Jonathan Hill appointed FAI CEO |
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irelandshirts
Ray Houghton I love Ireland jerseys Joined: 02 Apr 2010 Location: Jersey Status: Offline Points: 4416 |
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Yeah thats fair t rAndy of course. I guess my point was that maybe in hindsight a 3rd place finish by Stan in a group where Czech got 29 points and Germany got 27 was as good as could be expected. Even if we beat Cyprus and draw both games against top seeds we still finish 3rd in the group. If we win against Luxembourg and Azerbaijan and finish 3rd will that be a good campaign? Many people feel that under MON our Euro 2016 round of 16 exit was at best "par". So by that logic SK must get to the quarter finals of Euro 2024 for it to be deemed an improvement? Edited by irelandshirts - 10 Sep 2021 at 2:06pm |
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Heimatklange
500 Club la la la Joined: 05 Apr 2021 Status: Offline Points: 711 |
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That team is man for man better than what Kenny inherited
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t_rAndy
Robbie Keane Joined: 06 Feb 2008 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 26163 |
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It wasn't a bad position to finish in hindsight. We were actually 4th seeds and finished above Slovakia who were 3rd seeds. That would be considered an achievement to finish above your seeding place nowadays.
The issue for stan was Cyprus and San marino. It was a shock to our system to have such bad results (San Marino was a win but the nature of it against the worse team in europe was the shock). We had always taken care of the results against the lower teams until then as had all other upper and mid ranked teams generally done whatwas needed against lower teams. As the years progressed after, lot of teams ended up getting some freak results as the lower teams improved and got more professional and orgsnized. But still, that squad for Stan we should have been much closer to Czech and Germany but if it was now you would probably not be sacking the manager for a similar return of points and position in a first campaign (it would have got a play off in the expanded format).
Edited by t_rAndy - 10 Sep 2021 at 2:18pm |
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lassassinblanc
Paul McGrath Cheese, it’s not just for eating Joined: 27 Sep 2010 Location: Clairefontaine Status: Online Points: 16425 |
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Just to point out something too, Germany qualified with the point against us, they then lost to Czech Republic , Not saying they took the foot of the gas after the point against us, but they may have finished top and taken more points off the Czechs if they had still needed the points.
As mentioned though it wasn't games against Germany and Czech Republic which cost us that group 1 point against Cyprus (almost 0 if it hadn't been for Finnan's late goal) also the San Marino debacle.
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irelandshirts
Ray Houghton I love Ireland jerseys Joined: 02 Apr 2010 Location: Jersey Status: Offline Points: 4416 |
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[/QUOTE] Edited by irelandshirts - 10 Sep 2021 at 2:52pm |
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irelandshirts
Ray Houghton I love Ireland jerseys Joined: 02 Apr 2010 Location: Jersey Status: Offline Points: 4416 |
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[QUOTE=t_rAndy] It wasn't a bad position to finish in hindsight. We were actually 4th seeds and finished above Slovakia who were 3rd seeds. That would be considered an achievement to finish above your seeding place nowadays.
The issue for stan was Cyprus and San marino. It was a shock to our system to have such bad results (San Marino was a win but the nature of it against the worse team in europe was the shock). We had always taken care of the results against the lower teams until then as had all other upper and mid ranked teams generally done whatwas needed against lower teams. As the years progressed after, lot of teams ended up getting some freak results as the lower teams improved and got more professional and orgsnized. But still, that squad for Stan we should have been much closer to Czech and Germany but if it was now you would probably not be sacking the manager for a similar return of points and position in a first campaign (it would have got a play off in the expanded format). If you swap Stans Cyprus for SK Luxembourg as results everyone agrees are not acceptable as bottom line. Stan beat San Marino so it was a win. I remember when under Trap we went to Kazakhstan and won by one goal and Trap and the team were slaughtered. Sweden went to the same venue in the same campaign just 3 days later and won by one goal. I didnt see the game just that Sweden got 3 points. Sometimes results on their own can point to alot of things or they can sometimes just be a result. I agree with you now that the standard of most teams has progressed hugely since 2006 and if you look across most results from international breaks there are very few big scores wracked up compared to years ago. And thats again my point just i guess about our own realistic expectation's from a manager and the team should be going forward. |
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Artie Ziff
Ray Houghton Joined: 10 Oct 2007 Status: Offline Points: 3565 |
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Well there is a big difference of 12 points!! Kenny's record is the sh*ttest ever by some distance. And it understandable some fans look at that and say he's not good enough. |
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It would damage this forums' reputation
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ConorMac77
Ray Houghton Joined: 22 Apr 2015 Location: Newry Status: Offline Points: 3661 |
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Fook me, YTM is now so entrenched in his Anti-SK position, he's beyond parody. If this was FB or Twitter, I would have just blocked him ages ago.
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The nation holds it's breath...YES, WE'RE THERE!!!
