| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
TooOldForThis 
Liam Brady
Joined: 07 Sep 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 1206
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Posted: 10 Dec 2021 at 1:48pm |
 Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
You Tell Me wrote:
Possibly being a bit stereotypical here but I think the dourness of the average Scottish male lends itself better to management and the the more friendly/easy going nature of the average Irish person is better suited to punditry. Possibly the Scottish influence in the north contributes to them being more suited to management also.
To be honest that might all just be bullsh*t. But it is notable that most of the more successful managers we have "produced" have either been English born or had strong English links - McCarthy, Hughton, Kinnear etc. Very few successful managers born and raised in the Republic of Ireland - Keane for a while but then it went wrong, similar story with O'Leary.
|
You have a point. The Scots (older ones anyway) have a more commanding accent, manner of speaking, and authority about them. There's a... gravitas about them that we lack. I think part of the reason we look at Roy Keane the way we do is because he's such an outlier. You look at most of our players, past and present, and we're a generally soft spoken, merry people. Probably the closest rival to Keane in terms of courting controversy is Eamon Dunphy, and he's an emotional wreck. |
Also strange that we have had a lot of Irish players captain big teams, so obviously leadership qualities, but don't translate to management positions.
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
Het-field
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King
Joined: 08 Mar 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 10754
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2021 at 2:10pm |
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
TooOldForThis wrote:
Het-field wrote:
HH makes an interesting point about former Irish players and the number that go into management. Two of our more recent national team managers have been managers first. It’s almost why, when Kenny was under pressure that the most touted name was Chris Hughton. When you drill down you see that he is one of the only candidates knocking around at a high level who played international football for us. Potentially, you could look to Aldo or Ronnie Whalan, but they have been out of the managerial side of the game for some time. |
Has anyone a plausible hypothesis on why NI produces managers at higher levels and we don't? |
Not just NI. Scotland has a similar population and their pool of players is roughly similar to ours in standard of quality. The amount of good to decent managers they produce is outstanding compared to us.
Lads like Denis Irwin, Niall Quinn and John O'Shea strike me as too nice and Richard Dunne strikes me as too passive. But you look at lads like Kenny Cunningham, Michael Doyle and Paddy McCarthy, for example, and think they'd have the qualities to go into the management side of things. Doyle's only just retired so maybe he will, but still, the lack of managers we produce is problematic when it comes to seeking out potential managerial candidates without falling back on old cloggers like Pulis, Bruce and Allardyce. |
The LOI seems to be where most Irish managers cut their teeth and continue on successful careers there either with one club or a number of them. Often times it seems not to translate cross channel, but I’m not sure that’s really an issue. The likes of Kerr, Kenny and King were for the most part LOI management.
|
|
Hotlips_Hoolahan
Jack Charlton
Joined: 04 Aug 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 6615
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2021 at 2:34pm |
Eoink21 wrote:
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
Eoink21 wrote:
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
So now it's a conspiracy and he can't refer to himself as Irish because there's a prejudice against Irish managers or something. Real tinpot stuff. And he can still be a fanatical Celtic supporter and move on when he's presented with a better financial opportunity, like virtually every single person making a living in the game, including the person who preceded him in the job. The two things don't contradict each other at all. If I was offered the choice of Ireland qualifying for a World Cup and a big bag of money - I'd take the money.
The man has a Protestant background anyway, like Graeme McDowell. It's entirely feasible he identifies as Northern Irish or British without it being denigrated as being for career reasons. |
I didn't say he can or can't do anything. There's definitely a piece whereby being British is better in the British press and being a young British manager (less young) gets you better exposure. There is utterly no doubt about that. It has nothing to do with him maybe being Irish - he could be Italian or Indonesian or Iraqi - that is not my point. You might pause and take a breath before you go running off drawing your own warped conclusions on posts accompanied by hypocritical "tinpot" accusations.
|
What are you on about, "maybe being Irish". He literally calls himself British in loads of links if you Google it. Then again, we're talking about someone who insisted Mipo Odubeko wanted to play for us on his old account until the evidence became irrefutable, and who thinks just because he was born in Dublin he identifies as Irish more than anything else like he's some hostage to his birthplace.
