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SQUAD Greece (A) - Gibralter (H) June 2023

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Ray Houghton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wanderer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2023 at 6:38pm
Originally posted by 10 Box 10 Box wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by 10 Box 10 Box wrote:

Originally posted by Maccatacca Maccatacca wrote:

Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

We will have to wait and see regarding Cannon. Could be going the Grealish route and playing for U21 but not yet ready to commit and go to the senior team.


It's funny as many people think they're a top side, but in my opinion it has never been easier to get a cap for England.

They've capped lads from Leeds, Villa, West Ham, Brentford etc in recent years who wouldn't have been within an arses roar of the squad 15 years ago..

If I was Tom Cannon, banging in the goals at Championship level and was interested in playing for England I'd wait it out. 

For our sake I hope this doesn't turn into a saga.


If it looks like in any way it is going to be a saga he should be jettisoned intermediately.

Lets just hope turns up for the 21s in the meantime,

Why would you jettison a 20yo who may want to keep his options open? He was born in England, he's entitled to take his time over any decision on his international future. There would be no sense in backing the young lad into a corner, same goes for Hodge. The more involvement they have with a winning U21 side, the more likely they are to commit to us in the future imo. He has started less than 20 senior games at this point in his career, same goes for Hodge.

Because he is 20 years of age and has been in our set up for some time now. He is not a child. I would not be wasting any more time and resources on a player who is keeping his options open. It's embarrassing. We would be better invested in someone who is fully committed. 



Who says he's keeping his options open ??

It was quite clearly said if he had of been in Bristol last week he'd have had a chance of making the squad and that they wanted to have a look at him.

Hes on standby anyway and will go with the 21s if not the seniors 

Some lads absolutely love reading so deep into a selection choice 
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Ray Houghton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevin100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2023 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by Maccatacca Maccatacca wrote:

Originally posted by SeaSharp SeaSharp wrote:

You'd have to think Cannon would be waiting a while for any potential England call. Out of Kane, Wilson, Rashford, Toney, Watkins and Abraham, only Wilson is aged 30 or older. Then there's also Cameron Archer in the U21s who's got a good scoring record in the Championship and may find himself getting the odd opportunity in Europe for Villa next year. 

If his hearts not in for us then fair enough, but he would need to kick on massively to get near that England squad.

Alls he needs is a couple of premier league goals and Gareth Southgate will be on the phone.

If his first season in the championship is anything to go by then there's nothing to suggest he isn't capable of making the step up to the Premier league in the next 1-3 years.

It's funny really, England have gotten to euro finals and world cup semis in recent years, but realistically it is the worst England team in years on paper...

To get into the squad you only need to establish yourself as a key player at a fairly average side such as an Everton (pickford), West Ham (Rice), Brentford (Toney), Leeds (Phillips).

Back in the day they couldn't fit Lampard, Gerrard or Scholes into the same team.
 

In these players respective defence it is borderline impossible for young players to break into PL teams with the money involved. We have seen it with a few of our recent young talents who would be considered decent prospects by any countries standards (Ferguson,Bazunu,Collins). 

England are naturally gonna suffer from this too like we have done. Toney,Rice and Phillips would play for Champions League teams in any other League easily.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2023 at 8:33pm
Originally posted by 10 Box 10 Box wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by 10 Box 10 Box wrote:

Originally posted by Maccatacca Maccatacca wrote:

Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

We will have to wait and see regarding Cannon. Could be going the Grealish route and playing for U21 but not yet ready to commit and go to the senior team.


It's funny as many people think they're a top side, but in my opinion it has never been easier to get a cap for England.

They've capped lads from Leeds, Villa, West Ham, Brentford etc in recent years who wouldn't have been within an arses roar of the squad 15 years ago..

If I was Tom Cannon, banging in the goals at Championship level and was interested in playing for England I'd wait it out. 

For our sake I hope this doesn't turn into a saga.


If it looks like in any way it is going to be a saga he should be jettisoned intermediately.

Lets just hope turns up for the 21s in the meantime,

Why would you jettison a 20yo who may want to keep his options open? He was born in England, he's entitled to take his time over any decision on his international future. There would be no sense in backing the young lad into a corner, same goes for Hodge. The more involvement they have with a winning U21 side, the more likely they are to commit to us in the future imo. He has started less than 20 senior games at this point in his career, same goes for Hodge.

Because he is 20 years of age and has been in our set up for some time now. He is not a child. I would not be wasting any more time and resources on a player who is keeping his options open. It's embarrassing. We would be better invested in someone who is fully committed. 



