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Ray Houghton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote darmack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 10:20am
Are so many European counries getting into the last 16 because there are more of them?

Was thinking that Uefa haven't gotten as many extra place as other federations.
So many south American counries it will be like a Copa America.
Maybe an extra 2 places or however many could have been up for grabs in an intercontinental game, or if your in a certain position by the end of qualifying in the zone goes down to fifa rankings.

Or they could have just left it the same.

ConfederationEligible FIFA membersSpots in 2026 finals
(including hosts and intercontinental playoff spots)
Percentage of members with spots in finalsSpots in 2022 finals
(excluding hosts, including intercontinental playoff spots)
Change in percentage of slot allocation
AFC46+1[a]8+1317.4%+0.7%4.577.8%+7.4%
CAF549+1316.7%+0.6%580.0%+6.7%
CONCACAF (hosts)356+13 (+13)17.1%+1.0% (+1.0%)3.571.4%+9.5% (+9.5%)
CONMEBOL106+1360.0%+3.3%4.533.3%+7.4%
OFC111+139.1%+3.0%0.5100%+66.7%
UEFA551629.1%1323.1%
Total211+14822.7%31 + 1 (hosts)50%
The dark side.. And the light
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Originally posted by newrynyuk newrynyuk wrote:

So rather than more African and Asian teams embarrassing themselves in an expanded World Cup, you'd rather see more European teams embarrassing themselves in an expanded World Cup instead?

Put it this way; how do you think Ireland would be doing in this World Cup against Morocco or Japan?

UEFA/Europe without doubt should be getting more places for the next World Cup.

This year 8 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2018 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2014 6 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2010 6 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2006 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2002 9 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 1998 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.

That’s over 50% of European teams in the last 16 over the past 24 years with European sides winning 5 out of 6 of those World Cups.
Do you agree with teh same logic for Champions League? 4 English teams get in the last 16 every year, so they should have 8 of the 32 group stage teams? That's what you're saying should happen for WC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by darmack darmack wrote:

Are so many European counries getting into the last 16 because there are more of them?

Was thinking that Uefa haven't gotten as many extra place as other federations.
So many south American counries it will be like a Copa America.
Maybe an extra 2 places or however many could have been up for grabs in an intercontinental game, or if your in a certain position by the end of qualifying in the zone goes down to fifa rankings.

Or they could have just left it the same.

ConfederationEligible FIFA membersSpots in 2026 finals
(including hosts and intercontinental playoff spots)
Percentage of members with spots in finalsSpots in 2022 finals
(excluding hosts, including intercontinental playoff spots)
Change in percentage of slot allocation
AFC46+1[a]8+1317.4%+0.7%4.577.8%+7.4%
CAF549+1316.7%+0.6%580.0%+6.7%
CONCACAF (hosts)356+13 (+13)17.1%+1.0% (+1.0%)3.571.4%+9.5% (+9.5%)
CONMEBOL106+1360.0%+3.3%4.533.3%+7.4%
OFC111+139.1%+3.0%0.5100%+66.7%
UEFA551629.1%1323.1%
Total211+14822.7%31 + 1 (hosts)50%
The point of expanding the tournament is to let more teams their chance of getting in, like China had in 2014, North Korea in 2010, Trinidad in 2006 etc. Expanding it isn't about changing who wins it, the best team will still win.

The challenge of the World Cup is to beat teams with all different styles of football, so if they're going to 48 (which I don't agree with), they're doing it the right way IMO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrendanD88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Originally posted by newrynyuk newrynyuk wrote:

So rather than more African and Asian teams embarrassing themselves in an expanded World Cup, you'd rather see more European teams embarrassing themselves in an expanded World Cup instead?

Put it this way; how do you think Ireland would be doing in this World Cup against Morocco or Japan?

UEFA/Europe without doubt should be getting more places for the next World Cup.

This year 8 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2018 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2014 6 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2010 6 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2006 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2002 9 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 1998 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.

