| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Het-field 
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King
Joined: 08 Mar 2016
Status: Online
Points: 10645
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Posted: 9 hours 27 minutes ago at 12:20pm |
 OohAah... wrote:
I am more waiting on eire tbh. Was very quick to tell me I was uneducated about the Russian Economy, so I simply asked for a link to educate myself. I did in the meantime share 2 articles. Had a cup of coffee, got work done. |
Sorry OohAah, that wasn’t directed at you to be fair.
It was directed at the clown.
|
 |
OohAah...
Ray Houghton
Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Location: Ireland
Status: Online
Points: 3402
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 9 hours 33 minutes ago at 12:14pm |
|
I am more waiting on eire tbh. Was very quick to tell me I was uneducated about the Russian Economy, so I simply asked for a link to educate myself. I did in the meantime share 2 articles. Had a cup of coffee, got work done.
|
|
Het-field
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King
Joined: 08 Mar 2016
Status: Online
Points: 10645
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 9 hours 40 minutes ago at 12:07pm |
Mush Cassidys Donkey wrote:
tick tock tick tock tick tock |
Have you read back through the thread yet?
Tick tock tick tock tick tock.
|
|
Het-field
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King
Joined: 08 Mar 2016
Status: Online
Points: 10645
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 9 hours 56 minutes ago at 11:51am |
Mush Cassidys Donkey wrote:
tick tock tick tock tick tock |
Is that all you’ve got? If you want, read back through the thread.
|
|
Mush Cassidys Donkey
Kevin Kilbane
Joined: 16 Feb 2024
Status: Offline
Points: 357
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 9 hours 57 minutes ago at 11:50am |
|
tick tock tick tock tick tock
|
|
Het-field
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King
Joined: 08 Mar 2016
Status: Online
Points: 10645
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 hours 30 minutes ago at 11:17am |
OohAah... wrote:
i dont recall trying to limit debate on it, if you can find the post do share it.
|
I will when I can.
|
|
OohAah...
Ray Houghton
Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Location: Ireland
Status: Online
Points: 3402
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 hours 31 minutes ago at 11:16am |
i dont recall trying to limit debate on it, if you can find the post do share it.
|
|
Het-field
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King
Joined: 08 Mar 2016
Status: Online
Points: 10645
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 hours 33 minutes ago at 11:14am |
OohAah... wrote:
Het-field wrote:
OohAah... wrote:
Het-field wrote:
OohAah... wrote:
Het-field wrote:
I never said that. But like I have said, that would be akin to the Uk rolling into NI years after a UI has been achieved to “protect” loyalist pockets. |
Grand so can you accept that it was already a divided population? |
Seriously, stop with this ‘gotcha’ stuff. It’s a ludicrous way to try and debate. Especially when you already tried to limit the discussion around extents of influence at play. |
I know you like important sounding terms but Im at a loss here |
In short Russia has far more influence in Ukraine until the change in government, brought about by popular protest. They didn’t like the democratic will of the people so started invading, and inventing bogus reasons to invade. |
And America were right there at the time meddling. If they werent Id agree everything is Bogus. where did I try to limit discussion about this?
|
Couple of days ago. Russian ‘meddling’ was at an unbelievably higher scare (American was at best negligible). They lost control through popular protest, the population turned Westwards. Russia could have respected the democratic will of the Ukrainian public, but as Putin and his fanboys are no democrats they started invading and using the gaslighting tactics that they have employed in Moldova, and Georgia before.
|
|
OohAah...
Ray Houghton
Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Location: Ireland
Status: Online
Points: 3402
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 hours 35 minutes ago at 11:12am |
OohAah... wrote:
OohAah... wrote:
OohAah... wrote:
eireland wrote:
You literally are uneducated when you shared an article regarding Greece and Russian oil from almost a year ago. Greece have since been turning their back on them. And your measure of GDP is only a surface analysis. If you want the truth educate yourself. |
Can you share any links to back up your point? |
I can wait... |
Im so uneducated
|
Still waiting
|
|
OohAah...
