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Next Ireland Manager - Criteria

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Poll Question: Which category below will the new manager likely come from?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
9 [7.50%]
67 [55.83%]
2 [1.67%]
42 [35.00%]
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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Carsely approached the FAI a number of years ago about getting involved but funnily enough didn't hear back.

In what capacity?

Maybe it was a role he thought he could do from Birmingham, like eg Michael O'Neill managing NI while still based in Edinburgh?

Or maybe by then LCs family circumstamces had improved to allow him more time away from home?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bandwagon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Bandwagon Bandwagon wrote:

The clamour for Carsley on social media today and yesterday is boarder on embarrassing, hes an even bigger risk than Kennys appointment IMO.

Hes done very little to date and anyone backing him is blindly backing him based purely on what they've heard of him rather than what they've seen of him.
[/QUOTE]
He's exactly the profile of manager we should be looking for.
Quite right, Borussia.

Carsley was extremely highly thought of at Brentford, who have an excellent record in appointing managers, and after a promising spell as Caretaker Manager, the permanent job was offrered to him. However he declined only because he has a disabled son and he couldn't dedicate the time needed to do the job full-time, since it would take him away from his family in Birmingham for far too long.

Which is why he opted instead for working for Birmingham City, and then with the England under-age set-up, (St.George's Park is much nearer his home than Brentford),. And he is sufficiently well thought of with England for the FA to promote him to the (crucial) U-21 job after a year.

[QUOTE=Borussia]This isn't a recently held view for me - We should have had him coaching in our system years ago.
I doubt you'd have got him back then while his disabled son was still young. However the latter is an adult now, so Carsley may once more be on the market, possibly more so should Gareth Southgate quit the senior job. (We must assume Southgate also rates LC and gets on well with him).


This is exactly what Im talking about though, basing opinions purely on what you've heard of him rather than what you've seen.

I keep seeing the buzz phrases "highly thought of" "promising" "well regarded" "good track record at underage" etc.. etc..

But how many, if anyone thats advocated for him for the senior job has seen him actually manage in any capacity? The answer is very few, if any.

Like what kind of manager is he? How do his teams play? and so on. Again, the answer would be very few on here and on social media would be able to tell you one iota.

Managing at underage is a different kettle, especially with England and PL/Championship academies that have a wealth of talent to pick and chose from.

How would he bode with the limited resources and pool of players an Ireland manager has to chose from? Hes never been in that position before.

It just seems to me like a massive risk taking on someone even less experienced than Kenny.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Carsely approached the FAI a number of years ago about getting involved but funnily enough didn't hear back.

In what capacity?

Maybe it was a role he thought he could do from Birmingham, like eg Michael O'Neill managing NI while still based in Edinburgh?

Or maybe by then LCs family circumstamces had improved to allow him more time away from home?

It was when he was completing his coaching badges I believe. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doherty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by Bandwagon Bandwagon wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Bandwagon Bandwagon wrote:

The clamour for Carsley on social media today and yesterday is boarder on embarrassing, hes an even bigger risk than Kennys appointment IMO.

Hes done very little to date and anyone backing him is blindly backing him based purely on what they've heard of him rather than what they've seen of him.
[/QUOTE]
He's exactly the profile of manager we should be looking for.
Quite right, Borussia.

Carsley was extremely highly thought of at Brentford, who have an excellent record in appointing managers, and after a promising spell as Caretaker Manager, the permanent job was offrered to him. However he declined only because he has a disabled son and he couldn't dedicate the time needed to do the job full-time, since it would take him away from his family in Birmingham for far too long.

Which is why he opted instead for working for Birmingham City, and then with the England under-age set-up, (St.George's Park is much nearer his home than Brentford),. And he is sufficiently well thought of with England for the FA to promote him to the (crucial) U-21 job after a year.

[QUOTE=Borussia]This isn't a recently held view for me - We should have had him coaching in our system years ago.
I doubt you'd have got him back then while his disabled son was still young. However the latter is an adult now, so Carsley may once more be on the market, possibly more so should Gareth Southgate quit the senior job. (We must assume Southgate also rates LC and gets on well with him).