There is literally doubt about it. It's your opinion that being a British manager gets you better exposure. Stop acting like you have incontrovertible proof. Roy Keane was on the path to managing a big team but he sabotaged his own managerial career; Brian Barry-Murphy did a middling job at Rochdale and got hired by Man City off the back of it; Mick McCarthy and Chris Hughton are regularly hired by Championship clubs; our own current manager did abysmally when he was hired by a British club. The fact is most Irishmen who have been given a chance by British clubs in recent years as coaches or managers (Steve Staunton, Graham Kavanagh, Richie Foran, Joe Dunne, Robbie Keane) haven't been up to it. Our high profile players, for whatever reason, don't tend to go into management when they retire. It isn't because of discrimination or bias. It's because they'd rather go into punditry or write sh*te articles in the newspaper.
Let me guess. You're one of those quacks who thinks Grealish or Rice were converted into England players by evil agents and intermediaries who wanted to get rich off their backs, rather than it being a case of them being too good to play for us and using us as a platform to get recognition at club level and higher up the international ladder. |
You know what, I don't have any old account. If you feel the need to throw that crap around to support your point and set you up for a rambling tirade where you misconstrue and bend my point then that's fine.
Lads, is there any function which allows me to block this guy? |
I'm sure it's just a coincidence that you started posting the very same week the other crank who was obsessed with me got banned. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that you have the exact same syntax as this other poster. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that one of your first posts was a reply to a post I made about an eligible player. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that you are obsessed with my posts. If you're going to set up a new account (again) and try to go incognito, then make yourself less obvious.
I didn't misconstrue anything, either. Your post asserting some institutional bias against Irish managers was absolutely idiotic, and offensive when you consider the genuine prejudices black and Asian footballers face when looking for coaching positions.
|
|
Badgersboys9
Ray Houghton
Joined: 12 Oct 2019
Status: Offline
Points: 3535
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2021 at 3:11pm |
|
There is some amount of ignorance, misinformation and dogmatic posts on this thread. It's actually a bit amusing reading over it.
|
|
Hotlips_Hoolahan
Jack Charlton
Joined: 04 Aug 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 6615
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2021 at 3:44pm |
Jim Goodwin has been touted as a future Ireland manager. He's presided over 0 wins in 8 league games for St Mirren. He'd want to turn that around quickly if he wants to remain under consideration for them let alone us.
That's our lot in terms of UK based managers really. Daryl McMahon's in charge at Dag & Red in the National League and has done well at teams with limited resources.
|
|
Eoink21
Liam Brady
Joined: 30 Aug 2019
Status: Offline
Points: 1207
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2021 at 4:13pm |
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
Eoink21 wrote:
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
Eoink21 wrote:
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
So now it's a conspiracy and he can't refer to himself as Irish because there's a prejudice against Irish managers or something. Real tinpot stuff. And he can still be a fanatical Celtic supporter and move on when he's presented with a better financial opportunity, like virtually every single person making a living in the game, including the person who preceded him in the job. The two things don't contradict each other at all. If I was offered the choice of Ireland qualifying for a World Cup and a big bag of money - I'd take the money.
The man has a Protestant background anyway, like Graeme McDowell. It's entirely feasible he identifies as Northern Irish or British without it being denigrated as being for career reasons. |
I didn't say he can or can't do anything. There's definitely a piece whereby being British is better in the British press and being a young British manager (less young) gets you better exposure. There is utterly no doubt about that. It has nothing to do with him maybe being Irish - he could be Italian or Indonesian or Iraqi - that is not my point. You might pause and take a breath before you go running off drawing your own warped conclusions on posts accompanied by hypocritical "tinpot" accusations.
|
What are you on about, "maybe being Irish". He literally calls himself British in loads of links if you Google it. Then again, we're talking about someone who insisted Mipo Odubeko wanted to play for us on his old account until the evidence became irrefutable, and who thinks just because he was born in Dublin he identifies as Irish more than anything else like he's some hostage to his birthplace.
There is literally doubt about it. It's your opinion that being a British manager gets you better exposure. Stop acting like you have incontrovertible proof. Roy Keane was on the path to managing a big team but he sabotaged his own managerial career; Brian Barry-Murphy did a middling job at Rochdale and got hired by Man City off the back of it; Mick McCarthy and Chris Hughton are regularly hired by Championship clubs; our own current manager did abysmally when he was hired by a British club. The fact is most Irishmen who have been given a chance by British clubs in recent years as coaches or managers (Steve Staunton, Graham Kavanagh, Richie Foran, Joe Dunne, Robbie Keane) haven't been up to it. Our high profile players, for whatever reason, don't tend to go into management when they retire. It isn't because of discrimination or bias. It's because they'd rather go into punditry or write sh*te articles in the newspaper.