As far as I am aware, he has one, maybe two U21 caps and has started less than 20 senior club games, perhaps a little patience wouldn't go amiss!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2023 at 9:43pm
He may well be fully committed. Just saying he may well also be keeping his options open. You can be sure that is what his agent will be whispering in his ear
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bandwagon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2023 at 9:51pm
Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

He may well be fully committed. Just saying he may well also be keeping his options open. You can be sure that is what his agent will be whispering in his ear


Sure playing in these 2 games alone wouldn't even cap tie him anyway
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2023 at 9:58pm
If he played even a minute against Gibraltar he'd be tied to Ireland for three years. It basically takes him out of contention for anyone else because no manager/country is going to go after a player they can't get until after the next world cup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bandwagon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2023 at 10:41pm
Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

If he played even a minute against Gibraltar he'd be tied to Ireland for three years. It basically takes him out of contention for anyone else because no manager/country is going to go after a player they can't get until after the next world cup.


Realistically he wouldn't be anywhere near contention for the next 3 years anyway so it wouldn't matter much
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2023 at 10:55pm
Originally posted by Bandwagon Bandwagon wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:


If he played even a minute against Gibraltar he'd be tied to Ireland for three years. It basically takes him out of contention for anyone else because no manager/country is going to go after a player they can't get until after the next world cup.


Realistically he wouldn't be anywhere near contention for the next 3 years anyway so it wouldn't matter much


It also prevents him from playing U21s with England. Which if he does decide to switch, not saying he will, but if there's a possibility it happens this summer imo. If I'm his agent I'm in his ear about switching now rather than later.

FA apparently want to replace Carsley with someone who'll eventually replace Southgate as England manager. I'm in Cannons ear about switching now to be the U21s starting striker and working with possibly the next England manager.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2023 at 11:48pm
Originally posted by Bandwagon Bandwagon wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

If he played even a minute against Gibraltar he'd be tied to Ireland for three years. It basically takes him out of contention for anyone else because no manager/country is going to go after a player they can't get until after the next world cup.


Realistically he wouldn't be anywhere near contention for the next 3 years anyway so it wouldn't matter much

I wouldn't say that's definitely true. It's not as difficult to get an England cap as people think (actually getting into their starting 11 is a different story, but getting a cap or two, particularly if you're a dual national, is much more possible). If he got in the Everton team next season and scored a few goals he'd get a cap quickly enough I think. Whereas if he gets even one competitive cap for Ireland it closes the door for three years, by which time he'll likely have been capped again after 21 (this coming winter) and be fully tied.

But there's another issue with English born players playing for Ireland that hasn't really been discussed on here yet. The authorities in England are currently looking to get a relaxation on post Brexit work permit rules in return for requiring clubs to play a certain percentage of English players - almost a bit like the three foreigners rule back in the 80s and 90s. 

This, while allowing them to bring in more high quality overseas imports at a younger age, is also potentially going to limit the numbers of non-English players in every club squad. It's a lose/lose for us. It will also lead to agents of even English born players who are nowhere near England international standard being told not to switch to Ireland, Wales, Jamaica or wherever else. Not because they're ever likely to play for England, but because it could affect their value by turning them into a non-English player at club level. 

So, for instance, someone like Josh Cullen who was nowhere near an English squad when he was capped for Ireland could be advised against committing to us as it could have a negative impact on his club prospects. Just something worth keeping an eye on.


Edited by You Tell Me - 01 Jun 2023 at 11:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SeaSharp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 12:13am
Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Originally posted by Bandwagon Bandwagon wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

If he played even a minute against Gibraltar he'd be tied to Ireland for three years. It basically takes him out of contention for anyone else because no manager/country is going to go after a player they can't get until after the next world cup.


Realistically he wouldn't be anywhere near contention for the next 3 years anyway so it wouldn't matter much

I wouldn't say that's definitely true. It's not as difficult to get an England cap as people think (actually getting into their starting 11 is a different story, but getting a cap or two, particularly if you're a dual national, is much more possible). If he got in the Everton team next season and scored a few goals he'd get a cap quickly enough I think. 
No he wouldn't. There's not a hope he'd get in the squad unless he found himself scoring 10/15 next year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doherty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 12:58am
Originally posted by Bandwagon Bandwagon wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

What about Mark Skyes? Eye for goal. Looked a decent player. 


...hes in the squad.

Oh sh1te cheers. Only had a quick scan when i wrote that. Bit of a hectic day. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 7:59am
Originally posted by SeaSharp SeaSharp wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Originally posted by Bandwagon Bandwagon wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

If he played even a minute against Gibraltar he'd be tied to Ireland for three years. It basically takes him out of contention for anyone else because no manager/country is going to go after a player they can't get until after the next world cup.


Realistically he wouldn't be anywhere near contention for the next 3 years anyway so it wouldn't matter much
 

I wouldn't say that's definitely true. It's not as difficult to get an England cap as people think (actually getting into their starting 11 is a different story, but getting a cap or two, particularly if you're a dual national, is much more possible). If he got in the Everton team next season and scored a few goals he'd get a cap quickly enough I think. 
No he wouldn't. There's not a hope he'd get in the squad unless he found himself scoring 10/15 next year.