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irelandshirts
Ray Houghton I love Ireland jerseys Joined: 02 Apr 2010 Location: Jersey Status: Offline Points: 4416 |
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For many Irish fans Stans record wasn't good enough for finishing 3rd in a group, Traps record wasn't good enough, O Neills record wasn't good enough and Mick McCarthys record of P 10 W 5 D4 L 1 wasn't good enough. So just exactly what should an Irish manager do to be considered good enough? Automatic qualification? Yes definitely the aim but over 4 games against the 2 top seeds that's a huge ask. In 2002 we drew with Portugal home and away and beat Holland in Dublin to get a playoff!Massive results which we all hope for but are so hard to achieve. And I get that the style of football is important. Of course people want to see good football but there's a pragmatic approach also sometimes that points win prizes and we stay in contention in our group by hook or by crook. Did we get some luck against Serbia? Yes. Good point. Yes. Will performance be remembered by anyone? Nope. Point in pocket and you move onto Azerbaijan. Jack Charlton and that team from 1988-1994 probably set the bar at unrealistic levels for all that follow. I think for a lot of Ireland fans in the last 20 years apart from the Robbie Brady v Italy and the Shane Long goal in the win over Germany we haven't had those "I was there when...." moments that can make everything that went before it seem alright. Like I asked before name the 3 best consecutive Irish performances since 2003. Not results but 3 games where we put a run of excellent performances together? Edited by irelandshirts - 10 Sep 2021 at 4:14pm |
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thebronze14
Jack Charlton Derry City Til I Die Joined: 22 Feb 2011 Location: Dublin/Donegal Status: Offline Points: 7151 |
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Nail on the head. I wouldn't have recognised this chap if he passed me on the street. Refreshing after the previous reign of terror
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Strazdas
Jack Charlton Joined: 17 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5438 |
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If we were to make a comparison with Michael O'Neill having his contract renewed with NI after a 'bad' campaign, he did so after getting 7 points in the WC group. So we'd be looking at SK picking up around 8 points in order to justify staying - he probably does need to go and win in AZ and Lux to secure the new contract (a win against Portugal would almost certainly manage it).
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E2016
Liam Brady Joined: 13 Jan 2016 Location: Cork Status: Offline Points: 1700 |
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Probably worth considering exactly where NI were before Michael O Neill in that case.
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Trap junior
Robbie Keane YBIG Minister of Doom & Gloom Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Irish Riviera Status: Offline Points: 39490 |
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I wasn't comparing them as managers but more so in the naive fact that both thinking they could have a few years to rebuild the side. Like Carlito says ''he has a big future if he can live past next week''. Or as the great Apollo Creed said ''there is no tomorrow!'' Wise words from one of sports all time greats. Kenny is on another planet if he thinks the FAI and public will write him a blank cheque to lose as many games as he likes while he tinkers with the side just because he now says he is aiming for 2024. When Mick was in charge the narrative from Kenny and others including myself was we had the players to get the same results as Mick was getting but in a better more attractive way. Kenny himself told the press we had excellent players who had lost their way under poor management from his predecessors such as Brady and Hendrick. He said he fundamentally and totally disagreed with the thinking that we didn't have the players and disagreed with talking down our team. Now he is doing the same. He talks up the opposition and makes Azerbaijan, Luxembourg and Serbia sound like world class teams. He didn't like our lack of ambition and now he says we had no hope of qualifying for the WC because he failed at his job to keep us competitive. All seems like the hurler on the ditch finding it a lot harder than he thought it would be and is now making excuses. When he started I was 90% optimistic 10% apprehensive he had the pedigree. Now it has switched around. The next few games will tell all we need to know. |
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Stickittotheman
Liam Brady Joined: 15 Sep 2015 Status: Offline Points: 2289 |
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Top post. This I what he said when he took over whilst remembering he said we had really" .....only won 1 of the 6 games in the group if you exclude Gibraltar". I assume then he felt that didn't particularly count due to the opposition. Andorra however well. "The challenge is to create a team that creates chances. It’s not just that we haven’t scored goals — we haven’t created that many chances. To have a creative team, the best way of doing that is to establish control." "There are many ways of doing that, overloading in midfield and inter-changing positions against opposition perceived to be better; using the width of the pitch, against weaker teams." I totally agree with your comment that when he came in he led us to believe we could get results in a better way. We had talent there and often we played ourselves down instead of having faith. It is always a telling sign when a manager starts to use excuse after excuse. Covid, no luck, no goalscorer, could have won, should have won. Eventually there can't be anymore. Eventually you have to put up or shut up. As you say if anyone thinks we are going to write off an entire campaign in the name of a rebuild and have no minimum standard then they are deluded. The maximum we can get now is 11points highly unlikely to reach that. 8 points looks possible rather than probable. 6 points maybe. To me anything under 8 points is wholly unacceptable and that is why I maintain 2wins in the net 3 games is imperative. Otherwise there can be no hope of staying on.
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Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Trap junior
Robbie Keane YBIG Minister of Doom & Gloom Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Irish Riviera Status: Offline Points: 39490 |
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It's almost as if people believe Serbia, Luxembourg and Azerbaijan have suddenly massively improved and we are really in a group with pot 1 and pot 2 teams. They are poor sides. We have regressed since Mick. Serbia are decent but nothing special. What have they ever done?
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FrankosHereNow
Roy Keane I like Klopp Joined: 02 Jun 2011 Location: El Sadar Status: Offline Points: 12139 |
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Pretty sure Serbia won a youth World Cup about 5 years ago and a European title a couple of years before that.
What have Ireland ever done?
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YBIG Quiz Champion 2016, 2017 & 2018.
As You Were Three in a row |
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E2016
Liam Brady Joined: 13 Jan 2016 Location: Cork Status: Offline Points: 1700 |
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Mick had us competitive and getting good draws vs the Euro 2020 Quarter and Semi finalists. We were probably the better team at home v Denmark too, which is something that Kenny gets credit for even in defeat. The standards have dropped a crazy amount since then. Lets not forget that Kenny told us we had a top 10 back 4/5 in Europe a year ago. Can't keep a clean sheet though for some reason.
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Trap junior
Robbie Keane YBIG Minister of Doom & Gloom Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Irish Riviera Status: Offline Points: 39490 |
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Won 2 European Championships and 3rd in the World in 1998. Underage football may or may not translate into senior team success. It is certainly no proof that they are a top side. Serbia were knocked out of the 2018 world cup with not that hard a group. |
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