Let me guess. You're one of those quacks who thinks Grealish or Rice were converted into England players by evil agents and intermediaries who wanted to get rich off their backs, rather than it being a case of them being too good to play for us and using us as a platform to get recognition at club level and higher up the international ladder. |
You know what, I don't have any old account. If you feel the need to throw that crap around to support your point and set you up for a rambling tirade where you misconstrue and bend my point then that's fine.
Lads, is there any function which allows me to block this guy? |
I'm sure it's just a coincidence that you started posting the very same week the other crank who was obsessed with me got banned. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that you have the exact same syntax as this other poster. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that one of your first posts was a reply to a post I made about an eligible player. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that you are obsessed with my posts. If you're going to set up a new account (again) and try to go incognito, then make yourself less obvious.
I didn't misconstrue anything, either. Your post asserting some institutional bias against Irish managers was absolutely idiotic, and offensive when you consider the genuine prejudices black and Asian footballers face when looking for coaching positions. |
It is a co-incidence. The same poster you are referring to has messaged me privately with regards to your paranoia so they are still active. And I'm not comparing Irish managers to anyone. I'm comparing British managers to everyone else. You are intentionally misconstruing my point and now You're trying to impose racism on me now. You accusing someone else of something offensive is incredible. And, quite frankly, you're disturbing me. Please steer clear.
|
|
Hotlips_Hoolahan
Jack Charlton
Joined: 04 Aug 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 6615
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2021 at 4:27pm |
Eoink21 wrote:
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
Eoink21 wrote:
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
Eoink21 wrote:
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
So now it's a conspiracy and he can't refer to himself as Irish because there's a prejudice against Irish managers or something. Real tinpot stuff. And he can still be a fanatical Celtic supporter and move on when he's presented with a better financial opportunity, like virtually every single person making a living in the game, including the person who preceded him in the job. The two things don't contradict each other at all. If I was offered the choice of Ireland qualifying for a World Cup and a big bag of money - I'd take the money.
The man has a Protestant background anyway, like Graeme McDowell. It's entirely feasible he identifies as Northern Irish or British without it being denigrated as being for career reasons. |
I didn't say he can or can't do anything. There's definitely a piece whereby being British is better in the British press and being a young British manager (less young) gets you better exposure. There is utterly no doubt about that. It has nothing to do with him maybe being Irish - he could be Italian or Indonesian or Iraqi - that is not my point. You might pause and take a breath before you go running off drawing your own warped conclusions on posts accompanied by hypocritical "tinpot" accusations.
|
What are you on about, "maybe being Irish". He literally calls himself British in loads of links if you Google it. Then again, we're talking about someone who insisted Mipo Odubeko wanted to play for us on his old account until the evidence became irrefutable, and who thinks just because he was born in Dublin he identifies as Irish more than anything else like he's some hostage to his birthplace.
There is literally doubt about it. It's your opinion that being a British manager gets you better exposure. Stop acting like you have incontrovertible proof. Roy Keane was on the path to managing a big team but he sabotaged his own managerial career; Brian Barry-Murphy did a middling job at Rochdale and got hired by Man City off the back of it; Mick McCarthy and Chris Hughton are regularly hired by Championship clubs; our own current manager did abysmally when he was hired by a British club. The fact is most Irishmen who have been given a chance by British clubs in recent years as coaches or managers (Steve Staunton, Graham Kavanagh, Richie Foran, Joe Dunne, Robbie Keane) haven't been up to it. Our high profile players, for whatever reason, don't tend to go into management when they retire. It isn't because of discrimination or bias. It's because they'd rather go into punditry or write sh*te articles in the newspaper.
Let me guess. You're one of those quacks who thinks Grealish or Rice were converted into England players by evil agents and intermediaries who wanted to get rich off their backs, rather than it being a case of them being too good to play for us and using us as a platform to get recognition at club level and higher up the international ladder. |
You know what, I don't have any old account. If you feel the need to throw that crap around to support your point and set you up for a rambling tirade where you misconstrue and bend my point then that's fine.
Lads, is there any function which allows me to block this guy? |
I'm sure it's just a coincidence that you started posting the very same week the other crank who was obsessed with me got banned. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that you have the exact same syntax as this other poster. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that one of your first posts was a reply to a post I made about an eligible player. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that you are obsessed with my posts. If you're going to set up a new account (again) and try to go incognito, then make yourself less obvious.
