Should we give up football? |
Post Reply | Page <1 45678 35> |
Author | ||||
pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
I would suggest you look up the term again. International football is internationalist in outlook, who would have thought, and I doubt multicultural sides like France, Germany and ourselves would have much truck with ethno-nationalism. One of the greatest things about France's modern football triumphs has been how much it has annoyed their ethno-nationalists in the FN, or whatever they have rebounded as this week. Harping on about 'true Gaels' clearly implies ethno-nationalism. The vocal minority making people of other religious backgrounds unwelcome or uncomfortable being tolerated, far more than in any other sport on the island, is ethno-nationalism. The considerable links between the organisation and the dominant Church is, well, you get the picture.
|
||||
Sponsored Links | ||||
The O'Shea
Jack Charlton I know everything and I’m NEVER wrong Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 9563 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
That is honestly a pathetic rationalisation. You do realise that there are numerous fixtures that literally are not allowed to happen in international football? But yeah, it's all about brotherly love between nations
Who in the GAA has given a damn about religion for the past 30+ years? The football Championship is named after a Protestant, Antrim's stadium in the heart of Belfast is named after an Englishman, 2 of Monaghans most prominent footballers of the past decade are Protestants from a border town; as I've already alluded to, a club was recently set up in East Belfast; etc etc. Just face it, you are choosing to wallow in the past because the present GAA doesn't even vaguely resemble your monstrous view of it. It's pathetic, it's sad, and it shows you up for the poisonous little man you are.
Edited by The O'Shea - 08 Sep 2020 at 11:39am |
||||
We're decent enough..
|
||||
Roberto Baggio
Robbie Keane UNBELIEVABLE JEFF Joined: 28 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 37350 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Why does the term "true gael" annoy you so much?
Would it annoy you if a commentator said Richard Dunne was a true Irishman after his performance in Moscow, or Bobby Moore a true West Ham man, or Paul McStay a true Celtic man? Its a similar turn of phrase or term of endearment. Don't take it to heart
Edited by Roberto Baggio - 08 Sep 2020 at 11:45am |
||||
sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
It's ironic that rugby is demonised on here because it doesn't play Amhran na bhFiann outside of matches at Lansdowne Road
That's actual ethno-nationalism in action
|
||||
The O'Shea
Jack Charlton I know everything and I’m NEVER wrong Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 9563 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Perhaps he is insecure that he can't live up to the billing himself. As you say, for anyone with a normal personality it's a turn of phrase they'd hardly pay any notice to, it doesn't really mean much.
|
||||
We're decent enough..
|
||||
pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Yes, but what that has to do with anything is completely illogical. You erroneously used the term ethno-nationalism and now have to double down. Yes, countries have difficult histories and there is unquestionably difficulties with nationalism in a lot of supports, but rarely ethno-nationalism and certainly not in the sport as a whole, for all of FIFA's many faults, as it would go against its very purpose. The problem is, as I have to keep repeating, is that old Tommy of the comm-meat-tea cares about religion in the GAA and his views are still tolerated in a way they are not elsewhere. That's the problem. The fact that people feel the need to mention that there are a whole two Protestant Gaelic footballers shows that people do still care about religion. The fact that people don't want to accept this is why I see the GAA as a regressive organisation in Irish society. If people want to pretend it is fine, that's ok. Enjoy it. I have managed to avoid such blatantly petty insults when replying to you. I can accept why you might refuse to accept any fault in d'association, but such pettiness only confirms the pigeons and chess analogy. Everyone knows there is more than a kernel of truth in what I am saying, but nobody with a grá for the cult has the decency to admit it.
Edited by pre Madonna - 08 Sep 2020 at 1:21pm |
||||
pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
It doesn't annoy me, I just think the language we use is important and that is openly nativist. That isn't healthy from a sporting organisation with a wide ranging influence.
|
||||
pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
I don't think national anthems should be played before a sporting event. It's unnecessary. I don't see how this is really relevant, more another deflection.
Edited by pre Madonna - 08 Sep 2020 at 1:15pm |
||||
The O'Shea
Jack Charlton I know everything and I’m NEVER wrong Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 9563 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Do you hate the Gaelic heritage of your country so much that you feel the need to rebel against every mention of it? You talk about the old Irish bigots who hate all things non-Gaelic, but you seem to be on the opposite end of the spectrum, turning your nose up to all things that are Gaelic. Someone being proud of Gaelic culture is no more bigoted than someone being proud of Norse culture, Latin culture, etc. So what exactly is your issue with "Gaels" specifically? "Irish nationalism" and Gaelicism are actually incredibly limited in scope compared to most varieties, it doesn't present itself as being some sort of master culture that should rightfully conquer all others, it simply focuses on itself.
|
||||
We're decent enough..
|
||||
pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Again, you have gone off on a rabid rant when I have never said anything of the sort. I'm quite proud of Irish heritage and culture and am currently in the process of finding Irish language lessons nearby. I do have a problem with the nativist implications of the term 'true Gaels'. You can disagree with it, but it has a similar bang of ethno-nationalism that you get off terms like Saxon over here. You can be proud of your culture and heritage without being exclusive about it. I have little problem with the word 'Gaels', albeit it feels unnecessary, but the added adjective makes it menacing and that this is 'our thing', not yours and that you can't be a 'true Gael' or Irishman unless you join our organisation.