Ray Houghton
Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Location: Ireland
Status: Online
Points: 3402
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 hours 37 minutes ago at 11:10am |
Het-field wrote:
OohAah... wrote:
Het-field wrote:
OohAah... wrote:
Het-field wrote:
I never said that. But like I have said, that would be akin to the Uk rolling into NI years after a UI has been achieved to “protect” loyalist pockets. |
Grand so can you accept that it was already a divided population? |
Seriously, stop with this ‘gotcha’ stuff. It’s a ludicrous way to try and debate. Especially when you already tried to limit the discussion around extents of influence at play. |
I know you like important sounding terms but Im at a loss here |
In short Russia has far more influence in Ukraine until the change in government, brought about by popular protest. They didn’t like the democratic will of the people so started invading, and inventing bogus reasons to invade. |
And America were right there at the time meddling. If they werent Id agree everything is Bogus. where did I try to limit discussion about this?
Edited by OohAah... - 10 hours 37 minutes ago at 11:10am
|
|
Het-field
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King
Joined: 08 Mar 2016
Status: Online
Points: 10645
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 hours 42 minutes ago at 11:05am |
OohAah... wrote:
Het-field wrote:
OohAah... wrote:
Het-field wrote:
I never said that. But like I have said, that would be akin to the Uk rolling into NI years after a UI has been achieved to “protect” loyalist pockets. |
Grand so can you accept that it was already a divided population? |
Seriously, stop with this ‘gotcha’ stuff. It’s a ludicrous way to try and debate. Especially when you already tried to limit the discussion around extents of influence at play. |
I know you like important sounding terms but Im at a loss here |
In short Russia has far more influence in Ukraine until the change in government, brought about by popular protest. They didn’t like the democratic will of the people so started invading, and inventing bogus reasons to invade.
|
|
OohAah...
Ray Houghton
Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Location: Ireland
Status: Online
Points: 3402
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 hours 45 minutes ago at 11:02am |
Het-field wrote:
OohAah... wrote:
Het-field wrote:
I never said that. But like I have said, that would be akin to the Uk rolling into NI years after a UI has been achieved to “protect” loyalist pockets. |
Grand so can you accept that it was already a divided population? |
Seriously, stop with this ‘gotcha’ stuff. It’s a ludicrous way to try and debate. Especially when you already tried to limit the discussion around extents of influence at play. |
I know you like important sounding terms but Im at a loss here
|
|
OohAah...
Ray Houghton
Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Location: Ireland
Status: Online
Points: 3402
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 hours 48 minutes ago at 10:59am |
OohAah... wrote:
OohAah... wrote:
eireland wrote:
You literally are uneducated when you shared an article regarding Greece and Russian oil from almost a year ago. Greece have since been turning their back on them. And your measure of GDP is only a surface analysis. If you want the truth educate yourself. |
Can you share any links to back up your point? |
I can wait... |
Im so uneducated
|
|
Het-field
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King
Joined: 08 Mar 2016
Status: Online
Points: 10645
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 hours 49 minutes ago at 10:58am |
OohAah... wrote:
Het-field wrote:
I never said that. But like I have said, that would be akin to the Uk rolling into NI years after a UI has been achieved to “protect” loyalist pockets. |
Grand so can you accept that it was already a divided population? |
Seriously, stop with this ‘gotcha’ stuff. It’s a ludicrous way to try and debate. Especially when you already tried to limit the discussion around extents of influence at play.
|
|
OohAah...
Ray Houghton
Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Location: Ireland
Status: Online
Points: 3402
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 hours 51 minutes ago at 10:56am |
OohAah... wrote:
eireland wrote:
You literally are uneducated when you shared an article regarding Greece and Russian oil from almost a year ago. Greece have since been turning their back on them. And your measure of GDP is only a surface analysis. If you want the truth educate yourself. |
Can you share any links to back up your point? |
I can wait...
|
|
OohAah...
Ray Houghton
Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Location: Ireland
Status: Online
Points: 3402
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 hours 51 minutes ago at 10:56am |
Het-field wrote:
I never said that. But like I have said, that would be akin to the Uk rolling into NI years after a UI has been achieved to “protect” loyalist pockets. |
Grand so can you accept that it was already a divided population?
|
|
Het-field
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King
Joined: 08 Mar 2016
Status: Online
Points: 10645
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 hours 53 minutes ago at 10:54am |
|
I never said that. But like I have said, that would be akin to the Uk rolling into NI years after a UI has been achieved to “protect” loyalist pockets.
|
|
OohAah...