I didn't misconstrue anything, either. Your post asserting some institutional bias against Irish managers was absolutely idiotic, and offensive when you consider the genuine prejudices black and Asian footballers face when looking for coaching positions. |
It is a co-incidence. The same poster you are referring to has messaged me privately with regards to your paranoia so they are still active. And I'm not comparing Irish managers to anyone. I'm comparing British managers to everyone else. You are intentionally misconstruing my point and now You're trying to impose racism on me now. You accusing someone else of something offensive is incredible. And, quite frankly, you're disturbing me. Please steer clear.
|
You claimed not be the poster I referred to before and then the moderators banned you for posting from the exact same IP address as him.
The implication of what you said is that Rodgers refers to himself as British because there is some kind of bias against Irish managers, which I proved is moronic in a post above.
Stop playing the victim. You keep wumming whenever you see my posts. Just ignore them if they trigger you so much.
And stop derailing the thread.
|
|
Hotlips_Hoolahan
Jack Charlton
Joined: 04 Aug 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 6615
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2021 at 5:24pm |
Can anyone with an Irish Times account copy and paste this?
Edited by Hotlips_Hoolahan - 10 Dec 2021 at 5:25pm
|
|
Sham157
Moderator Group
Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Location: Monaghan/Dublin
Status: Offline
Points: 33236
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2021 at 6:42pm |
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
Eoink21 wrote:
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
Eoink21 wrote:
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
Eoink21 wrote:
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
So now it's a conspiracy and he can't refer to himself as Irish because there's a prejudice against Irish managers or something. Real tinpot stuff. And he can still be a fanatical Celtic supporter and move on when he's presented with a better financial opportunity, like virtually every single person making a living in the game, including the person who preceded him in the job. The two things don't contradict each other at all. If I was offered the choice of Ireland qualifying for a World Cup and a big bag of money - I'd take the money.
The man has a Protestant background anyway, like Graeme McDowell. It's entirely feasible he identifies as Northern Irish or British without it being denigrated as being for career reasons. |
I didn't say he can or can't do anything. There's definitely a piece whereby being British is better in the British press and being a young British manager (less young) gets you better exposure. There is utterly no doubt about that. It has nothing to do with him maybe being Irish - he could be Italian or Indonesian or Iraqi - that is not my point. You might pause and take a breath before you go running off drawing your own warped conclusions on posts accompanied by hypocritical "tinpot" accusations.
|
What are you on about, "maybe being Irish". He literally calls himself British in loads of links if you Google it. Then again, we're talking about someone who insisted Mipo Odubeko wanted to play for us on his old account until the evidence became irrefutable, and who thinks just because he was born in Dublin he identifies as Irish more than anything else like he's some hostage to his birthplace.
There is literally doubt about it. It's your opinion that being a British manager gets you better exposure. Stop acting like you have incontrovertible proof. Roy Keane was on the path to managing a big team but he sabotaged his own managerial career; Brian Barry-Murphy did a middling job at Rochdale and got hired by Man City off the back of it; Mick McCarthy and Chris Hughton are regularly hired by Championship clubs; our own current manager did abysmally when he was hired by a British club. The fact is most Irishmen who have been given a chance by British clubs in recent years as coaches or managers (Steve Staunton, Graham Kavanagh, Richie Foran, Joe Dunne, Robbie Keane) haven't been up to it. Our high profile players, for whatever reason, don't tend to go into management when they retire. It isn't because of discrimination or bias. It's because they'd rather go into punditry or write sh*te articles in the newspaper.
Let me guess. You're one of those quacks who thinks Grealish or Rice were converted into England players by evil agents and intermediaries who wanted to get rich off their backs, rather than it being a case of them being too good to play for us and using us as a platform to get recognition at club level and higher up the international ladder. |
You know what, I don't have any old account. If you feel the need to throw that crap around to support your point and set you up for a rambling tirade where you misconstrue and bend my point then that's fine.
Lads, is there any function which allows me to block this guy? |
I'm sure it's just a coincidence that you started posting the very same week the other crank who was obsessed with me got banned. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that you have the exact same syntax as this other poster. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that one of your first posts was a reply to a post I made about an eligible player. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that you are obsessed with my posts. If you're going to set up a new account (again) and try to go incognito, then make yourself less obvious.
I didn't misconstrue anything, either. Your post asserting some institutional bias against Irish managers was absolutely idiotic, and offensive when you consider the genuine prejudices black and Asian footballers face when looking for coaching positions. |
It is a co-incidence. The same poster you are referring to has messaged me privately with regards to your paranoia so they are still active. And I'm not comparing Irish managers to anyone. I'm comparing British managers to everyone else. You are intentionally misconstruing my point and now You're trying to impose racism on me now. You accusing someone else of something offensive is incredible. And, quite frankly, you're disturbing me. Please steer clear.
|
You claimed not be the poster I referred to before and then the moderators banned you for posting from the exact same IP address as him.