Edited by pre Madonna - 08 Sep 2020 at 1:26pm |
||||
sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
It's mad the way you''e created this straw man and decided to argue purely against it The GAA is the most internal conflict-driven organisation you'll find The chip gets ever heavier I think I'll do up a "soccer is a regressive influence" on Irish society thesis just for the craic and to wind you up |
||||
pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Why on earth would that wind me up? I have heard it most of my life anyway.
|
||||
The O'Shea
Jack Charlton I know everything and I’m NEVER wrong Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 9563 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Which "true Gaels" are exclusive about it? Certainly there is anti-English sentiment in many sections of Irish society (which has a fairly understandable historical basis), however, what other cultures really get up these "true Gaels" noses? There has actually been incredibly little backlash against new cultures in Ireland that is buttressed in a "pure Gaelic society" narrative. O'Doherty and her band of loonies are about the only ones I can think of who have attempted it, and I wouldn't exactly say its bought them much success. Compare this situation to England, Germany, France, the Nethetlands etc where there truly are strong movements based on nativist sentiment, and Gaelicism looks almost completely lacking in this kind of radicalisation.
|
||||
We're decent enough..
|
||||
pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Really? Again, I would have had a very different experience of that in West Cork. Maybe I have been dreadfully unlucky. Having lived in Ireland, England and France for reasonable lengths of time, I would say the nativist sentiment is stronger in Ireland. Sure, there is stronger movements in England and France, but a lot of that is that the number of foreigners in Ireland is quite small and, very importantly, the counter movement of good people has been quite strong.
But in France I was never once told to go back home, something my French stepfather, the ****, was told regularly. Indeed, even when I have been on the end of racist barbs over here, and never in my five years in this town, it was never even suggested. I regularly heard Irish friends who had been born in England receive such barbs and so forth. It was even more prevalent when a local guesthouse was used to provide asylum for people from war torn areas all over the world seeking refuge; there seemed to me to be a large correlation between those who would have considered themselves 'true Gaels', although I don't think the term was en vogue at the time, and those telling them to go home.
Edited by pre Madonna - 08 Sep 2020 at 2:20pm |
||||
sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Sacar is a regressive influence on Irish society
Sacar hates Ireland - it ridicules anything to do with Irish culture, and let's face it, sacar fans would prefer if Ireland was still part of the UK Sacar is inherently imperialist and colonialist Sacar makes little contribution to the community Sacar has a racism problem Sacar doesn't care about women's participation Sacar administrators don't care about the game, they only care about money Sacar is a haven for institutional incompetence Sacar is a haven for corruption Sacar in Ireland has links to organised crime Sacar is a magnet for boozed up event junkies puking and urinating in the streets - "the so called best fans in the wuddled" Sacar spreads sectarian hatred Sacar spreads hooliganism and anti-social behaviour Sacar is partitionist Sacar in Ireland has failed to provide a serious outlet for its best players to play Sacar is a business rather a sporting organisation Sacar blames everybody else for its troubles Sacar is ethno-nationalist, it surrounds itself with nationalist paraphernalia like national flags Edited by sid waddell - 08 Sep 2020 at 1:47pm |
||||
pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Nationalism, as well you know, is a different beast from ethno-nationalism. The rest I have all heard before, usually with more venom. There is anquestionable truth to some of it.
|
||||
sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
https://www.the42.ie/irish-soccer-racism-5116554-Jun2020/
I don't ever recall organised monkey chants at a black player by followers of a GAA team
The FAI bans players guilty of racism for a measly five games In the GAA you get a minimum eight-week suspension and the GAA can ban such people for life The match at Windsor Park on November 17th, 1993 was the most ethno-nationalist sporting event ever staged on this island |
||||
pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Wouldn't eight weeks be less than five games? Certainly less than five important ones, albeit that isn't the point.
I'm not sure if that post was aimed at me or the debate? I am very accepting of all of football's problems. It would be great if other sports were as accepting, but then this thread would have stopped a good few pages ago and I am hoping to knock a few more out of it. Yeah, that day in '93, as memorable as it was, was a very dark day for the island, for sport and particularly for football.
|
||||
Post Reply | Page <1 45678 35> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |