Should we give up football? |
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GaretFarellysNutSack
500 Club la la la Joined: 11 Mar 2020 Status: Offline Points: 548 |
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Yep, and also Japan are doing things our players couldn't even begin to attempt. And they're winning now. The only team I've seen we might beat so far are Qatar. I've learned now not to get excited about any prospect we have because time and time and time again they're all failing to become top or even middling players.
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Fruice
Liam Brady Joined: 22 Nov 2014 Location: Cork Status: Offline Points: 1257 |
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If anything this World Cup so far has given me hope we can compete.
Tunisia, Morocco, Japan and the Saudis all got results with between 24% and 40% possession. We can definitely compete like this with top organisation and clear idea of how to transition forward with the ball to hit the opposing team on the break. It’s the only way we can play we should be decent at the back and have pace up top with no creativity in mid field. Why Kenny hasn’t concentrated on this is mad. The next manager for me has to be some one who can implement this style effectively.
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doherty
Jack Charlton Teenage Kicks, so hard to beat Joined: 30 Mar 2015 Status: Offline Points: 7587 |
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All those sides are technically miles ahead of us. Miles and miles. Robert Miles
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I love beer gardens
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GaretFarellysNutSack
500 Club la la la Joined: 11 Mar 2020 Status: Offline Points: 548 |
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Exactly. Japan were always really quick and able to control the ball and pass it properly. We can barely take throw ins without it being a big mess, and that was the case before SK.
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Roberto Baggio
Robbie Keane UNBELIEVABLE JEFF Joined: 28 Jan 2010 Status: Online Points: 37154 |
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They also all look better conditioned and fitter than our lads. Far more legs in the team and look like they can run all day
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Fruice
Liam Brady Joined: 22 Nov 2014 Location: Cork Status: Offline Points: 1257 |
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And maybe so but with the little possession the key is to defensively organised because you are required to defend a lot.
And for sure they are far technically better than us so for us to be playing a slow turgid possession base system like Kenny does is mind boggling |
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GaretFarellysNutSack
500 Club la la la Joined: 11 Mar 2020 Status: Offline Points: 548 |
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if we sorted the defense we wouldn't be quick or fit enough for the breaks like Japan, and we'd need to know how to pass the ball forward and be technically efficient enough for a good first touch
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You Tell Me
Jack Charlton Joined: 05 Sep 2010 Status: Offline Points: 6773 |
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I wouldn't be overly focused on the technical side of it. No, we're not as technically capable as many teams, but we never have been and have dealt with those limitations successfully in the past. The number 1 thing we have to fix is the leaky defence, it's very unlike us to be conceding as many as we have been in the last couple of years. If we can get back to conceding 0 or 1 in the majority of games we'll always have a chance of a result. We actually do have the players at the back to achieve this with an appropriate setup. After that we need to focus on how we play when we have the ball. We have always been at our best when we have had a bit of physicality and aggression in our game to compensate for our technical deficiencies. Even under Kenny, I would argue that it wasn't a coincidence that our best result of his time in charge came against Scotland. The nature of that game as a local derby almost forced us into playing with a higher level of aggression and physicality than we have generally done under him, and that suited our midfielders who, as we know, are limited enough players technically (apart from Cullen). We then took the momentum from that into the Ukraine game, but it was lost again after that. So that would be the template for me going forward - back to the future in terms of the defence and then use the Scotland home game as a template for how we could dictate play and be effective, without resorting back to the old long ball rubbish, which is well past it's time now anyway.
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Bukowski
Kevin Kilbane Joined: 06 Jun 2013 Status: Online Points: 492 |
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YTM, yes the Scotland is us at our most effective, against a team who play at tempo, and we win the ball from aggressive chaos. Against teams like Malta who are not good enough to play at tempo we fall into a stupor and have no idea what to do.
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"The third path to wisdom is experience, and is the most bitter."
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kevin100
Ray Houghton Joined: 01 Jul 2020 Location: Mallow Status: Offline Points: 3342 |
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Some boys really are incredibly negative! Bazunu Kelleher Collins Omobamidele all players most countries (outside the big 7/8 with players coming out their ears) would be delighted to have as young prospects The England problem is a massive issue and theirs nothing wrong with the PL or even the Championship for younger players 18-22/23 problem is most our boys when they don’t get the PL move they just stay in their comfort zone settling for 2nd tier football in the Championship throughout their career! Hence a load of average Championship players. Browne Robinson O’Shea,O’Dowda all players playing the other night that have gone massively backwards overtime having looked promising in their early 20s!