The implication of what you said is that Rodgers refers to himself as British because there is some kind of bias against Irish managers, which I proved is moronic in a post above.
Stop playing the victim. You keep wumming whenever you see my posts. Just ignore them if they trigger you so much.
And stop derailing the thread.
|
@Hotlips, you were at the same thing with DM about FamilyGuy in the Sunderland thread despite you being told numerous times that FamilyGuy is well known to many on here. I have his number on my phone if you want it so you can ring him and ask him yourself. It is not your job to police members accounts on here, so refrain from labelling people.
|
|
Hotlips_Hoolahan
Jack Charlton
Joined: 04 Aug 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 6615
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2021 at 8:18pm |
Sham157 wrote:
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
Eoink21 wrote:
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
Eoink21 wrote:
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
Eoink21 wrote:
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
So now it's a conspiracy and he can't refer to himself as Irish because there's a prejudice against Irish managers or something. Real tinpot stuff. And he can still be a fanatical Celtic supporter and move on when he's presented with a better financial opportunity, like virtually every single person making a living in the game, including the person who preceded him in the job. The two things don't contradict each other at all. If I was offered the choice of Ireland qualifying for a World Cup and a big bag of money - I'd take the money.
The man has a Protestant background anyway, like Graeme McDowell. It's entirely feasible he identifies as Northern Irish or British without it being denigrated as being for career reasons. |
I didn't say he can or can't do anything. There's definitely a piece whereby being British is better in the British press and being a young British manager (less young) gets you better exposure. There is utterly no doubt about that. It has nothing to do with him maybe being Irish - he could be Italian or Indonesian or Iraqi - that is not my point. You might pause and take a breath before you go running off drawing your own warped conclusions on posts accompanied by hypocritical "tinpot" accusations.
|
What are you on about, "maybe being Irish". He literally calls himself British in loads of links if you Google it. Then again, we're talking about someone who insisted Mipo Odubeko wanted to play for us on his old account until the evidence became irrefutable, and who thinks just because he was born in Dublin he identifies as Irish more than anything else like he's some hostage to his birthplace.
There is literally doubt about it. It's your opinion that being a British manager gets you better exposure. Stop acting like you have incontrovertible proof. Roy Keane was on the path to managing a big team but he sabotaged his own managerial career; Brian Barry-Murphy did a middling job at Rochdale and got hired by Man City off the back of it; Mick McCarthy and Chris Hughton are regularly hired by Championship clubs; our own current manager did abysmally when he was hired by a British club. The fact is most Irishmen who have been given a chance by British clubs in recent years as coaches or managers (Steve Staunton, Graham Kavanagh, Richie Foran, Joe Dunne, Robbie Keane) haven't been up to it. Our high profile players, for whatever reason, don't tend to go into management when they retire. It isn't because of discrimination or bias. It's because they'd rather go into punditry or write sh*te articles in the newspaper.
Let me guess. You're one of those quacks who thinks Grealish or Rice were converted into England players by evil agents and intermediaries who wanted to get rich off their backs, rather than it being a case of them being too good to play for us and using us as a platform to get recognition at club level and higher up the international ladder. |
You know what, I don't have any old account. If you feel the need to throw that crap around to support your point and set you up for a rambling tirade where you misconstrue and bend my point then that's fine.
Lads, is there any function which allows me to block this guy? |
I'm sure it's just a coincidence that you started posting the very same week the other crank who was obsessed with me got banned. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that you have the exact same syntax as this other poster. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that one of your first posts was a reply to a post I made about an eligible player. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that you are obsessed with my posts. If you're going to set up a new account (again) and try to go incognito, then make yourself less obvious.
I didn't misconstrue anything, either. Your post asserting some institutional bias against Irish managers was absolutely idiotic, and offensive when you consider the genuine prejudices black and Asian footballers face when looking for coaching positions. |
It is a co-incidence. The same poster you are referring to has messaged me privately with regards to your paranoia so they are still active. And I'm not comparing Irish managers to anyone. I'm comparing British managers to everyone else. You are intentionally misconstruing my point and now You're trying to impose racism on me now. You accusing someone else of something offensive is incredible. And, quite frankly, you're disturbing me. Please steer clear.
|
You claimed not be the poster I referred to before and then the moderators banned you for posting from the exact same IP address as him.
