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Kevin Kilbane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 84ccfc84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2022 at 5:25pm
Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by TheNumber6 TheNumber6 wrote:

19 senior games isn’t a body of work consistent with providing a definitive measure of one’s quality at the age of 24.

If you'd never watched Lionel Messi before, and you only got to watch the 7 games he played at the world cup, would you need more evidence to conclude that he was an outstanding footballer?

Kelleher has played 19 games for Liverpool's first team, 9 games for Ireland seniors, and 10 games for the Under-21's - and he has impressed in most of them. If you still can't tell whether he's a good goalkeeper or not, it's only because you are a bad judge of player.

LOL

Trying to equate Messi and Kelleher now. Bloody brilliant. LOL

But funnily enough, if you remove Messi from your atrocious argument, there have been numerous examples of players getting moves based on a handful of games at international tournaments and flopping afterword. Clearly demonstrating that a greater body of work should be taken into account before making judgements.

The only bad judge of player is the person over hyping a sub keeper based off essentially f*ck all games when playing for a team that has been winning with ease for years. 

Congratulations on failing to understand what metaphorical reasoning is Embarrassed

Thanks, post me out my award when you're done talking clueless, embarrassing waffle. LOL
 

If you honestly think the point of the post is to compare Kelleher (a goalkeeper) to Messi (the greatest outfield player of all time), then I'm unsurprised your level of intelligence doesn't allow you to make a call on a players quality from a 38 game sample.

I'm well aware that the point of the post was that you can make snap judgements on players off an extremely small sample size of games, which as I've already said is just an abysmal take. Especially given that you used the World Cup as an example for this sample size of games, which has famously led to a truckload of players being bought off their performances there and flopping afterward.

Thereby clearly indicating the need for more games to judge a player off.
Especially in the case of Carabao Caoimh who has played barely any games in goal for one of the most dominant teams in Europe. Plenty of top teams have been able to rotate in a number two over the years in damp squib fixtures who hasnt made a show of themselves. That doesnt mean that they have great ability. It's very obviously impossible to judge when the sample size is so low and the majority of the games are unimportant.

The cherry on top of your sh*t sundae was you utilising Messi as an example, regardless of your intentions with 'metaphorical reasoning' - you've still used Messi as a direct comparison to Kelleher. Now run along.

hmmm i dont think so but  keep calling him carabao caoimh if that makes you feel better!
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Liam Brady
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote E2016 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2022 at 11:56pm
Originally posted by 84ccfc84 84ccfc84 wrote:

Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by TheNumber6 TheNumber6 wrote:

19 senior games isn’t a body of work consistent with providing a definitive measure of one’s quality at the age of 24.

If you'd never watched Lionel Messi before, and you only got to watch the 7 games he played at the world cup, would you need more evidence to conclude that he was an outstanding footballer?

Kelleher has played 19 games for Liverpool's first team, 9 games for Ireland seniors, and 10 games for the Under-21's - and he has impressed in most of them. If you still can't tell whether he's a good goalkeeper or not, it's only because you are a bad judge of player.

LOL

Trying to equate Messi and Kelleher now. Bloody brilliant. LOL

But funnily enough, if you remove Messi from your atrocious argument, there have been numerous examples of players getting moves based on a handful of games at international tournaments and flopping afterword. Clearly demonstrating that a greater body of work should be taken into account before making judgements.

The only bad judge of player is the person over hyping a sub keeper based off essentially f*ck all games when playing for a team that has been winning with ease for years. 

Congratulations on failing to understand what metaphorical reasoning is Embarrassed

Thanks, post me out my award when you're done talking clueless, embarrassing waffle. LOL
 

If you honestly think the point of the post is to compare Kelleher (a goalkeeper) to Messi (the greatest outfield player of all time), then I'm unsurprised your level of intelligence doesn't allow you to make a call on a players quality from a 38 game sample.

I'm well aware that the point of the post was that you can make snap judgements on players off an extremely small sample size of games, which as I've already said is just an abysmal take. Especially given that you used the World Cup as an example for this sample size of games, which has famously led to a truckload of players being bought off their performances there and flopping afterward.

Thereby clearly indicating the need for more games to judge a player off.
Especially in the case of Carabao Caoimh who has played barely any games in goal for one of the most dominant teams in Europe. Plenty of top teams have been able to rotate in a number two over the years in damp squib fixtures who hasnt made a show of themselves. That doesnt mean that they have great ability. It's very obviously impossible to judge when the sample size is so low and the majority of the games are unimportant.

The cherry on top of your sh*t sundae was you utilising Messi as an example, regardless of your intentions with 'metaphorical reasoning' - you've still used Messi as a direct comparison to Kelleher. Now run along.

hmmm i dont think so but  keep calling him carabao caoimh if that makes you feel better!

You dont think that number 2 keepers have been able to come in for League cup games and dead rubbers at other teams and not embarass themselves?