This is exactly what Im talking about though, basing opinions purely on what you've heard of him rather than what you've seen.

I keep seeing the buzz phrases "highly thought of" "promising" "well regarded" "good track record at underage" etc.. etc..

But how many, if anyone thats advocated for him for the senior job has seen him actually manage in any capacity? The answer is very few, if any.

Like what kind of manager is he? How do his teams play? and so on. Again, the answer would be very few on here and on social media would be able to tell you one iota.

Managing at underage is a different kettle, especially with England and PL/Championship academies that have a wealth of talent to pick and chose from.

How would he bode with the limited resources and pool of players an Ireland manager has to chose from? Hes never been in that position before.

It just seems to me like a massive risk taking on someone even less experienced than Kenny.

 

Absolutely bang on for me. I dont think any of us are saying he may not be a good manager. He could turn out to be one of our best who knows. He seems to be the 'in' name in the last week or so but for nonreal reason other than hes highly thought off. And lets be honest hes no more in the frame for the England job if Gareth left than any of us on here no matter what you read online.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by Bandwagon Bandwagon wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Bandwagon Bandwagon wrote:

The clamour for Carsley on social media today and yesterday is boarder on embarrassing, hes an even bigger risk than Kennys appointment IMO.

Hes done very little to date and anyone backing him is blindly backing him based purely on what they've heard of him rather than what they've seen of him.
[/QUOTE]
He's exactly the profile of manager we should be looking for.
Quite right, Borussia.

Carsley was extremely highly thought of at Brentford, who have an excellent record in appointing managers, and after a promising spell as Caretaker Manager, the permanent job was offrered to him. However he declined only because he has a disabled son and he couldn't dedicate the time needed to do the job full-time, since it would take him away from his family in Birmingham for far too long.

Which is why he opted instead for working for Birmingham City, and then with the England under-age set-up, (St.George's Park is much nearer his home than Brentford),. And he is sufficiently well thought of with England for the FA to promote him to the (crucial) U-21 job after a year.

[QUOTE=Borussia]This isn't a recently held view for me - We should have had him coaching in our system years ago.
I doubt you'd have got him back then while his disabled son was still young. However the latter is an adult now, so Carsley may once more be on the market, possibly more so should Gareth Southgate quit the senior job. (We must assume Southgate also rates LC and gets on well with him).


This is exactly what Im talking about though, basing opinions purely on what you've heard of him rather than what you've seen.

I keep seeing the buzz phrases "highly thought of" "promising" "well regarded" "good track record at underage" etc.. etc..

But how many, if anyone thats advocated for him for the senior job has seen him actually manage in any capacity? The answer is very few, if any.

Like what kind of manager is he? How do his teams play? and so on. Again, the answer would be very few on here and on social media would be able to tell you one iota.

Managing at underage is a different kettle, especially with England and PL/Championship academies that have a wealth of talent to pick and chose from.

How would he bode with the limited resources and pool of players an Ireland manager has to chose from? Hes never been in that position before.

It just seems to me like a massive risk taking on someone even less experienced than Kenny.

 

Absolutely bang on for me. I dont think any of us are saying he may not be a good manager. He could turn out to be one of our best who knows. He seems to be the 'in' name in the last week or so but for nonreal reason other than hes highly thought off. And lets be honest hes no more in the frame for the England job if Gareth left than any of us on here no matter what you read online.

He's only the "In" name to anybody not paying attention.
As far back as 2018 he was being talked up for his work underage with England. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote E2016 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 4:38pm
Theres no risk. How would it be a massive risk? Kenny has the bar on the floor. A fella off the street could take over and match his win percentage over the same amount of games.
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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by Bandwagon Bandwagon wrote:

This is exactly what Im talking about though, basing opinions purely on what you've heard of him rather than what you've seen.

