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Covid19 - What should Ireland do?
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Poll Question: What approach should Ireland take?
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5 [17.24%]
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sausy View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
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Points: 6963 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sausy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2020 at 11:51am
Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by sausy sausy wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Because young people can afford to move out.
 
Think I read an article last week that said the average age for moving out of the family home in Sweeden was 17.

Average age 17.  Would suggest people move out well below 17 to count for those that move out at 26 or 22.  

Was it the median age? 

Is not the average age.
Swedes typically move out after finishing high school - so around 18 and over 75% of them go to university.
I believe all education is free in Sweden and you get grants to go to uni.

But as PM stated, it’s in their culture to trust and follow the advise of their government that is the basis behind their approach.
 
The article says average age, that's just what I'm going by.
 
 
 
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From my understanding that the initially high death rate, especially in comparison to neighbouring countries, in Sweden, actually caused people to change behaviour, which initially was just "business as usual" as the Government relied on its culture to fight the virus, which proved to be an incorrect strategy.
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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

From my understanding that the initially high death rate, especially in comparison to neighbouring countries, in Sweden, actually caused people to change behaviour, which initially was just "business as usual" as the Government relied on its culture to fight the virus, which proved to be an incorrect strategy.

Sweden messed up badly with their Care homes (as did a lot of countries).
If they had protected them better their numbers in relation to others would have looked much better.

Do we know what the correct strategy is? 

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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

From my understanding that the initially high death rate, especially in comparison to neighbouring countries, in Sweden, actually caused people to change behaviour, which initially was just "business as usual" as the Government relied on its culture to fight the virus, which proved to be an incorrect strategy.
I'm not for a moment suggesting it was the correct strategy,  just to be clear! It was the correct reasoning for that strategy though. From my understanding of it there hasn't been a huge change in behaviour there. There was a diabolical f**k-up in care homes there too, as well as difficulties in communities who had moved to Sweden from elsewhere.

Like most places, it is incredibly complex, but how they decided what path to follow was correct. I am very sceptical that that path itself was correct but, as they keep saying, time will tell.
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Liam Brady
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Points: 2914 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lenny82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2020 at 10:52pm
I keep hearing that it is their culture that has ensured people follow the guidance and direction of the government. Is it a case that their government isn't filled with self-serving, wasteful, incompetent clowns and are therefore more trustworthy?
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Robbie Keane
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We are a nation of cute hoors looking to get away with whatever we can and break every rule until we get caught.

You don't realise until you go to Germany.  They love rules over there. Now we all know where that lead to 80 years ago but in times like this being German is what is needed. Thye will follow the rules to the letter.   The Irish mentality is a complete liability in a pandemic.

Germans will not cross a road until there's a green man even at 3am when there;s no traffic or people about. 
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Liam Brady
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Points: 2914 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lenny82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2020 at 11:04pm
I get that, but those are learned behaviours. I'm pretty sure the German and Swedish government lead by example and practice what they preach, rather than going to golf events in the midst of a pandemic!
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read the twitter thread I posted on the previous thread.  Well worth a read 
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Points: 3687 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ConorMac77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2020 at 1:47am
Originally posted by Lenny82 Lenny82 wrote:

I get that, but those are learned behaviours. I'm pretty sure the German and Swedish government lead by example and practice what they preach, rather than going to golf events in the midst of a pandemic!
Or driving the length of the country during lock-down and then visiting a castle to 'check their eyesight'. Stern Smile
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Points: 9815 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2020 at 7:21am
Originally posted by Lenny82 Lenny82 wrote:

I keep hearing that it is their culture that has ensured people follow the guidance and direction of the government. Is it a case that their government isn't filled with self-serving, wasteful, incompetent clowns and are therefore more trustworthy?
Sounds like you're looking for someone other than yourself to blame there Lenny. The Government can't make us stay away from others, it's on the public to do that. If anything the Swedish govenment has done even less than Irish government (ie closed nothing)
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Liam Brady
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Points: 2914 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lenny82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2020 at 9:45am
I'm not looking to blame anyone else, as I follow the guidelines.

The fact that Sweden did less than us, I.e. closed nothing, is testament to the trust they have in their people to abide by the guidelines and self-police.

In Ireland, it is more of a case of 'Do as I say, not as I do.'
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Lenny have you seen the numbers for deaths in nursing homes in sweden.
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Jack Charlton
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Points: 9647 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zinedine Kilbane 110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2020 at 11:04am
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Lenny have you seen the numbers for deaths in nursing homes in sweden.

They really messed up at the care homes and that was their biggest failing (other countries did the same)
I’m sure they would have done it differently if they could go back in time.

The positive impact on the lives/mental state of the people by keeping everything open can’t be underestimated tho.
I’m sure they would do the same approach again given the chance.

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Robbie Keane
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Points: 32714 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2020 at 11:59am
Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Lenny have you seen the numbers for deaths in nursing homes in sweden.

They really messed up at the care homes and that was their biggest failing (other countries did the same)
I’m sure they would have done it differently if they could go back in time.

The positive impact on the lives/mental state of the people by keeping everything open can’t be underestimated tho.
I’m sure they would do the same approach again given the chance.

Well without data is hard to over estimate for under estimate the impact on mental health 
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Points: 2201 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hulkhogan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2020 at 3:43pm
I never thought I'd say it but at this stage I'd accept a 2 month lockdown if it meant zero covid
Whacha gonna do
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by hulkhogan hulkhogan wrote:

I never thought I'd say it but at this stage I'd accept a 2 month lockdown if it meant zero covid
Without a doubt at all. The stop start nature of the next few years is going to become tedious in the extreme....I would probably take two months of hard lockdown then a month of free for all over the next few years as at least you would have something to look forward to!
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Originally posted by hulkhogan hulkhogan wrote:

I never thought I'd say it but at this stage I'd accept a 2 month lockdown if it meant zero covid
if everyone stocked up and stayed indoors for 2 weeks we’d be done with it wouldn’t we? The virus would have nowhere to go. Would mean doctors, nurses etc living in the hospital. You’d nearly give it a crack
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You’d then have to close the airports and ports after the two weeks or it would make its way in again 
And the north would have to do the same 
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