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notpropaganda73
Liam Brady
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Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 12:56pm |
Het-field wrote:
You have to beat your ‘schmuck’ teams if you want to qualify, especially if you are lower ranked and are more likely to be second place. It seemed like Kenny was moving towards that with the wins over Azerbaijan and Luxembourg, but I’m not sure that was not just a once off. The Nations League would suggest the possibility of dropping points in places comparable to Armenia. |
yeah that's essentially the problem, I think the good performances have been really really good, but there's no solidity to the team at all so if we're not playing well, it can fall apart so easily. There's an element to that of young players and players just playing at a lower level so they don't have that quality or experience, but really when it's such an obvious trend across his entire tenure, you have to look at the manager and coaching.
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You Tell Me
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 12:35pm |
John Nice wrote:
You Tell Me wrote:
John Nice wrote:
You Tell Me wrote:
We don't even need to play "hoofball" to be a more competent team. We just need to be professionally set up so that we're compact at the back and actually look like we have some kind of gameplan in possession. We do have the players for that.
I was watching Ecuador yesterday as one example. Okay, we know Qatar are sh*te, but Ecuador haven't conceded in about 6 games. They're tight at the back and when they get the ball they don't take all the pace out of the game. A few passes to get control of possession on the field and then they work it forward reasonably quickly to get on the front foot and create chances. It's far from hoofball though.
No doubt we'll see many other examples in the next few weeks of how international teams of a similar standard to us can be set up without taking all the pace out of the game with pointless lateral passes again and again. |
Sorry, but this is rubbish. Ecuador qualified from a South American group ahead of the likes of Chile and Colombia. They are at least a level above us, similar standard to us my hole! |
Similar standard of players, just better coached and set up. Which is the point I was making.
Their main forward is a 33 year old who failed at West Ham and Everton and has only found success at club level in the Mexican and Turkish leagues.
The rest of the squad is nothing to write home about - a few lads at Brighton and most of the rest play in Mexico, Ecuador or small to mid rank European clubs. |
We are sh*t! Our midfield consists of a decent Ch player, an average Ch player and a L1 player! We have 2 PL regulars at teams battling relegation who may or may not keep their places under new managers, a PL has been and a decent PL squad player. We would kill for a Caicedo or an experienced Striker with an intl record of 36 goals in 75 games! |
More evidence again today of what a fairly limited group of players can achieve when they're properly coached. But no doubt we'll continue to be told that we are sh*t and have no right to be doing any better than we currently are, and that no manager could get any more out of our players than Kenny is getting.
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Het-field
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King
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Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 12:24pm |
You have to beat your ‘schmuck’ teams if you want to qualify, especially if you are lower ranked and are more likely to be second place. It seemed like Kenny was moving towards that with the wins over Azerbaijan and Luxembourg, but I’m not sure that was not just a once off. The Nations League would suggest the possibility of dropping points in places comparable to Armenia.
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Trap junior
Robbie Keane
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Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 11:38am |
notpropaganda73 wrote:
I'm out on Kenny at this stage, the in-game management has been poor from the start and no signs of improvement and the inconsistency/soft goals are just a feature of our play rather than something you can wash the managers hands of.
I think he's done good work bringing in young lads and trying to change the mindset and conversation around the national team. We've also played some of the best stuff in years under him, but also some of the worst.
I don't have a list of better candidates and I'm not in a particular rush to see him gone as I think this qualifying group is an awful place to try and cut your cloth, I also don't particularly trust the FAI to get the next appointment right either so I'm hesitant to really clamour for Kenny's sacking, at least he is doing some of the right things in terms of player personnel and his positivity, but overall I don't think he's up to international standard.
Saying all that, it wouldn't surprise me to get results at home and/or away to both France and Netherlands in this group under Kenny. But we are just as likely to lose or scrape a draw to Gibraltar, and that trend hasn't changed.
And I'd be one of the "Kenny cultists" that some like to throw about on this forum |
100%
I wouldn't be surprised if we play well against France and get a draw then go to Greece, play abysmal and be beaten. I also wouldn't be at all confident of taking 6 points from Gibraltar.
Under past managers you would be reasonably confident we would pick up maximum points against the schmuck teams.
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Pied Piper to: Baldrick, Brendan 88, 9Fingers, Borussia and more...
97.6% chance this post will be replied to by Baldrick (source: PWC)
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Fozz
Liam Brady
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Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 11:06am |
notpropaganda73 wrote:
I'm out on Kenny at this stage, the in-game management has been poor from the start and no signs of improvement and the inconsistency/soft goals are just a feature of our play rather than something you can wash the managers hands of.
I think he's done good work bringing in young lads and trying to change the mindset and conversation around the national team. We've also played some of the best stuff in years under him, but also some of the worst.
I don't have a list of better candidates and I'm not in a particular rush to see him gone as I think this qualifying group is an awful place to try and cut your cloth, I also don't particularly trust the FAI to get the next appointment right either so I'm hesitant to really clamour for Kenny's sacking, at least he is doing some of the right things in terms of player personnel and his positivity, but overall I don't think he's up to international standard.