Ray Houghton
Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Location: Ireland
Status: Online
Points: 3402
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 hours 54 minutes ago at 10:53am |
Het-field wrote:
OohAah... wrote:
Het-field wrote:
OohAah... wrote:
Het-field wrote:
OohAah... wrote:
Het-field wrote:
OohAah... wrote:
Het-field wrote:
OohAah... wrote:
Het-field wrote:
OohAah... wrote:
Het-field wrote:
OohAah... wrote:
Het-field wrote:
No it hasn’t achieved anything. Russia has not annexed Donbas, so the territory is still in Ukrainian hands, and the ‘de-nazification’ is a non point, as it was a non-point in the first place. |
Trning into a punch and judy show here.. OH yes He has, Oh no he hasnt!! |
And what about the recent additions to NATO and potential additions (Ukraine). And organisation that Putin apparently wanted to buffer? Guess why, his actions mean there will be up to 5 new members added in two years. No encroachment in east Ukraine, there would be no talk of Ukrainian membership in NATO. Putin’s calculator was messed on that one. |
Sorry Het but I'm.getting a real dohble think from you. You know full.well there was talk.of ukranian joining nato pre invasion. And much more than 5 nato countries were added before the recent bout. But there again as you said nothing of this has to do with nato.
Oh hang on
And what does nato mean? Buying American made weapons. Ah thay recurring character rears it's
|
No, I said that the NATO issue was a bogus justification from Russia, and I’m humouring the point in order to make a point about miscalculation. If Russia wanted to restrict NATO, they have failed, and now NATO is expanding further. Ukraine was ambivalent to NATO for many years, and now they are on the way to membership. Humouring the idea that Russia wanted NATO influence at arms length, they’ve managed to make it a very popular organisation instead. |
And theres the double think again. Either it was about NATO or its not. If you say it was never about NATO your now championing New NATO countries joining. So it was about NATO. In this case I will agree it was a miscalculation by Putin. But Russia still have taken a large part of Eastern Ukraine. That to me isnt a miscalcualtion. |
No. In humouring the point for the sake of the debate about miscalculation. If we take Putin at face value (which I don’t) he wanted no further NATO expansion. Instead he has got a bucket load of it, and in proximity to Russian borders.
The NATO issue was a fig-leaf, so doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. But the terms on which you are debating ‘miscalculation’ are on the basis of Putin’s alleged intent. Eastern Ukraine is still under Ukrainian control (albeit illegally occupied, in a way not far removed from Gaza), and as Eire has rightly pointed out, their economy is on a tenuous footing at best.
My belief is that he wanted to flex his military muscle to sever more of Ukraine, and was met with resistance. This has now resulted in an expanded NATO, the creation of a massive wedge between Russia and the West, and above all the death of countless citizens, the massive destruction of cities, and the subjugation of many. |
Define Ukranian Control please.
the Russian Economy is tenuous at best? Really? Remember the sanctions were meant to bring them to their knees? Their GDP has grown which not being an econmoist Ive always heard is the measure of an economy
I cant argue with a belief tbh. But if russia occupy a large part of eastern ukraine and this is what he publicly stated they were after I cant understand how he has miscacluclated this invasion |
East Ukraine is still internationally recognised as part of sovereign Ukraine. Occupation is illegal, and it isn’t control in any political sense, unless, like in Gaza the occupiers are brutally subjugating the population. Which is what Russia has been doing, while shelling people it claims to represent.
And you’re dodging some key miscalculations. The NATO point being one of them (and to repeat, I’m humouring that line of argument for the purposes of the debate). |
See above I accpeted the point
Internationally recognised I will dare say is not a fair definition. Want an example? From a much longer situation? Currently, 139 out of 193 UN member states recognise Palestine. |
And the way Palestine has been treated has been appalling, and the international community has failed them. It may not be a fair definition, but it’s the right approach and accurate as far as East Ukraine is concerned.
And you haven’t actually confronted the NATO point. You’ve tried another ‘gotcha’ which I have made clear falls flat as I’m humouring the point, as opposed to agreeing with it, or incorporating it.
|
Its an approach. Bu tlike everything on an internet forum its arguable.
Do you accept at all, that there is support by some in Eastern Ukraine to be part of the Russian Federation? |
There will always be pockets of support like that in various areas and regions of most countries. |
Grand. And as I said I accpeted the point about NATO being a miscalcualtion by Putin. |
What’s the miscalculation in relation to Russo-sympathetic people in east Ukraine? |
Your lack of acceptance that this war was raging since 2014 and that an ethnic russian population was disencfranchsied
|
|
Tweet
