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Ray Houghton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2022 at 6:09pm
Similar to Cashin they probably waited until the last minute to do his paperwork. Strong chance he's not yet eligible to play in competitive games for us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luis Amor Rodriguez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2022 at 6:20pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

I think throwing him straight in with the seniors would be jumping the gun though, there are plenty of other uncapped players ahead of him in the queue.

This was the same attitude management had vis a vis a young Grealish who was smashing it in League 1 at 18 for Notts County (could easily have been picked for an easy match at home v Gibralter) and Declan Rice after 5 PL games for West Ham (could easily have been picked for a handy game v Moldova).  

Also, the list of uncapped PL players ahead of him in the queue is: zero.  Norwich should be looking to be in the top-half of the Championship next year, and there aren't too many such uncapped players either. 

If you're good enough to play PL or top half of Championship, you're probably good enough for our squad, even taking age out of it. 

Would love to see maybe 2 or 3 of Springett, Smallbone, Adaramola and Festy (although don't want to be rewarding his recent attitude issues) in our senior squad for one or two of the upcoming NL games.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dalymount79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2022 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

I actually don't mind the development player idea, but I'm not sure I'd be giving the spot to Springett. I'd probably go with someone who is a better bet to make the seniors longer term, like Festy Ebosele or Tayo Adaramola. Both seem to be surplus to requirements for the Under 21s at present, so why not bring them in and give them the experience. They'd hopefully both jump at the chance.
half of our squad have been development players in the last 18 months.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dalymount79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2022 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

Some good points, but overall inaccurate in relation to Wales.  Yes, they have those very good players and generational players that you say. 

However, Wales' strength in depth has been massively improved by capping English-born players as teenagers.  

[Edited aside: Funnily enough, Wales have weirdly often had very good or "generational" players, such as Ryan Giggs, Ian Rush, or even Mark Hughes and Dean Saunders (a UK transfer record player in his day if I remember correctly), but the team was always let down by having too many league 1 level players in it.  So your Ryan Giggs players couldn't make much of a difference.  Now the Gareth Bales and Ramsey's are playing with low-level PL and top-half Championship players instead - and so the deep does not suffer from the lack of strength in depth]

A few examples in recent squads of English born teenagers capped at senior level by Wales who have added to their team and strength in depth, many of whom would start for us and all would be in our squads:

- Daniel James, formerly of Man U, now Leeds, loads of PL appearances

- Ethan Ampadu, who shockingly we missed out on despite his Dad playing for us - lots of PL appearances for someone his age.  Proved, ironically in games against our lads, that he is better than many of our players! 

- Chris Mepham - Bournemouth player, PL experience and back in PL again now (was 21 not a teenager when called up, but same point).

- Matondo - Bundesliga and Champions League football with Schalke, now with Cercle Brugge 

- Ben Woodburn - had a few years of very good form before falling off, but still a regular for Hearts and great potential - still on Liverpool's books who must rate him

- David Brooks - cracking player linked with Champions League clubs not so long ago before sadly falling ill. 

- Tyler Roberts - 100 games for Leeds, about half of them in the PL.

- Matthew Smith - an outstanding young player who didn't make it at Man City, but spent time in the Erdivisie and Championship.  Now rebuilding at MK Dons.

That's off the top of my head a list of English-born lads capped for Wales as teenagers who have improved their team and strength and depth and most would get into our 11 or at least squad, thus improving strength in depth. 

I think this illustrates there is a lot to be gained from getting lads like this involved at a senior level early enough. 

I'd love to see Kenny use the NL windows as an opportunity to do so.
Ampadu is Welsh so nothing shocking in missing out on him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luis Amor Rodriguez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2022 at 10:28pm

[/QUOTE]Ampadu is Welsh so nothing shocking in missing out on him.[/QUOTE]

Ampadu was born and raised in England (Exeter) to an Irish professional footballer Dad (of Ghanian heritage) and a Welsh Mum.  

Not born in Wales and never lived in Wales afaik.  So another talented English-born player capped by the Welsh in his early teenage years.  

Has proved a fantastic find for them.  And a loss for us, given his Dad's record for us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luis Amor Rodriguez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2022 at 11:20pm
Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:


Personally I'd like to see an u21 team that looks like the below just for the amount of ability in it and they all still qualify.

                           Bazunu 
        Omobamidele Collins Cashin
Ebosele                                            Bagan 

           Knight smallbone kilkenny

                       Idah   Parrott 

Subs
Ferguson
Springett 
Coventry 


That team would give our senior team a run for its money!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pauldaly1984 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2022 at 12:31am
did his dad not play a few under 21s
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bandwagon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2022 at 1:13am
Originally posted by Pauldaly1984 Pauldaly1984 wrote:

did his dad not play a few under 21s


Are you thinking of Anto Scully and his dad Tony?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2022 at 7:11am
Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:


Quote Ampadu is Welsh so nothing shocking in missing out on him.