United had Van Der Gouw, Kuszczak and Lindegaard alone during times when they were at the top, who were long term number 2's and were able to play in these games and not embarass themselves. Sometimes they even played well. Never once did anybody think that these players were good enough to start games at top teams, just because they didnt disgrace themselves in their extremely limited appearances with United, in mostly dead rubber games, when United were much better than they are now.

Until Kelleher decides to show some ambition and attempt to actually play football nobody can say what he is. Acting like he is better than other keepers who start week in week out, purely because he doesnt get on the pitch enough to make mistakes, is just nonsense. Acting like there is nothing between Kelleher and two lads who start week in week out and actually put themselves out there, have a go and take the risk of making a mistake is mental. Acting like Kelleher has shown elite levels of ability in his extremely limited showings in a Mickey Mouse cup for Liverpool, is nonsense. Bazunu has 4 times the amount of premier league appearances as Kelleher does, already. 

Bazunu is making mistakes at the moment but at least he had the ambition to try and make them. Should stand to him down the line, certainly more than if he was trotted out for Man City 2 times a season.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatnacho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 7:39am
Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by 84ccfc84 84ccfc84 wrote:

Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by TheNumber6 TheNumber6 wrote:

19 senior games isn’t a body of work consistent with providing a definitive measure of one’s quality at the age of 24.

If you'd never watched Lionel Messi before, and you only got to watch the 7 games he played at the world cup, would you need more evidence to conclude that he was an outstanding footballer?

Kelleher has played 19 games for Liverpool's first team, 9 games for Ireland seniors, and 10 games for the Under-21's - and he has impressed in most of them. If you still can't tell whether he's a good goalkeeper or not, it's only because you are a bad judge of player.

LOL

Trying to equate Messi and Kelleher now. Bloody brilliant. LOL

But funnily enough, if you remove Messi from your atrocious argument, there have been numerous examples of players getting moves based on a handful of games at international tournaments and flopping afterword. Clearly demonstrating that a greater body of work should be taken into account before making judgements.

The only bad judge of player is the person over hyping a sub keeper based off essentially f*ck all games when playing for a team that has been winning with ease for years. 

Congratulations on failing to understand what metaphorical reasoning is Embarrassed

Thanks, post me out my award when you're done talking clueless, embarrassing waffle. LOL
 

If you honestly think the point of the post is to compare Kelleher (a goalkeeper) to Messi (the greatest outfield player of all time), then I'm unsurprised your level of intelligence doesn't allow you to make a call on a players quality from a 38 game sample.

I'm well aware that the point of the post was that you can make snap judgements on players off an extremely small sample size of games, which as I've already said is just an abysmal take. Especially given that you used the World Cup as an example for this sample size of games, which has famously led to a truckload of players being bought off their performances there and flopping afterward.

Thereby clearly indicating the need for more games to judge a player off.
Especially in the case of Carabao Caoimh who has played barely any games in goal for one of the most dominant teams in Europe. Plenty of top teams have been able to rotate in a number two over the years in damp squib fixtures who hasnt made a show of themselves. That doesnt mean that they have great ability. It's very obviously impossible to judge when the sample size is so low and the majority of the games are unimportant.

The cherry on top of your sh*t sundae was you utilising Messi as an example, regardless of your intentions with 'metaphorical reasoning' - you've still used Messi as a direct comparison to Kelleher. Now run along.

hmmm i dont think so but  keep calling him carabao caoimh if that makes you feel better!

You dont think that number 2 keepers have been able to come in for League cup games and dead rubbers at other teams and not embarass themselves?

United had Van Der Gouw, Kuszczak and Lindegaard alone during times when they were at the top, who were long term number 2's and were able to play in these games and not embarass themselves. Sometimes they even played well. Never once did anybody think that these players were good enough to start games at top teams, just because they didnt disgrace themselves in their extremely limited appearances with United, in mostly dead rubber games, when United were much better than they are now.

Until Kelleher decides to show some ambition and attempt to actually play football nobody can say what he is. Acting like he is better than other keepers who start week in week out, purely because he doesnt get on the pitch enough to make mistakes, is just nonsense. Acting like there is nothing between Kelleher and two lads who start week in week out and actually put themselves out there, have a go and take the risk of making a mistake is mental. Acting like Kelleher has shown elite levels of ability in his extremely limited showings in a Mickey Mouse cup for Liverpool, is nonsense. Bazunu has 4 times the amount of premier league appearances as Kelleher does, already. 