The implication of what you said is that Rodgers refers to himself as British because there is some kind of bias against Irish managers, which I proved is moronic in a post above.
Stop playing the victim. You keep wumming whenever you see my posts. Just ignore them if they trigger you so much.
And stop derailing the thread.
|
@Hotlips, you were at the same thing with DM about FamilyGuy in the Sunderland thread despite you being told numerous times that FamilyGuy is well known to many on here. I have his number on my phone if you want it so you can ring him and ask him yourself. It is not your job to police members accounts on here, so refrain from labelling people. |
I'll be the first to admit I've been a dick to DM but my reaction when I heard that for the first time was the same as Bart Simpson's reaction when he he found out that Hugh Jass was a real person.
Edited by Hotlips_Hoolahan - 10 Dec 2021 at 8:19pm
|
|
Eoink21
Liam Brady
Joined: 30 Aug 2019
Status: Offline
Points: 1207
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2021 at 8:35pm |
Sham157 wrote:
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
Eoink21 wrote:
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
Eoink21 wrote:
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
Eoink21 wrote:
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
So now it's a conspiracy and he can't refer to himself as Irish because there's a prejudice against Irish managers or something. Real tinpot stuff. And he can still be a fanatical Celtic supporter and move on when he's presented with a better financial opportunity, like virtually every single person making a living in the game, including the person who preceded him in the job. The two things don't contradict each other at all. If I was offered the choice of Ireland qualifying for a World Cup and a big bag of money - I'd take the money.
The man has a Protestant background anyway, like Graeme McDowell. It's entirely feasible he identifies as Northern Irish or British without it being denigrated as being for career reasons. |
I didn't say he can or can't do anything. There's definitely a piece whereby being British is better in the British press and being a young British manager (less young) gets you better exposure. There is utterly no doubt about that. It has nothing to do with him maybe being Irish - he could be Italian or Indonesian or Iraqi - that is not my point. You might pause and take a breath before you go running off drawing your own warped conclusions on posts accompanied by hypocritical "tinpot" accusations.
|
What are you on about, "maybe being Irish". He literally calls himself British in loads of links if you Google it. Then again, we're talking about someone who insisted Mipo Odubeko wanted to play for us on his old account until the evidence became irrefutable, and who thinks just because he was born in Dublin he identifies as Irish more than anything else like he's some hostage to his birthplace.
There is literally doubt about it. It's your opinion that being a British manager gets you better exposure. Stop acting like you have incontrovertible proof. Roy Keane was on the path to managing a big team but he sabotaged his own managerial career; Brian Barry-Murphy did a middling job at Rochdale and got hired by Man City off the back of it; Mick McCarthy and Chris Hughton are regularly hired by Championship clubs; our own current manager did abysmally when he was hired by a British club. The fact is most Irishmen who have been given a chance by British clubs in recent years as coaches or managers (Steve Staunton, Graham Kavanagh, Richie Foran, Joe Dunne, Robbie Keane) haven't been up to it. Our high profile players, for whatever reason, don't tend to go into management when they retire. It isn't because of discrimination or bias. It's because they'd rather go into punditry or write sh*te articles in the newspaper.
Let me guess. You're one of those quacks who thinks Grealish or Rice were converted into England players by evil agents and intermediaries who wanted to get rich off their backs, rather than it being a case of them being too good to play for us and using us as a platform to get recognition at club level and higher up the international ladder. |
You know what, I don't have any old account. If you feel the need to throw that crap around to support your point and set you up for a rambling tirade where you misconstrue and bend my point then that's fine.
Lads, is there any function which allows me to block this guy? |
I'm sure it's just a coincidence that you started posting the very same week the other crank who was obsessed with me got banned. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that you have the exact same syntax as this other poster. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that one of your first posts was a reply to a post I made about an eligible player. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that you are obsessed with my posts. If you're going to set up a new account (again) and try to go incognito, then make yourself less obvious.
I didn't misconstrue anything, either. Your post asserting some institutional bias against Irish managers was absolutely idiotic, and offensive when you consider the genuine prejudices black and Asian footballers face when looking for coaching positions. |
It is a co-incidence. The same poster you are referring to has messaged me privately with regards to your paranoia so they are still active. And I'm not comparing Irish managers to anyone. I'm comparing British managers to everyone else. You are intentionally misconstruing my point and now You're trying to impose racism on me now. You accusing someone else of something offensive is incredible. And, quite frankly, you're disturbing me. Please steer clear.
|
You claimed not be the poster I referred to before and then the moderators banned you for posting from the exact same IP address as him.
