serif;">“Our friends who want to vote Macron will vote Macron and those who want to vote blank will vote blank. That’s it,” Corbière said. “But nobody should vote FN.”</span> <span style="font-family: "Guardian Text Egyptian Web", Georgia, serif;"> </span> <span style="font-family: "Guardian Text Egyptian Web", Georgia, serif;">Interesting views here too;</span> <span style="color: rgb51, 51, 51; font-family: "Guardian Text Egyptian Web", Georgia, serif; font-size: medium;">http://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/26/death-of-the-french-left-why-voters-are-hesitating-over-macron </span>

But in 2002 he was willing to do it, and these are more drastic times as Le Pen is not guaranteed to be there to just make up the numbers. To me, this is leaving it to chance for ideological purposes, as Melenchon won't have to compromise his.