Bazunu is making mistakes at the moment but at least he had the ambition to try and make them. Should stand to him down the line, certainly more than if he was trotted out for Man City 2 times a season.
So basically, the argument is that it doesn’t matter how badly Bazunu performs each week as long as he’s playing????
Yes, goalkeepers make mistakes but the frequency recently does raise question marks. Problem is that he won’t be playing much longer if his bad form continues. He plays behind a bad defence at Southampton but he doesn’t have much better on the national team to bail him out at international level either.
Still think he has enough credit in the bank to be no.1 for the national team but it’s not as indisputable as back in the summer.
In regards to Kelleher, there’s no need to denigrate his career so far. How many Irish players have played a pivotal role in winning a trophy recently? You can call it a Mickey Mouse cup but it’s more than anybody in the recent Irish squad has ever won.


Edited by Fatnacho - 29 Dec 2022 at 7:43am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote E2016 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 10:58am
Only by playing regular football can the ability of a player be judged. Not over 3 games a season. 

After that we can see who is playing where, and how well they are playing. 

Bazunu is playing regular games now at the highest level and there are obvious areas he can improve. Same with Travers. We know that there are areas he can improve because he has been playing enough games to show the areas that need work. I know a special, gifted few need only watch Kelleher play a few times in the Carabao cup over the space of 3-4 years to know exactly how good Kelleher is, same as a randomer would only need to watch the world cup to know how good Messi is, but the normal folk among us might wonder how he would do facing as many shots as Bazunu is. Or how he would fare playing out from the back against teams that arent completely terrified of you and sit off, allowing you to pick your passes. Or how he would deal with the pressure of playing in games where the top flight future of the club is on the line, rather than having 3 games a season mostly confined to a tournament that the manager sees as an inconvenience.

Were Bazunu still at Man City and trotted out twice a season to take part in a Mickey Mouse cup, he would undoubtedly not be making some of the errors he is now, and any judgement on him would be pretty worthless. 

So yes, playing games trumps sitting around on your arse for years. These games should stand to Bazunu down the line.
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Kevin Kilbane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 84ccfc84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 11:20am
bazunu wouldnt be 2nd choice at man city though, thats why he left. "sitting around on your arse for years" lol. Kelleher has only been in the first team squad for 2 years. its hardly been detrimental to his development no less than going to rochdale was to bazunus rise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 12:06pm
For what it's worth, I'd say there's every chance Bazunu would have been Number 2 at City this season if he had chosen to stay on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

For what it's worth, I'd say there's every chance Bazunu would have been Number 2 at City this season if he had chosen to stay on.

For what its worth, I wouldnt!
Idah Dream!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

For what it's worth, I'd say there's every chance Bazunu would have been Number 2 at City this season if he had chosen to stay on.

For what its worth, I wouldnt!

Ortega is a very good keeper, I don't think Bazunu would be ahead of him currently. Then again, they may well not have signed him if Bazunu had stayed.
We're decent enough..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevin100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 12:31pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

For what it's worth, I'd say there's every chance Bazunu would have been Number 2 at City this season if he had chosen to stay on.

For what its worth, I wouldnt!

Ortega is a very good keeper, I don't think Bazunu would be ahead of him currently. Then again, they may well not have signed him if Bazunu had stayed.
 

It was well documented by very good sources that City wanted to keep Bazunu as back up! They signed Ortega after Bazunu left! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 1:55pm
Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

For what it's worth, I'd say there's every chance Bazunu would have been Number 2 at City this season if he had chosen to stay on.

For what its worth, I wouldnt!

I doubt they'd have signed Ortega if he had stayed. You think Scott Carson would have been ahead of him?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevin100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 2:17pm
Hope to god he can keep a clean sheet in this game today! Fulham playing well but it’s the sort of game Southampton can nick!

I was fully expecting him to be dropped!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djhegzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by kevin100 kevin100 wrote:

Hope to god he can keep a clean sheet in this game today! Fulham playing well but it’s the sort of game Southampton can nick!

I was fully expecting him to be dropped!

Same as, but their #2 is still injured
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 2:26pm
It's either him or a 41 year old training goalkeeper at the moment, so he stays in for now. Could really do with a good game today though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevin100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 2:38pm
Yeah he’s been given an opportunity if ever a player could do with a clean sheet or his team just winning it’s him! Hard to drop them if they somehow win! Fulham won’t be easy to keep out
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. Snrub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 4:58pm
Saves a penalty from Mitrovic, should boost his confidence 
"Here's Robbie Keane...... yeeeessss! That is no more than Ireland deserve!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DublinScouse1916 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by Mr. Snrub Mr. Snrub wrote:

Saves a penalty from Mitrovic, should boost his confidence 

A penalty he caused too. Flaps more in the air than a pigeon
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by DublinScouse1916 DublinScouse1916 wrote:

Originally posted by Mr. Snrub Mr. Snrub wrote:

Saves a penalty from Mitrovic, should boost his confidence 

A penalty he caused too. Flaps more in the air than a pigeon

Sick burn bro
We're decent enough..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 6:48pm
More flaps than Pornhub was a better line I saw about him online earlier. Some truth in it at the moment unfortunately.
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