That’s over 50% of European teams in the last 16 over the past 24 years with European sides winning 5 out of 6 of those World Cups.
Do you agree with teh same logic for Champions League? 4 English teams get in the last 16 every year, so they should have 8 of the 32 group stage teams? That's what you're saying should happen for WC

Where did I say UEFA should get over 50% of the spots for the World Cup? It’s not unreasonable to suggest more places should be accommodated for European sides, even if that means they have to face play offs against teams from other confederations.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 2:22pm
Originally posted by darmack darmack wrote:

Are so many European countries getting into the last 16 because there are more of them?

Was thinking that Uefa haven't gotten as many extra place as other federations.
So many south American counries it will be like a Copa America.
Maybe an extra 2 places or however many could have been up for grabs in an intercontinental game, or if your in a certain position by the end of qualifying in the zone goes down to fifa rankings.

Or they could have just left it the same.

ConfederationEligible FIFA membersSpots in 2026 finals
(including hosts and intercontinental playoff spots)
Percentage of members with spots in finalsSpots in 2022 finals
(excluding hosts, including intercontinental playoff spots)
Change in percentage of slot allocation
AFC46+1[a]8+1317.4%+0.7%4.577.8%+7.4%
CAF549+1316.7%+0.6%580.0%+6.7%
CONCACAF (hosts)356+13 (+13)17.1%+1.0% (+1.0%)3.571.4%+9.5% (+9.5%)
CONMEBOL106+1360.0%+3.3%4.533.3%+7.4%
OFC111+139.1%+3.0%0.5100%+66.7%
UEFA551629.1%1323.1%
Total211+14822.7%31 + 1 (hosts)50%

Simple answer - no. Yet again, even taking it as a percentage of qualifiers, Europe has over performed compared to everyone else. And that's even with a couple of big hitters messing up and of course the European champions not even qualifying. 

Number of qualifiers for the last 16 for each confederation, as a percentage of tournament qualification spots:

Europe 8 from 13 61.5%
S America 2 from 4 50%
Asia 3 from 6 50%
Africa 2 from 5 40%
N America 1 from 4 25% 

Even allowing for the need to spread the places around the world Europe should really have 20 qualification places in a 48 team tournament. That would still allow all the other confederations to get additional places compared to now while at the same time hopefully preventing substandard North American, Oceania and Asian teams from qualifying, which will almost certainly happen in 2026. If three or four of the 20 are given through intercontinental playoffs, then fair enough. But only having a third of the qualifiers for 2026 being from UEFA devalues the tournament sadly.

In better news it looks like they're moving towards 12 groups of 4 next time, rather than the ridiculous 16 groups of 3 idea that was in place until now. That mistake will likely be corrected next year now by FIFA.





Edited by You Tell Me - 03 Dec 2022 at 2:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by darmack darmack wrote:

Are so many European counries getting into the last 16 because there are more of them?

Was thinking that Uefa haven't gotten as many extra place as other federations.

It is pretty outrageous that Africa is getting another 3, possibly 4, spots when Europe is only getting an extra 3.

For if yoiu look at past African participation, their record is pretty crap i.e. with 49 participations, they have only ever had 11 teams get out of their group to the last 16, of which only 3 to date have got to the last 8 and none beyond that:

And if those are there best five teams, how much weaker must their second-rate teams be?

Originally posted by darmack darmack wrote:


So many south American counries it will be like a Copa America.
Maybe an extra 2 places or however many could have been up for grabs in an intercontinental game, or if your in a certain position by the end of qualifying in the zone goes down to fifa rankings.

I'm also not at all sure about giving South America an extra couple of teams, either. For if you look past perennial qualifiers Brazil and Argenina, they generally have one or two more from Columbia and Uruguay, maybe Ecuador or Chile who can put up a show, but that's it - three or four competitive teams in each finals.