The implication of what you said is that Rodgers refers to himself as British because there is some kind of bias against Irish managers, which I proved is moronic in a post above.
Stop playing the victim. You keep wumming whenever you see my posts. Just ignore them if they trigger you so much.
And stop derailing the thread.
|
@Hotlips, you were at the same thing with DM about FamilyGuy in the Sunderland thread despite you being told numerous times that FamilyGuy is well known to many on here. I have his number on my phone if you want it so you can ring him and ask him yourself. It is not your job to police members accounts on here, so refrain from labelling people. |
Thanks Sham. Happy to verify my authenticity by whatever means necessary too.
|
|
Hotlips_Hoolahan
Jack Charlton
Joined: 04 Aug 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 6615
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2021 at 8:53pm |
Eoink21 wrote:
Sham157 wrote:
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
Eoink21 wrote:
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
Eoink21 wrote:
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
Eoink21 wrote:
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
So now it's a conspiracy and he can't refer to himself as Irish because there's a prejudice against Irish managers or something. Real tinpot stuff. And he can still be a fanatical Celtic supporter and move on when he's presented with a better financial opportunity, like virtually every single person making a living in the game, including the person who preceded him in the job. The two things don't contradict each other at all. If I was offered the choice of Ireland qualifying for a World Cup and a big bag of money - I'd take the money.
The man has a Protestant background anyway, like Graeme McDowell. It's entirely feasible he identifies as Northern Irish or British without it being denigrated as being for career reasons. |
I didn't say he can or can't do anything. There's definitely a piece whereby being British is better in the British press and being a young British manager (less young) gets you better exposure. There is utterly no doubt about that. It has nothing to do with him maybe being Irish - he could be Italian or Indonesian or Iraqi - that is not my point. You might pause and take a breath before you go running off drawing your own warped conclusions on posts accompanied by hypocritical "tinpot" accusations.
|
What are you on about, "maybe being Irish". He literally calls himself British in loads of links if you Google it. Then again, we're talking about someone who insisted Mipo Odubeko wanted to play for us on his old account until the evidence became irrefutable, and who thinks just because he was born in Dublin he identifies as Irish more than anything else like he's some hostage to his birthplace.
There is literally doubt about it. It's your opinion that being a British manager gets you better exposure. Stop acting like you have incontrovertible proof. Roy Keane was on the path to managing a big team but he sabotaged his own managerial career; Brian Barry-Murphy did a middling job at Rochdale and got hired by Man City off the back of it; Mick McCarthy and Chris Hughton are regularly hired by Championship clubs; our own current manager did abysmally when he was hired by a British club. The fact is most Irishmen who have been given a chance by British clubs in recent years as coaches or managers (Steve Staunton, Graham Kavanagh, Richie Foran, Joe Dunne, Robbie Keane) haven't been up to it. Our high profile players, for whatever reason, don't tend to go into management when they retire. It isn't because of discrimination or bias. It's because they'd rather go into punditry or write sh*te articles in the newspaper.
Let me guess. You're one of those quacks who thinks Grealish or Rice were converted into England players by evil agents and intermediaries who wanted to get rich off their backs, rather than it being a case of them being too good to play for us and using us as a platform to get recognition at club level and higher up the international ladder. |
You know what, I don't have any old account. If you feel the need to throw that crap around to support your point and set you up for a rambling tirade where you misconstrue and bend my point then that's fine.
Lads, is there any function which allows me to block this guy? |
I'm sure it's just a coincidence that you started posting the very same week the other crank who was obsessed with me got banned. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that you have the exact same syntax as this other poster. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that one of your first posts was a reply to a post I made about an eligible player. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that you are obsessed with my posts. If you're going to set up a new account (again) and try to go incognito, then make yourself less obvious.
I didn't misconstrue anything, either. Your post asserting some institutional bias against Irish managers was absolutely idiotic, and offensive when you consider the genuine prejudices black and Asian footballers face when looking for coaching positions. |
It is a co-incidence. The same poster you are referring to has messaged me privately with regards to your paranoia so they are still active. And I'm not comparing Irish managers to anyone. I'm comparing British managers to everyone else. You are intentionally misconstruing my point and now You're trying to impose racism on me now. You accusing someone else of something offensive is incredible. And, quite frankly, you're disturbing me. Please steer clear.
|
You claimed not be the poster I referred to before and then the moderators banned you for posting from the exact same IP address as him.
The implication of what you said is that Rodgers refers to himself as British because there is some kind of bias against Irish managers, which I proved is moronic in a post above.