Under Matthew Benham, Brentford have had a quite outstanding record in appointing managers in the last decade, including when promoting from within.

And even during the brief period when he was their Caretaker Manager, he immediately won the respect of the players (from a pretty low ebb) and won Manager of the Month within a few weeks of taking over.

As for Birmingham City, he did ok under Harry Redknapp and was then appoimnted Assistant to Steve Cotterill, only leaving them when Cotterill was sacked by their head-case owners.

As for England, ok the U-20;s coaching job is not a "big" oine, but in less than a year he got the U-21's job, which was quite a promotion and where he's done extremely well. In that job he deals with better and bigger "name" players than the ROI squad boasts, with all the hassle that that brings (Agents, Club Managers, media, egos etc). While this was all done (presumably) with the blessing of Southgate, who knows a thing or two about the role - he filled it himself, after all!

Oh, and as a player, LC notched over 500 senior games with a number of decent clubs., the majority in the PL.

So this is not what I am saying, it's what his CV says.

Originally posted by Bandwagon Bandwagon wrote:

It just seems to me like a massive risk taking on someone even less experienced than Kenny.
More - and better - experience than SK I'd say, though to be fair, none of it was ever in the LOI, nor can he point to a "glory year" (singular) with the mighty Dunfermline!

Anyhow, as an NI fan, I sincerely hope Carsley doesn't get the job! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrendanD88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 5:00pm
Lost 2-1 to Slovenia under 21s in his last game! I thought results were all that mattered?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote E2016 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Lost 2-1 to Slovenia under 21s in his last game! I thought results were all that mattered?

What's his win percentage?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KING-CON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 5:14pm
I'd be delighted if Lee Carsley was named the new manager. We don't have the money to pay a good established manager so we won't be getting one. Its that simple. 

Of course its risky but when you're paying relative peanuts, every appointment will be. 

I believe Carsley would command more respect off the players than Kenny given his career as a player and a coach to date. Those last 2 friendlies convinced me we are on a hiding to nothing with Kenny staying on for the next campaign. I'd expect Carsley to get better results out of the players at his disposal and as someone said above, he might be able to increase our playing pool immediately with his knowledge of the game and his approach to dual national players.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 5:24pm
Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Lost 2-1 to Slovenia under 21s in his last game! I thought results were all that mattered?

What's his win percentage?

Won 10 from 13.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrendanD88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 5:36pm
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Lost 2-1 to Slovenia under 21s in his last game! I thought results were all that mattered?

What's his win percentage?

Won 10 from 13.

With the players he has available to him he should be doing better surely! Failed to beat Slovenia in the two games they played, lost to Georgia and only beat Andorra 1-0.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dangere_here Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 5:47pm
Singled handedly cost us qualification for Euro 2000 as well don't forget. Sound chap, but we don't need that sort of stain on our bib.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strazdas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 8:55pm
Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Lost 2-1 to Slovenia under 21s in his last game! I thought results were all that mattered?

They had already qualified for the finals at that point - I wouldn't read anything into that result
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Cockade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 8:56pm
Bollocks. (Re the penultimate post ).

Edited by Green Cockade - 14 Dec 2022 at 8:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrendanD88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 9:07pm
Originally posted by Strazdas Strazdas wrote:

Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Lost 2-1 to Slovenia under 21s in his last game! I thought results were all that mattered?

They had already qualified for the finals at that point - I wouldn't read anything into that result

They could only draw with them first time round and also lost to Georgia.

They have Ryan Sessegnon, Conor Gallagher, Morgan Gibbs-White, James Garner, Jacob Ramsey, Harvey Elliott, Anthony Gordon and Emil Smith-Rowe who would all start for our senior team ffs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SeaSharp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 9:11pm
He doesn't have a fantastic record with that England u21s side. As some have said, a lot of that team would get into our seniors. Think this would be quite a large risk that could potentially go very very wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hotlips_Hoolahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 10:21pm
Aidy Boothroyd had a 64.6% win percentage as England U21 manager. Boothroyd for THE eire.
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