Theres no way all six 2026 entrants will all be "on it" at the same time, and so be competitive in the finals. And beyond that, who does it leave?  Bolivia? Paraguay? Venezuela? Peru? CONMEBOL simply does not have the strength in depth to justify 6 entrants out of 10 members.

Originally posted by darmack darmack wrote:

Or they could have just left it the same.
Blasphemer!








Edited by Territorial - 03 Dec 2022 at 5:19pm
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Ray Houghton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bandwagon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 6:00pm
Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

The point of expanding the tournament is to let more teams their chance of getting in, like China had in 2014, North Korea in 2010, Trinidad in 2006 etc. Expanding it isn't about changing who wins it, the best team will still win.

The challenge of the World Cup is to beat teams with all different styles of football, so if they're going to 48 (which I don't agree with), they're doing it the right way IMO.


Expanding it is purely for money reasons. It has nothing to do with improving the game or the tournament, if anything it'll do the opposite.

With the new allocations its clear they're trying more or less assure the largest populated countries qualify every time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 9:32pm
Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Originally posted by newrynyuk newrynyuk wrote:

So rather than more African and Asian teams embarrassing themselves in an expanded World Cup, you'd rather see more European teams embarrassing themselves in an expanded World Cup instead?

Put it this way; how do you think Ireland would be doing in this World Cup against Morocco or Japan?

UEFA/Europe without doubt should be getting more places for the next World Cup.

This year 8 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2018 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2014 6 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2010 6 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2006 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2002 9 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 1998 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.

That’s over 50% of European teams in the last 16 over the past 24 years with European sides winning 5 out of 6 of those World Cups.
Do you agree with teh same logic for Champions League? 4 English teams get in the last 16 every year, so they should have 8 of the 32 group stage teams? That's what you're saying should happen for WC

Where did I say UEFA should get over 50% of the spots for the World Cup? It’s not unreasonable to suggest more places should be accommodated for European sides, even if that means they have to face play offs against teams from other confederations.  
You said they deserve more than 16, more than 16 is getting close to 24 (which is 50%)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 9:33pm
Originally posted by Bandwagon Bandwagon wrote:

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

The point of expanding the tournament is to let more teams their chance of getting in, like China had in 2014, North Korea in 2010, Trinidad in 2006 etc. Expanding it isn't about changing who wins it, the best team will still win.

The challenge of the World Cup is to beat teams with all different styles of football, so if they're going to 48 (which I don't agree with), they're doing it the right way IMO.


Expanding it is purely for money reasons. It has nothing to do with improving the game or the tournament, if anything it'll do the opposite.

With the new allocations its clear they're trying more or less assure the largest populated countries qualify every time.
Yeah they're hoping the countries with the biggest Tv audience is going to get in. They want to get in countries with large populations and an opportunity to build a strong domestic league
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 9:37pm
Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Originally posted by darmack darmack wrote:

Are so many European countries getting into the last 16 because there are more of them?

Was thinking that Uefa haven't gotten as many extra place as other federations.
So many south American counries it will be like a Copa America.
Maybe an extra 2 places or however many could have been up for grabs in an intercontinental game, or if your in a certain position by the end of qualifying in the zone goes down to fifa rankings.

Or they could have just left it the same.

ConfederationEligible FIFA membersSpots in 2026 finals
(including hosts and intercontinental playoff spots)
Percentage of members with spots in finalsSpots in 2022 finals
(excluding hosts, including intercontinental playoff spots)
Change in percentage of slot allocation
AFC46+1[a]8+1317.4%+0.7%4.577.8%+7.4%
CAF549+1316.7%+0.6%580.0%+6.7%
CONCACAF (hosts)356+13 (+13)17.1%+1.0% (+1.0%)3.571.4%+9.5% (+9.5%)
CONMEBOL106+1360.0%+3.3%4.533.3%+7.4%
OFC111+139.1%+3.0%0.5100%+66.7%
UEFA551629.1%1323.1%
Total211+14822.7%31 + 1 (hosts)50%

Simple answer - no. Yet again, even taking it as a percentage of qualifiers, Europe has over performed compared to everyone else. And that's even with a couple of big hitters messing up and of course the European champions not even qualifying. 

