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Nations League 2022 Group B1
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Robbie Keane
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Group B1.  I clicked on this thread thinking it was the Battleships thread Saint

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Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

It seems to me that yet again, expectations do not in any way reflect the actual ability of this Irish team. Lads chatting about whether it's preferable to finish 1st or 2nd in the Group as if we might throw a game just to ensure we dont finish top. We have been drawn against 2 sides who are better than us and on top of that the fixture list hasnt been kind either from a travel point of view. We have 2 PL starters in our squad currently, one is 33 and one is in and out atm and we have a lot of lads who are struggling to get first team minutes. It is an inexperienced bunch and we are calling up quite a few from League One. No matter what way you look at it, Scotland have better players, better form and are much further along in their development. I'm not going to go into an in depth analysis of the Ukraine, but again form would suggest they are well ahead of us currently and I would imagine almost all of their players play regularly and feature in European competition each year. We are a team who have never won a NL game! Anything over 7pts would be a very good return. 

I'm not sure how this is relevant. It has been some time since we played a Nations League game. To suggest that we can't be successful in 2022 because we weren't in 2020, or when Martin O'Neill was in charge is a bit of a stretch. In terms of most Ukraine players playing in Europe - that's a lot easier when they play for Ukrainian league teams like Shakhtar and Dinamo Kiev. If our better players somehow ended up playing for Ukrainian teams I'm sure they'd have plenty of European experience too.

All known form of Ukraine and Scotland would suggest that they're a bit more advanced in their squad development than we are. But it's far from unrealistic to think we can have a good crack at both teams.
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Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

It seems to me that yet again, expectations do not in any way reflect the actual ability of this Irish team. Lads chatting about whether it's preferable to finish 1st or 2nd in the Group as if we might throw a game just to ensure we dont finish top. We have been drawn against 2 sides who are better than us and on top of that the fixture list hasnt been kind either from a travel point of view. We have 2 PL starters in our squad currently, one is 33 and one is in and out atm and we have a lot of lads who are struggling to get first team minutes. It is an inexperienced bunch and we are calling up quite a few from League One. No matter what way you look at it, Scotland have better players, better form and are much further along in their development. I'm not going to go into an in depth analysis of the Ukraine, but again form would suggest they are well ahead of us currently and I would imagine almost all of their players play regularly and feature in European competition each year. We are a team who have never won a NL game! Anything over 7pts would be a very good return. 

I'm not sure how this is relevant. It has been some time since we played a Nations League game. To suggest that we can't be successful in 2022 because we weren't in 2020, or when Martin O'Neill was in charge is a bit of a stretch. In terms of most Ukraine players playing in Europe - that's a lot easier when they play for Ukrainian league teams like Shakhtar and Dinamo Kiev. If our better players somehow ended up playing for Ukrainian teams I'm sure they'd have plenty of European experience too.

All known form of Ukraine and Scotland would suggest that they're a bit more advanced in their squad development than we are. But it's far from unrealistic to think we can have a good crack at both teams.

I think it's relevant as it shows that we havent really been a proper Group B team since the NL started and arguably we had stronger (certainly more experienced) teams in previous iterations and better draws. Yes it's a new campaign and yes we showed signs of improvement towards the back end of the last campaign, but we havent just magically turned a corner and now are suddenly going to start beating decent teams easily. We still have significant issues in the attacking areas.

A good crack is fine, I agree we'll give the Scots and the Ukraine plenty to think about, but people are suggesting 10 to 12 points, and that's a real stretch imo, unless we get the 6 pts from the 2 Armenia games, which will be very difficult given the timing of the away fixture, plus they are a much better side than either Azerbaijan or Luxembourg (which is why they are in Group B) as evidenced by WCQ victories over Romania and Iceland. To amass more points than either Scotland or Ukraine in the respective head to heads will also be extremely difficult. Anything over 7pts will be a good return imo.
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Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

A good crack is fine, I agree we'll give the Scots and the Ukraine plenty to think about, but people are suggesting 10 to 12 points, and that's a real stretch imo, unless we get the 6 pts from the 2 Armenia games, which will be very difficult given the timing of the away fixture, plus they are a much better side than either Azerbaijan or Luxembourg (which is why they are in Group B) as evidenced by WCQ victories over Romania and Iceland. To amass more points than either Scotland or Ukraine in the respective head to heads will also be extremely difficult. Anything over 7pts will be a good return imo.

I'm one who looked at 10-12 points as a return but you are right - there will be no easy games in this group for us as 3rd seeds, where even the one weaker team are at the far end of a long-haul.

I am confident we will play well and put it to every team, and also confident they will shed points to each other, so this group will likely be very tight and wins will go a long way.
But those wins will be hard to get and we should be under no illusion that Scotland or Ukraine dropping points to us will be seen as a dissapointment for them.
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I think people are looking at Armenia as if they are the bottom seed like Gibraltar in a 6 team group. Yes, we should be able to beat them but with someone like Mikatarian (while he has not hit the heights of a few years ago, he is still at Roma) and looking at some recent results, 6 points is optimistic.
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Originally posted by VanBosch VanBosch wrote:

I think people are looking at Armenia as if they are the bottom seed like Gibraltar in a 6 team group. Yes, we should be able to beat them but with someone like Mikatarian (while he has not hit the heights of a few years ago, he is still at Roma) and looking at some recent results, 6 points is optimistic.