Stop playing the victim. You keep wumming whenever you see my posts. Just ignore them if they trigger you so much.
And stop derailing the thread.
|
@Hotlips, you were at the same thing with DM about FamilyGuy in the Sunderland thread despite you being told numerous times that FamilyGuy is well known to many on here. I have his number on my phone if you want it so you can ring him and ask him yourself. It is not your job to police members accounts on here, so refrain from labelling people. |
Thanks Sham. Happy to verify my authenticity by whatever means necessary too. |
I'll be happy to apologise to Eoin if he's telling the truth and divulges who O'Shea is posting as, since he's evading a ban.
Either way, not my intention to tell anyone how to run the forum, and happy to put this nonsense behind and keep on topic!
Edited by Hotlips_Hoolahan - 10 Dec 2021 at 9:18pm
|
|
Sham157
Moderator Group
Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Location: Monaghan/Dublin
Status: Offline
Points: 33236
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2021 at 10:02pm |
Lets get this straight once and for all. Nobody is under any obligation or otherwise to divulge anything to you about themselves or anybody else, nor are they under any requirement to justify themselves.
If you wish to reply to a post or debate it, then do so. If Eoink’s posts or indeed anyone else’s annoy you so much that you feel the need to go down the route you have, then maybe best to ignore them and maybe even consider if a forum/message board is the best place to spend so much of your time.
Now, as far as Im concerned this is now the end of it. So help me out in this and move on.
|
|
Slow & Blind
Davey Langan
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Location: Newcastle
Status: Offline
Points: 774
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2021 at 10:07pm |
|
Just googled what an Uncle Tom is, never heard the term before.
|
|
You Tell Me
Jack Charlton
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 6773
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2021 at 10:27pm |
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
Can anyone with an Irish Times account copy and paste this?
|
It's a long article that wanders off into stories about Scottish rugby and other things, so it would only clog up the thread posting it all. But I've copied the last couple of paragraphs below regarding the choice of anthem for NI, which are probably the most relevant ones.
Choice
The IFA, which has made giant strides towards respecting different traditions, has a choice. They can side with what is probably a majority of unionist voices and do nothing, or, they can buy into O’Neill’s vision of creating and harnessing an identity shared by all of the players. It isn’t a zero sum game.
Irish rugby has done it. They have changed over the years. The GAA has also done it. They are Irish sports that have, on occasion, painfully moved from the ‘always been’ mentality because ‘always been’ didn’t work. It needed change. It did not represent current thinking.
The people who decide these things may sit down now and imagine what the experience would be for a talented kid from The Village or Shankill Road to line up for each NI match and respectfully stand to attention to The Soldier’s Song. All hell.
Then they can agree that what they expect of the talented kid from Turf Lodge, or Ballymurphy is to do exactly that for GSTQ. Ask then, if both green and orange traditions are equal in value, or, is one of them just not worth it.
|
|
Hotlips_Hoolahan
Jack Charlton
Joined: 04 Aug 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 6615
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2021 at 11:02pm |
Cheers for that, You Tell Me.
I haven't been able to source the program yet but Daniel Collins has a few clips on his Twitter page.
|
|
Green Cockade
Liam Brady
Joined: 22 Jan 2020
Location: Belfast
Status: Offline
Points: 2715
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Dec 2021 at 10:52am |
|
Jim Goodwin isn't the only Irish manager in the UK. Also managing in Scotland is Annan Athletic boss Peter Murphy, who has the same number of full caps as Jim ( one, when he played half a game under Steve Staunton ) and holds the record for number of appearances for Carlisle.
|
|
Hotlips_Hoolahan
Jack Charlton
Joined: 04 Aug 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 6615
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Dec 2021 at 11:27am |
Pat Fenlon, Stephen Kenny, Steve Staunton, Joe Dunne, Graham Kavanagh, Richie Foran, Brian Carey, Roy Keane, Dean Brennan, Roddy Collins, Niall Quinn.
All have managed in the UK in this century and the average length of their managerial careers is about a year give or take.
Even going back to the 90s, Liam Brady, Ronnie Whelan and Damien Richardson had fleeting managerial careers.
A few went into punditry, a few went into assistant coaching, a few went into backroom roles, very few stick it out.
I'd wonder why that is. Even in the Championship right now, Cliff Byrne is assistant to Grant McCann at Hull City.
Maybe in general we're not the best at being front of house. Perhaps we're just better at ticking away in the background.
I'd like for it to change.
|
|
Tweet