Number of qualifiers for the last 16 for each confederation, as a percentage of tournament qualification spots:

Europe 8 from 13 61.5%
S America 2 from 4 50%
Asia 3 from 6 50%
Africa 2 from 5 40%
N America 1 from 4 25% 

Even allowing for the need to spread the places around the world Europe should really have 20 qualification places in a 48 team tournament. That would still allow all the other confederations to get additional places compared to now while at the same time hopefully preventing substandard North American, Oceania and Asian teams from qualifying, which will almost certainly happen in 2026. If three or four of the 20 are given through intercontinental playoffs, then fair enough. But only having a third of the qualifiers for 2026 being from UEFA devalues the tournament sadly.

In better news it looks like they're moving towards 12 groups of 4 next time, rather than the ridiculous 16 groups of 3 idea that was in place until now. That mistake will likely be corrected next year now by FIFA.



20 teams this time would have got in 6 of.... Italy, Sweden, Ukraine, North Macedonia, Austria, Scotland, Czech, and Turkey. Bar Italy, I don't think any of the teams would bring anything more to the tournament than Egypt, Nigeria, Peru, New Zealand etc. None of those teams are getting to QF's anyway, so I prefer washing teams in the WC that I don't see every Nation League highlights show. 

I hate going to 48 teams, but I'd hate it more if it ends up being basically all the Euros teams.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrendanD88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 9:41pm
Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Originally posted by newrynyuk newrynyuk wrote:

So rather than more African and Asian teams embarrassing themselves in an expanded World Cup, you'd rather see more European teams embarrassing themselves in an expanded World Cup instead?

Put it this way; how do you think Ireland would be doing in this World Cup against Morocco or Japan?

UEFA/Europe without doubt should be getting more places for the next World Cup.

This year 8 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2018 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2014 6 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2010 6 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2006 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2002 9 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 1998 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.

That’s over 50% of European teams in the last 16 over the past 24 years with European sides winning 5 out of 6 of those World Cups.
Do you agree with teh same logic for Champions League? 4 English teams get in the last 16 every year, so they should have 8 of the 32 group stage teams? That's what you're saying should happen for WC

Where did I say UEFA should get over 50% of the spots for the World Cup? It’s not unreasonable to suggest more places should be accommodated for European sides, even if that means they have to face play offs against teams from other confederations.  
You said they deserve more than 16, more than 16 is getting close to 24 (which is 50%)

16 out of 48 teams is 33.3%, of course Europe deserve more than that, I didn’t say they deserve 24 spots.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maccatacca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 10:19pm
It's not even an argument, Europe deserves more spots. 

Japan and South Korea can beat rested Spains and Portugals all they like, one of the worst Irish teams of all time [on paper] was able to do that to Italy six years ago.

It's not that impressive. Most of the Euro teams who didn't progress to the last 16 were eliminated by other European teams, e.g. Switzerland, Belgium, Wales etc. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 10:37pm
Yes it's a nonsense, suggesting that New Zealand who are ranked outside the top 100 in the world deserve pretty much a guaranteed spot rather than giving more of a chance to Norway, Sweden or Ukraine is ridiculous really. 

Not to mention that the new format together with the allocation means the likes of Iraq, Panama, Jordan, Uzbekistan and other teams that simply aren't up to the standard are likely to qualify while quality teams in UEFA are left hoping for a decent draw to have any chance of qualification for even a 48 team tournament. 