Ampadu was born and raised in England (Exeter) to an Irish professional footballer Dad (of Ghanian heritage) and a Welsh Mum.  

Not born in Wales and never lived in Wales afaik.  So another talented English-born player capped by the Welsh in his early teenage years.  

Has proved a fantastic find for them.  And a loss for us, given his Dad's record for us.

Ampadu currently plays for Venezia, who are stone last in Serie A and heading for relegation. Last season he played for Sheffield United who finished bottom of the Premier League. The season before that he hardly got a kick for RB Leipzig and he has played a total of 10 minutes of league football for his parent club, Chelsea.

He's also a centre back - a position where we're absolutely stacked.

I don't think we have missed out on too much here to be honest, but the fact he has 30+ caps for Wales tells it's own story. They don't have the player depth to pick from that we do, that's why they're able to take a chance on non-Welsh lads like Ampadu when they're 17. Most will go the way of Ben Woodburn and others, spiraling down the divisions, a few will develop into middling players like Ampadu and they're just hoping they'll pull the next Gareth Bale out of somewhere, but that seems unlikely. 

Once Bale moves on Wales will go back to being a slightly better version of Northern Ireland, generally not qualifying for tournaments and trying to cap any half decent teenager that qualifies for them to tie them down to the team.


Edited by You Tell Me - 14 May 2022 at 7:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luis Amor Rodriguez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2022 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by Bandwagon Bandwagon wrote:

Originally posted by Pauldaly1984 Pauldaly1984 wrote:

did his dad not play a few under 21s


Are you thinking of Anto Scully and his dad Tony?

Both Scully and Ethan Ampadu have fathers who played for Ireland U21.  Kwame Ampadu played for Belvedere before going to Arsenal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luis Amor Rodriguez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2022 at 8:20pm
Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:


Quote Ampadu is Welsh so nothing shocking in missing out on him.

Ampadu was born and raised in England (Exeter) to an Irish professional footballer Dad (of Ghanian heritage) and a Welsh Mum.  

Not born in Wales and never lived in Wales afaik.  So another talented English-born player capped by the Welsh in his early teenage years.  

Has proved a fantastic find for them.  And a loss for us, given his Dad's record for us.

Ampadu currently plays for Venezia, who are stone last in Serie A and heading for relegation. Last season he played for Sheffield United who finished bottom of the Premier League. The season before that he hardly got a kick for RB Leipzig and he has played a total of 10 minutes of league football for his parent club, Chelsea.

He's also a centre back - a position where we're absolutely stacked.

I don't think we have missed out on too much here to be honest, but the fact he has 30+ caps for Wales tells it's own story. They don't have the player depth to pick from that we do, that's why they're able to take a chance on non-Welsh lads like Ampadu when they're 17. Most will go the way of Ben Woodburn and others, spiraling down the divisions, a few will develop into middling players like Ampadu and they're just hoping they'll pull the next Gareth Bale out of somewhere, but that seems unlikely. 

Once Bale moves on Wales will go back to being a slightly better version of Northern Ireland, generally not qualifying for tournaments and trying to cap any half decent teenager that qualifies for them to tie them down to the team.

Ampadu's a quality player and proved it when they hammered us 4-0 in Dublin.  

Can play defensive-mid very well and arguably better than Cullen (though a different type of player).  Certainly far further ahead in his career at his age than Cullen was at the same time. 

We could definitely have done with him. Spilt milk, though.

Agree generally re what happens when Bale moves on, but it kind of goes for us as well - without a Roy Keane or a Duff-Robbie Keane combo, we're fairly ordinary.  Us, Wales, NI, Scotland, just need one top-class player to build a team around - a Roy Keane, Gareth Bale, or dare I say it, Jack Grealish or Declan Rice.  Ooops - more spilt milk!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KingKenny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2022 at 10:00pm
Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

Ampadu's a quality player and proved it when they hammered us 4-0 in Dublin.  

Can play defensive-mid very well and arguably better than Cullen (though a different type of player).  Certainly far further ahead in his career at his age than Cullen was at the same time. 

We could definitely have done with him. Spilt milk, though.

Agree generally re what happens when Bale moves on, but it kind of goes for us as well - without a Roy Keane or a Duff-Robbie Keane combo, we're fairly ordinary.  Us, Wales, NI, Scotland, just need one top-class player to build a team around - a Roy Keane, Gareth Bale, or dare I say it, Jack Grealish or Declan Rice.  Ooops - more spilt milk!