Saying all that, it wouldn't surprise me to get results at home and/or away to both France and Netherlands in this group under Kenny. But we are just as likely to lose or scrape a draw to Gibraltar, and that trend hasn't changed.
And I'd be one of the "Kenny cultists" that some like to throw about on this forum |
Save me writing my own...I'll just agree with all of this
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notpropaganda73
Liam Brady
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Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 10:56am |
I'm out on Kenny at this stage, the in-game management has been poor from the start and no signs of improvement and the inconsistency/soft goals are just a feature of our play rather than something you can wash the managers hands of.
I think he's done good work bringing in young lads and trying to change the mindset and conversation around the national team. We've also played some of the best stuff in years under him, but also some of the worst.
I don't have a list of better candidates and I'm not in a particular rush to see him gone as I think this qualifying group is an awful place to try and cut your cloth, I also don't particularly trust the FAI to get the next appointment right either so I'm hesitant to really clamour for Kenny's sacking, at least he is doing some of the right things in terms of player personnel and his positivity, but overall I don't think he's up to international standard.
Saying all that, it wouldn't surprise me to get results at home and/or away to both France and Netherlands in this group under Kenny. But we are just as likely to lose or scrape a draw to Gibraltar, and that trend hasn't changed.
And I'd be one of the "Kenny cultists" that some like to throw about on this forum
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9fingers
Paul McGrath
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Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 10:39am |
MayoMark wrote:
Badgersboys9 wrote:
J89 wrote:
You Tell Me wrote:
Kenny trying to get his win rate up again. Cullen, Hendrick and Browne to start in midfield in that one. |
Or you know there's qualifiers on so only a couple of teams available and there's a big Latvian population here. |
Or Latvia approached the FAI given they play Wales in a qualifier a week after. |
I heard it was the league of Ireland fans pushing this one |
Yeah Dundalk want a look at their centre half, it’s a fair shout imo
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MayoMark
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The NEW angrier Freewheeler
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Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 10:38am |
Badgersboys9 wrote:
J89 wrote:
You Tell Me wrote:
Kenny trying to get his win rate up again. Cullen, Hendrick and Browne to start in midfield in that one. |
Or you know there's qualifiers on so only a couple of teams available and there's a big Latvian population here. |
Or Latvia approached the FAI given they play Wales in a qualifier a week after. |
I heard it was the league of Ireland fans pushing this one
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They finally did it man... They killed my f**kin' car...
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Badgersboys9
Ray Houghton
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Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 10:14am |
J89 wrote:
You Tell Me wrote:
Kenny trying to get his win rate up again. Cullen, Hendrick and Browne to start in midfield in that one. |
Or you know there's qualifiers on so only a couple of teams available and there's a big Latvian population here. |
Or Latvia approached the FAI given they play Wales in a qualifier a week after.
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J89
Ray Houghton
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Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 10:00am |
You Tell Me wrote:
Kenny trying to get his win rate up again. Cullen, Hendrick and Browne to start in midfield in that one. | Or you know there's qualifiers on so only a couple of teams available and there's a big Latvian population here.
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Jimmykeno
Phil Babb
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Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 9:52am |
Terzino wrote:
Kenny doesn't get his support from League of Ireland fanatics.
He is given extra leeway by what has gone before - Ireland's descent into the depths of O'Neill's unique brand of anti-football - and also by the limitations of the current crop of players.
The comparison with Staunton is a nonsense, as he had a better group to select from. He barely beat San Marino and was hockeyed by Cyprus.
Kenny has also survived because his team sporadically teases the public with some excellent football. Some of the goals we have scored during his time have been the best in decades. The home performance against Scotland is about as good as it can get from an Ireland team.
And that is the annoying part of all this. There is never any consistency in performance. Sometimes it's good and others it's entirely flat, and for no apparent reason.
We concede the same types of goals - Norway's 2nd was very similar to Ukraine's goal in Dublin. Malta almost scored a replica of Ukraine's goal against us in Poland. Lots of long-range goals and goals immediately after half-time.
The game against Malta was as bad as his very first game against Bulgaria. Just passing the ball for the sake of passing.
During his time, we have made some progress, but it's very inconsistent, but we have lost our strengths - such as a strong defence and never-say-die attitude.
At this stage I think we need a committee running the team.
Kenny - trying to get us to play more ball. McCarthy - to get us up for the occasion, especially at home. Trapattoni - for his great away record. O'Neill - for his ability to get a wins against better opponents. |
some of the best points i have seen on the situation
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You Tell Me
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 8:54am |
Kenny trying to get his win rate up again. Cullen, Hendrick and Browne to start in midfield in that one.
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Badgersboys9
Ray Houghton
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Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 8:49am |
Seemly lined up to play Latvia in a March friendly before the France game.
Edited by Badgersboys9 - 22 Nov 2022 at 8:49am
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Baldrick
Robbie Keane
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Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 8:04am |
Roberto_Carlow wrote:
May be a good thing Kenny staying for next year as no manager is getting us out of that group. Can't even see how you start to lay foundations against the Dutch and the French either.