It's insane what FIFA are doing - and it's all just politics, nothing to do with growing the game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote notpropaganda73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2022 at 10:14am
what about some ridiculously convoluted "AN Other" spots for all of us around the world not good enough to qualify via our own traditional means, something like that mad playoff competition for the women's world cup that we thankfully avoided by beating Scotland 

that way the likes of New Zealand and Peru can duke it out against Ukraine and Norway for the last couple spots 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nialler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2022 at 11:41am
Originally posted by notpropaganda73 notpropaganda73 wrote:

what about some ridiculously convoluted "AN Other" spots for all of us around the world not good enough to qualify via our own traditional means, something like that mad playoff competition for the women's world cup that we thankfully avoided by beating Scotland 

that way the likes of New Zealand and Peru can duke it out against Ukraine and Norway for the last couple spots 


This is the way to go. They should get playoff spots not outright places.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2022 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

They want to get in countries with large populations
China - 1.5bn
India - 1.4bn
Indonesia - 273m
Pakistan - 220m
Bangladesh - 165m
Ethiopia - 115m
Philippines - 110m
Vietnam - 97m
DR Congo - 86m
Tanzania - 60m
Myanmar - 54m

They'll be expanding the 2030 WC to 200 teams then, so. LOL

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

... an opportunity to build a strong domestic league
Did nothing for domestic leagues in Mexico (1970, 1986), USA (1994), South Africa (2010) or Russia (2018).
While even South Korea/Japan (2002) havent shown great progress domestically, considering how populous, wealthy and well-organised those countries are more generally.
And as for Qatar - every single one of their squad this year plays in the Qatari league, where they earn decent money.. And every one of them was sh*te.

Fact is, even if they spout this argument at regular intervals, I dont' think even the blazers at FIFA believe that hosting a World Cup creates a legacy for countries which don't have a strong footballing culture already.

Instead it's quite simply Infantino "buying" votes from the non-UEFA/CONMEBOL members by offering extra invites to the Big Party every four years.

And along with the 3 team group format, I predict (a ) expansion in 2026 will backfire badly, at least as regards the quality of matches, and (b ) Infantino won't give a stuff.


Edited by Territorial - 05 Dec 2022 at 1:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2022 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

They want to get in countries with large populations
China - 1.5bn
India - 1.4bn
Indonesia - 273m
Pakistan - 220m
Bangladesh - 165m
Ethiopia - 115m
Philippines - 110m
Vietnam - 97m
DR Congo - 86m
Tanzania - 60m
Myanmar - 54m

They'll be expanding the 2030 WC to 200 teams then, so. LOL

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

... an opportunity to build a strong domestic league
Did nothing for domestic leagues in Mexico (1970, 1986), USA (1994), South Africa (2010) or Russia (2018).
While even South Korea/Japan (2002) havent shown great progress domestically, considering how populous, wealthy and well-organised those countries are more generally.
And as for Qatar - every single one of their squad this year plays in the Qatari league, where they earn decent money.. And every one of them was sh*te.

Fact is, even if they spout this argument at regular intervals, I dont' think even the blazers at FIFA believe that hosting a World Cup creates a legacy for countries which don't have a strong footballing culture already.

Instead it's quite simply Infantino "buying" votes from the non-UEFA/CONMEBOL members by offering extra invites to the Big Party every four years.

And along with the 3 team group format, I predict (a ) expansion in 2026 will backfire badly, at least as regards the quality of matches, and (b ) Infantino won't give a stuff.
Each to their own, but I don't think football belongs to the established countries. Every team should have a chance to playat a World Cup. Euros going to 8 and World Cup to 24 in the 80's allowed Ireland to qualify, you don't think that had a legacy on the popularity on the game here?

Edited by Shedite - 05 Dec 2022 at 2:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. Snrub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2022 at 2:44pm
Can't wait for the 96 team World Cup in 2036.

Ireland have qualified for their first World Cup in 34 years and face off against Grenada, Solomon Islands & Djibouti in some massive Group S clashes!
"Here's Robbie Keane...... yeeeessss! That is no more than Ireland deserve!"
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