Disagree on Ampadu as a DM. Has looked nothing more than average in Serie A this season. Does well out of possession but doesn't offer too much on it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hotlips_Hoolahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2022 at 10:13pm
Originally posted by KingKenny KingKenny wrote:

Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

Ampadu's a quality player and proved it when they hammered us 4-0 in Dublin.  

Can play defensive-mid very well and arguably better than Cullen (though a different type of player).  Certainly far further ahead in his career at his age than Cullen was at the same time. 

We could definitely have done with him. Spilt milk, though.

Agree generally re what happens when Bale moves on, but it kind of goes for us as well - without a Roy Keane or a Duff-Robbie Keane combo, we're fairly ordinary.  Us, Wales, NI, Scotland, just need one top-class player to build a team around - a Roy Keane, Gareth Bale, or dare I say it, Jack Grealish or Declan Rice.  Ooops - more spilt milk!

Disagree on Ampadu as a DM. Has looked nothing more than average in Serie A this season. Does well out of possession but doesn't offer too much on it

And he didn't want to play for Ireland. He wanted to play for Wales. What are we supposed to do, capture him and force him to play for us under duress?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2022 at 10:16pm
Originally posted by KingKenny KingKenny wrote:

Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

Ampadu's a quality player and proved it when they hammered us 4-0 in Dublin.  

Can play defensive-mid very well and arguably better than Cullen (though a different type of player).  Certainly far further ahead in his career at his age than Cullen was at the same time. 

We could definitely have done with him. Spilt milk, though.

Agree generally re what happens when Bale moves on, but it kind of goes for us as well - without a Roy Keane or a Duff-Robbie Keane combo, we're fairly ordinary.  Us, Wales, NI, Scotland, just need one top-class player to build a team around - a Roy Keane, Gareth Bale, or dare I say it, Jack Grealish or Declan Rice.  Ooops - more spilt milk!


Disagree on Ampadu as a DM. Has looked nothing more than average in Serie A this season. Does well out of possession but doesn't offer too much on it


Plus Robbie Savage would have looked quality in that 4-1 game with how bad we were set up for it under MON and he was retired about 7yrs at that stage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2022 at 10:22pm
Ampadu has been given a good shot at the Premier League, the Bundesliga and Serie A now and has looked no more than mediocre in any of them.

Currently being linked to a string of Championship clubs next season which says a lot about his career trajectory. Could easily go the same way as Ben Woodburn has (or Aaron Connolly seems to be going, to use an Irish example). Has been given a lot of chances at a higher level and hasn't kicked on.


Edited by You Tell Me - 14 May 2022 at 10:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greenie50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2022 at 2:48am
Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Similar to Cashin they probably waited until the last minute to do his paperwork. Strong chance he's not yet eligible to play in competitive games for us.


Apparently Cashins paperwork still isn't fully finished. I wouldn't be surprised if Springetts paperwork wasn't sorted, wasn't he previously only part of noncompetitive U18s?

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

I actually don't mind the development player idea, but I'm not sure I'd be giving the spot to Springett. I'd probably go with someone who is a better bet to make the seniors longer term, like Festy Ebosele or Tayo Adaramola. Both seem to be surplus to requirements for the Under 21s at present, so why not bring them in and give them the experience. They'd hopefully both jump at the chance.


Wouldn't say that at all.
Festy was named in the last U21s squad until he had his little issue.

Adaramola has been with the U19s, he'll certainly be moved up for the next U21s campaign. Possibly for the June games as a backup for Bagan. (Crawford used Lyons as backup for both LWB & RWB last camp).

I think that's been the best place for both of them for now.

But yeah, I don't think Springett warrants it either.

Originally posted by Dalymount79 Dalymount79 wrote:

half of our squad have been development players in the last 18 months.


Yeah kind of. I'd say Parrott in particular has held that "Development Player" spot since Kenny has come in.
Coventry was called up in March 2021 to train with the squad. Lee O'Connor & Omobamidele were called up to train last summer (though more because of injuries).

I think if anyone is to be called up next as a development case it should be Coventry (followed by Kilkenny once he gets playing regularly). Apparently the thinking around West Ham is Coventry has a higher ceiling than Cullen, which if true would be great for us and would certainly be worth investing time in given how light we are in that position.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hotlips_Hoolahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2022 at 9:18am
Surely it should be the other way around considering Coventry looked lost in the Championship for Peterborough whereas Kilkenny was able to step up pretty much straight away.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2022 at 9:28am
Should probably factor in the teams they were playing for though. Kilkenny would probably have struggled at Peterborough, Coventry would probably have looked good at Bournemouth. They're different kinds of midfielder but I don't think there's much between them at this point. Both should have solid careers.
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