If everton kept him and he gets a few goals at the start of the new season, could definitely see a situation where he wouldn't be far off a call up for them. And I'm sure Southgate has already been keeping an eye on this young everton lad scoring goals in the Championship who is currently with Ireland. Would actually be surprised if he hasn't been om the phone.

But the hope would be the Cannon is fully committed to us or will become fully committed 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fruice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 9:54am
I really can’t understand the Cannon situation.

Fair enough he hasn’t trained due to illness but the games are weeks away he has plenty of time to get ready.

We know he is a better finisher than some of our other options.

We all know Kenny is slow to bring new faces in so the best he was going to get was a substitute appearance.

I know I would much rather see him coming off the bench in Greece to get a goal rather than his team mate Parrot.

I just can’t see why Kenny does this to himself you have to have space in your squads for form players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevin100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 10:10am
Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

I really can’t understand the Cannon situation.

Fair enough he hasn’t trained due to illness but the games are weeks away he has plenty of time to get ready.

We know he is a better finisher than some of our other options.

We all know Kenny is slow to bring new faces in so the best he was going to get was a substitute appearance.

I know I would much rather see him coming off the bench in Greece to get a goal rather than his team mate Parrot.

I just can’t see why Kenny does this to himself you have to have space in your squads for form players.
 


Either Cannon has hinted politely that he’s not 100% ready to commit to the senior team yet. 

Or due to missing out on illness Kenny has decided the camp was needed to integrate him into the first team. 


If it’s the former fair enough keep him in the 21s if he wants to play there. 

If it’s the latter the lad has scored 8 in 20 for Preston of all clubs in his first year playing men’s football no easy feat for any striker then Kenny shouldn’t need a random end of season training camp in Bristol to justify his inclusion. Just nonsense tbh. 

I have no doubt the lad had tonsillitis not questioning his honesty. Either way he will be an asset to the 21s if he doesn’t get called
up to the seniors. 
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Kenny is either brain dead or Cannon doesn't love the EIRE. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 10:18am
Originally posted by kevin100 kevin100 wrote:

Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

I really can’t understand the Cannon situation.

Fair enough he hasn’t trained due to illness but the games are weeks away he has plenty of time to get ready

We know he is a better finisher than some of our other options.

We all know Kenny is slow to bring new faces in so the best he was going to get was a substitute appearance.

I know I would much rather see him coming off the bench in Greece to get a goal rather than his team mate Parrot.

I just can’t see why Kenny does this to himself you have to have space in your squads for form players.
 


Either Cannon has hinted politely that he’s not 100% ready to commit to the senior team yet. 

Or due to missing out on illness Kenny has decided the camp was needed to integrate him into the first team. 


If it’s the former fair enough keep him in the 21s if he wants to play there. 

If it’s the latter the lad has scored 8 in 20 for Preston of all clubs in his first year playing men’s football no easy feat for any striker then Kenny shouldn’t need a random end of season training camp in Bristol to justify his inclusion. Just nonsense tbh. 

I have no doubt the lad had tonsillitis not questioning his honesty. Either way he will be an asset to the 21s if he doesn’t get called
up to the seniors. 


Which doesn't really make any sense though because you've now got a longer training camp to integrate him in. Also not like you're dropping someone from the 25 man squad to bring him as it would have likely been a 26 man squad anyway had Chiedozie been fit.

Edited by J89 - 02 Jun 2023 at 10:20am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 10 Box Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 10:30am
Originally posted by kevin100 kevin100 wrote:

Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

I really can’t understand the Cannon situation.

Fair enough he hasn’t trained due to illness but the games are weeks away he has plenty of time to get ready.

We know he is a better finisher than some of our other options.

We all know Kenny is slow to bring new faces in so the best he was going to get was a substitute appearance.

I know I would much rather see him coming off the bench in Greece to get a goal rather than his team mate Parrot.

I just can’t see why Kenny does this to himself you have to have space in your squads for form players.
 


Either Cannon has hinted politely that he’s not 100% ready to commit to the senior team yet. 

Or due to missing out on illness Kenny has decided the camp was needed to integrate him into the first team. 


If it’s the former fair enough keep him in the 21s if he wants to play there. 

If it’s the latter the lad has scored 8 in 20 for Preston of all clubs in his first year playing men’s football no easy feat for any striker then Kenny shouldn’t need a random end of season training camp in Bristol to justify his inclusion. Just nonsense tbh. 

I have no doubt the lad had tonsillitis not questioning his honesty. Either way he will be an asset to the 21s if he doesn’t get called
up to the seniors. 

Either Cannon has hinted politely that he’s not 100% ready to commit to the senior team
 yet.

If this is the case (and there is nothing to say it is) I wouldn't have him near the 21s..give him the summer off to think about. We have all seen this movie before. Pick someone who is fully committed. 

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