We struggled against them in qualifying a decade ago with a far superior squad. They're not in League B for the craic. They're in it because they're a similar ranked to team as us and capable of nicking results.
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Originally posted by Bandwagon Bandwagon wrote:

Originally posted by VanBosch VanBosch wrote:

I think people are looking at Armenia as if they are the bottom seed like Gibraltar in a 6 team group. Yes, we should be able to beat them but with someone like Mikatarian (while he has not hit the heights of a few years ago, he is still at Roma) and looking at some recent results, 6 points is optimistic.


We struggled against them in qualifying a decade ago with a far superior squad. They're not in League B for the craic. They're in it because they're a similar ranked to team as us and capable of nicking results.

They are in League B because they won a group containing Georgia, North Macedonia and Estonia.

Since the first NL in Sept 2018  they have drawn three times with Liechtenstein and lost at home to Gibraltar.  They also lost 9-1 to Italy.  They are capable of the odd good result eg their wins over Iceland and Romania.    However they are clearly the weakest team in League B.




Edited by gspain - 20 Dec 2021 at 7:56pm
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I think Macedonia won 5-0 in Yerevan recently. They’re not great. We should be expecting 6 points from Armenia.
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For a comparison with other teams we've played over the last couple of years:

Armenia are just 1 place ahead of Luxembourg in the World rankings (92nd & 93rd, our old friends Georgia ranked just ahead at 86th)(I know, rankings aren't gospel, but they are a decent indicator).
Armenia are in League B now because they got promoted from League C last time, finishing on 11pts with 3 wins & 2 draws.
Luxembourg finished 2nd in their group on 10pts, 3 wins 1 draw.
Both were among the stronger League C teams with Armenia joint 3rd, Lux joint 6th (out of 16) in the overall League C table.

They're not minnows, but as long as our squad is in good shape in regards player fitness/availability then we're capable of taking 6pts.

Scotland are 38th in the world, just ahead of Hungary (39th) & Slovakia (42nd), both of whom we drew 0-0 with away.

Ukraine are 25th in the world, behind Serbia (23rd) & Wales (19th)
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To add to the above Armenia are a bit like Luxembourg who have improved recently in that they are your typical plucky 4th seed not easy to play against but it's vital you go and beat them

North Macedonia picked up 4 points against them Romania got beat by them. That's why North Macedonia got to the play offs and Romania didn't. 
Likewise the Euro 2020 qualifiers Finland took all 6 pts against them where as the likes of Bosnia slipped up against them. Even back to Euro 2012 we managed just to get all 6 pts against them Slovakia got beat by them. Made a huge difference in that campaign. 

Tough teams to beat but if you want to qualify for tournaments you go and beat plucky 4th and 5th seeds it's vital. Ukraine/Scotland are a good draw in that we will likely have to beat a team of their calibre to the runner up spot to qualify for Euro 2024. If we can get a win or two against those teams maybe even get 4 points off of one of them (big ask of course) we can take real confidence we have a strong chance of qualfiying under Kenny. 

Armenia will be a good test in a different sense as they will likely be 4th seeds again for Euro 2024 bread and butter games you ideally have to win to qualify. I would be hoping for 4 points against them if not 6 points.
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“Randolph sends it long…and Shane Long is in behind the German defence… Shane Long against Neuer…. 1-0!.. What a moment!”
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Originally posted by AonSceal19 AonSceal19 wrote:

 https:


Ireland would finish 2nd via head to head record with Scotland based off the above. The table goes by GD which is wrong.
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Originally posted by Greenie50 Greenie50 wrote:

For a comparison with other teams we've played over the last couple of years:

Armenia are just 1 place ahead of Luxembourg in the World rankings (92nd & 93rd, our old friends Georgia ranked just ahead at 86th)(I know, rankings aren't gospel, but they are a decent indicator).
Armenia are in League B now because they got promoted from League C last time, finishing on 11pts with 3 wins & 2 draws.
Luxembourg finished 2nd in their group on 10pts, 3 wins 1 draw.
Both were among the stronger League C teams with Armenia joint 3rd, Lux joint 6th (out of 16) in the overall League C table.

They're not minnows, but as long as our squad is in good shape in regards player fitness/availability then we're capable of taking 6pts.

Scotland are 38th in the world, just ahead of Hungary (39th) & Slovakia (42nd), both of whom we drew 0-0 with away.

Ukraine are 25th in the world, behind Serbia (23rd) & Wales (19th)


Good post. Comparing to similar teams and the results we had against them is how to know what to expect. 

We should be beating them, but it's far from a guarantee. 
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I wonder will Ukraine be able to fulfil these fixtures
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Certainly the away game in Kiev in June must be in doubt, at least as far as playing it in Kiev goes (I appreciate the conflict so far is further to the east of the country). Could maybe be played at a neutral venue, similar to the Georgia game in 2008.
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Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Certainly the away game in Kiev in June must be in doubt, at least as far as playing it in Kiev goes (I appreciate the conflict so far is further to the east of the country). Could maybe be played at a neutral venue, similar to the Georgia game in 2008.

Or in Moscow by then....
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Originally posted by zizu Kilbane zizu Kilbane wrote:

I wonder will Ukraine be able to fulfil these fixtures
I know Fifa/Uefa hate bringing politics into football, but I wonder if they'd force Poland to go to Moscow for their playoff next month. I could definitely see them moving that to a neutral venue at least
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Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Originally posted by zizu Kilbane zizu Kilbane wrote:

I wonder will Ukraine be able to fulfil these fixtures
I know Fifa/Uefa hate bringing politics into football, but I wonder if they'd force Poland to go to Moscow for their playoff next month. I could definitely see them moving that to a neutral venue at least


 Good call , didn't think of that one 
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