When is his contract up? |
Of course no manager is getting us out of the group. We have a team of mostly championship players with the odd premier league player and league one too. We are probably 4th team in the group on ability and Feic all champions league experience in the team and not much europa league either. What Martin I Neill used to say about the squad when he was manager is all true now. Manager should still not say it but fans can. Kenny is not getting us to out perform our abilities currently and that is the issue. We are just about playing on par to our talents which are low.
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AKA pedantic kunt
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Roberto_Carlow
Liam Brady
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Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 7:52am |
May be a good thing Kenny staying for next year as no manager is getting us out of that group. Can't even see how you start to lay foundations against the Dutch and the French either.
When is his contract up?
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The Huntacha
Roy Keane
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Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 5:06am |
Trap junior wrote:
Here's another fact. How many Irish born managers have managed at a decent level in any league worldwide?
David O'Leary was the last and I can barely think of anyone else. We cant even produce managers never mind players.
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To be pedantic, O'Leary was born in London.
2022 was a really sh*t year. There was serious optimism after last October & Novembers results, which carried into a decent performance & result against Belgium (without Lukaku & De Bruyne. Not including Hazard in that because he'll be non-existent at the WC too). The NL campaign was a shambles really when you look at it as a whole. He's been too naive in his statements at times, especially with the topping the group thing. I don't understand why any manager would say that without knowing who is in your group.
The Euros draw was a disaster. Worst possible pot 2 and pot 4 teams. I think most people were happy to sacrifice the last 2 tournaments in the hope that we'd qualify with a young team which would have gained a lot of experience, but that looks unlikely to happen now.
It pains me to say it but at the moment, we would add nothing to any major tournament, apart from our support. Senegal were a completely average team, but even their subs play at a far higher level than our starters bar Collins & Bazunu (not including Coleman these days). The Netherlands look ordinary enough for a pot 1 team, but they're still far superior to us in every area.
Not to excuse any mistakes Kenny has made, and there have been more than a few, but our playing pool is so poor it's very hard to see any reason for optimism.
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The Huntacha
Roy Keane
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Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 4:56am |
B6 6HE wrote:
A point was made in 2020 on here about accents.
An Irish , especially working class Dub, accent doesn't command the the kind of gravitas in a dressing room that a tough north of England accent commands.
Compare Kennys tone of voice to Big Jack. Whose voice commands attention?
I know this sounds ridiculous but think about it.
Scottish, Geordie, Manc/Northern accents have a deep commanding tone.
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Welcome back Sid.
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Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 2:36am |
Trap junior wrote:
bundy wrote:
Trap - had a plan
Martin O’Neill - had a plan
Mick McCarthy - had a very simple job to do and also had a plan.
People can bitch and moan all they want about the three previous managers but all of them got results and all of them made us competitive at the very minimum which is all we can ask for. The team now is no better and no worse than it was a few years ago. Martin O’Neill got us to the Euros with a finished Robbie Keane, Glenn Whelan and Daryl Murphy who had 20+ caps before he scored a goal. Martin lost the head at half time against Denmark in 2017 and that’s what people probably remember him most for.
Trap made us a very difficult to beat, dogged team which is exactly what you expect when it comes to Irish teams. The shambles in Poland probably sullies his reputation and peoples memories of his time with us but he was a bloody good manager. He got us to the Euros with players like Paul Green, Martin Rowlands and Liam Lawrence. Poland was a disaster but weren’t we unbeaten in 11 or 12 games before going out there? Like O’Neill, things ran out of steam and it ended with a whimper.
Now look at Kenny. You could rewind two years or fast forward two years and things would still be the same. People are giving out about Hendrick or Hourihane playing games which is fair enough right, but if these guys are going to play then play them from the start. Bringing them on midway through a game is absolute and total lunacy because neither of them have ever had or ever will have an impact off the bench. There is no plan with Kenny. It’s blatantly obvious the man has no clue what he’s doing. We’re 30 games into this shambles and there is nothing to take from his time over the team. No plan, no structure, nothing. Nothing will change between now and the Euro campaign kicking off and you can be sure nothing will change during it either.
What has gone on can’t be defended no matter what positive spin is put on it. We keep being told he has the team playing good football at least. He doesn’t. It’s a total myth. The football we’re playing isn’t good at all and anybody saying different is either just saying it for the sake of it or they haven’t a clue what good football is. All I hear is there’s no more “hoofball”. I tell you what, the Stoke team under Tony Pulis apparently played the most horrible football ever seen but do you know what? It wasn’t horrible at all, it was actually seriously impressive football that was played by that team. Stoke weren’t blessed with great or skilful players so Pulis got them playing a type of football that got get them results. A type of football that made away teams dread going to play them. He pinpointed their strengths and tailored their gameplan to suit the players he had. This is exactly what should be happening with Ireland and it isn’t. Stoke got results and no matter what way you slice it, that means it was good football to watch. They were a very impressive team to look at and if you appreciate football and appreciate intelligent managers and people then you appreciated that Stoke team. Kenny is making a fool of us all with this crap he has the players playing. |
Good post Ted |
Yep, good read.
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