Edited by kevin100 - 23 Nov 2022 at 5:25pm |
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dangere_here
Kevin Kilbane Joined: 24 Nov 2018 Status: Offline Points: 441 |
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To an extent yes the total football sides of the 1970s did run around and harry a lot, but the objective would have been totally different. They were able to play 10 outfield players with excellent attacking technique, footballing intelligence, skill and so on, on the counter and often throwing caution to the wind. I would say pressing there was more a symptom of their system, rather than a central focus. I would say that Dutch side has a lot of similarities to the modern press in football, and attacking in numbers and so on. Whereas with Charlton and Saachi, the objective was not to let the opposition defence bring the ball forward, which was the norm particularly in the 1980s where you had sweepers literally walking the ball over the halfway line unopposed. Combined then with runners into the channels and keeping their defence and midfield occupied at the wrong end of the pitch. Unsettling the opposition was the name of the game, whereas Ruud Krol and Neeskens would have been running around fairly comfortably knowing there's another 5 or 6 lads joining every attack. |
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eddiebro
Kevin Kilbane Joined: 16 Jan 2019 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 220 |
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Yeah Japans team aren’t playing for a combination of Wigan, Preston and MK Dons. No disrespect to the lower English teams but Jason Knight tore apart Luxembourg when he came on against a team that had players based throughout Europe in technically good leagues. Championship and League 1 are physically tough leagues to play in but Jack Byrne any time he’s played for Ireland hasn’t looked out of place playing for Ireland but struggle. McGrath was our MOTM v Malta struggled at Wigan. Byrne himself also struggled. Our reliance on these leagues has to stop if we’re ever going to compete because it takes a special talent like Bazunu to actually jump from league 1 to starting premier league no1 without a rough year or two in the championship which is not going to compliment our good technical players anyway
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Terzino
500 Club la la la Joined: 06 Apr 2016 Status: Offline Points: 646 |
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The Japanese created the J-League in the 90s, and it has developed into a league of neat passing teams. And that is what you expect from the Japanese national team today.
If we wish to replicate what they have done, then it starts with the League of Ireland, which currently works minor miracles considering the lack of investment. On the topic of pressing, I'd say the biggest factor in its development was the change to the back pass rule. Previously, teams under pressure could just knock it back to the keeper. The Dutch pressing in the 70s was part of their off-side trap. Rush the man with the ball, and force him to knock it long to players standing off-side.
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GaretFarellysNutSack
500 Club la la la Joined: 11 Mar 2020 Status: Offline Points: 548 |
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The Japanese have 90 million people or something and great facilities and infrastructure for sport.
Canada looked amazing this evening. Last time we played them was 2003 and we hammered them 3-0. Look how they've advanced to this great young team with a top player like Davies and we've just totally gone to sh*te with no hope on the horizon. Oh how the turns have tabled.
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Bukowski
Kevin Kilbane Joined: 06 Jun 2013 Status: Online Points: 492 |
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I watched the Germany Japan game this morning, and reading the reports now I just read this: As the centre-back Maya Yoshida said: “We changed the shape. Jamal
Musiala and Müller were in pockets all the time and we struggled to
catch them. We tried to go three at the back. After that, they struggled
a bit and we did much better.” I would fall out of bed if I read a current Irish player coming out with something like that. Maybe I'm past giving them enough credit but I just don't see it right now.
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"The third path to wisdom is experience, and is the most bitter."
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Jimmy Raggatip
500 Club la la la Joined: 28 May 2018 Status: Offline Points: 722 |
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Canada is who we should be trying to emulate. Yes they have 2 or 3 game changers now but the rest of their squad is a rag tag bunch of misfits, they took the game to Belgium didn't try and become hostage to fortune, which is what continually playing games with only 25 to 40% possession would be, eventually you run out of luck doing that
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Trap junior
Robbie Keane YBIG Minister of Doom & Gloom Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Irish Riviera Status: Online Points: 39506 |
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Pied Piper to: Baldrick, Brendan 88, 9Fingers, Borussia and more...
97.6% chance this post will be replied to by Baldrick (source: PWC) |
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Hotlips_Hoolahan
Jack Charlton Joined: 04 Aug 2020 Status: Offline Points: 6615 |
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3 Irish players starting tonight in the Scottish Premiership.
Seems like just a few years ago there would be at least a dozen starting on every matchday.
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