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Poll Question: Both the Nations League & EURO 2020 Playoff....
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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 6:17pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

You think a man who has worn a UDR poppy would be a good choice for inclusivity then? Interesting. 
Even were I minded to give you a reaction, which Im not, I still wouldn't, such is your obvious need for a bite to distract from your discomfort.

Quit while you're behind would be my advice. LOL
I think that's called deflection. You normally give three thousand words of v. pointless writing, with added pictures, unnecessary emboldened words, italics, smiley faces and post scripts to do the same thing.

Either way, you think it is acceptable. 
Nope, still not biting.

Btw, when you said earlier you were at "a loose end", didn't you mean at your wit's end (both senses of the word)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 6:22pm
-1/10 for that. It would have been -2 only for the italics. There needs to be more unnecessary use of that function.

It's a simply question Terry, but your refusal to answer it says a lot. I'll try again, but it hasn't been my week to get questions answered! 

Do you think a man who still finds the UDR relevant should be considered to manage Norn Iron?
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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 7:12pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

It's a simply question Terry, but your refusal to answer it says a lot. I'll try again, but it hasn't been my week to get questions answered! 

Do you think a man who still finds the UDR relevant should be considered to manage Norn Iron?
 
Wow! You're clearly seriously desperate for an answer. Or do I mean bite?

Either way, may I re-direct you eg to Michael O'Neill? You know, the guy who took him to Dublin to coach his players at Shamrock Rovers?

Or Alan Maybury, who applied to work for him at St.Johnstone (and was appointed btw)?

Or any of the literally hundreds of players, coaches and chairmen from all backgrounds he's worked with as a manager in NI, ROI and Scotland, for over two decades, with some success?

Or even any of the numerous journalists who've covered his career who might therefore be in a position to comment?

I daresay that if there's anything in his character or temperament which would make him unsuited, at least one of them might mention it.

Though come to think of it, I don't understand why none of them hasn't done so before now.

Unless of course...




Edited by Territorial - 09 Jun 2020 at 7:17pm
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Robbie Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 7:43pm
I don't want a bite and I certainly don't want deflection, double standards or, your favourite 'makie-uppie' word: whataboutery! It was a simple question!    A v.v.v.v.v.v.v.v.v.v.v.v. simple question!

You can direct anyone anywhere you like. You can mention that some of his best friends are Catholic and that his milkman is from Athone, but none of it is in any way relevant. I'm not asking if he should be allowed work at Shamrock Rovers, or St. Johnstone; nor am I asking if players from all backgrounds and none have a problem with him, ever had a problem with him or should have a problem with him. I'm not asking about his character, his temperament, what he does on Sundays or what his wife's mother's maiden name is. I'm not asking about literally a thousand things that I don't think are in anway relevant to my point. 

I'm asking is it acceptable for a man who has publicly shown support for an organisation that was involved in sectarian murders in the north of Ireland to manage the international football team based there and could any potential appointment not be deemed divisive.

At this stage it is fairly obvious what you think, but haven't the decency to say so, and this is exactly why I don't bother engaging with you, only when I fancy a bit of fun. 

I'm going to leave it at that, because we are a long way from the thread's origins, but I do expect a three thousand word reply that mentions everything from personal digs at me to jokes by Jimmy Cricket; the one thing I won't every expect from you is a straight answer.
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Who are we up against in the playoff?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 9:18pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Surely Tommy Wright wouldn't do much for inclusivity?

Probably not, but I think it's a bit of a red herring tbh. NI could put whoever they want in charge, it's not going to make nationalists want to play for them as their 1st choice.
We're decent enough..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 9:21pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

It's a simply question Terry, but your refusal to answer it says a lot. I'll try again, but it hasn't been my week to get questions answered! 

Do you think a man who still finds the UDR relevant should be considered to manage Norn Iron?
 
Wow! You're clearly seriously desperate for an answer. Or do I mean bite?

Either way, may I re-direct you eg to Michael O'Neill? You know, the guy who took him to Dublin to coach his players at Shamrock Rovers?

Or Alan Maybury, who applied to work for him at St.Johnstone (and was appointed btw)?

Or any of the literally hundreds of players, coaches and chairmen from all backgrounds he's worked with as a manager in NI, ROI and Scotland, for over two decades, with some success?

Or even any of the numerous journalists who've covered his career who might therefore be in a position to comment?

I daresay that if there's anything in his character or temperament which would make him unsuited, at least one of them might mention it.

Though come to think of it, I don't understand why none of them hasn't done so before now.

Unless of course...



Funnily enough, Maybury is one of the few Protestant ROI footballers I can think of in recent times, so perhaps he was more agreeable to Wright Big smile
We're decent enough..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote daveyc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 9:45pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

You think a man who has worn a UDR poppy would be a good choice for inclusivity then? Interesting. 
Even were I minded to give you a reaction, which Im not, I still wouldn't, such is your obvious need for a bite to distract from your discomfort.

Quit while you're behind would be my advice. LOL

strange move alright 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 9:53pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Surely Tommy Wright wouldn't do much for inclusivity?

Probably not, but I think it's a bit of a red herring tbh. NI could put whoever they want in charge, it's not going to make nationalists want to play for them as their 1st choice.
It isn't just about that though. Players should be allowed to play for who they are eligible for and left at that. As far as I am aware he has never even paid it lip service. Now, I don't think it is relevant for any single other thing he does in his career, bar, possibly manage Norn Iron. I think it is divisive and insensitive, regardless of nationalist players.
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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 10:17pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I'm asking is it acceptable for a man who has publicly shown support for an organisation that was involved in sectarian murders in the north of Ireland to manage the international football team based there and could any potential appointment not be deemed divisive.

Ah, the old "leading question" ploy.

You may think yourself clever, but don't imagine that I'm correspondingly stupid, or at least stupid enough to fall for it.

The fact is, you have absolutely no idea why TW was wearing that badge, or what he meant by it. For all any of us know, it could easily have been in remembrance of a family member or friend from amongst the many thousands who served in the organisation - the Poppy is usually a clue. Indeed it may even have been for one or more of the 250-odd members and former members who were murdered . (Most of us who come from his community and age-range know someone in that category, btw).

Of course, you appear to consider that the badge is in some way endorsing sectarian murder, yet there is no evidence whatever to suggest that TW thinks that way, or anything like it. On the contrary, his long record of working happily and successfully with people from all communities all over these islands over decades, without even a hint of scandal, indicates no such thing. Maybe you know better than them?

Either way, if he does apply for the job, it will be working for an organisation in which 3 of the 4 most senior positions (Chaiman, CEO and COO) are occupied by people with a CNR background.

And I trust them to make their decisions on the basis of known fact, not baseless speculation derived from nothing more than ignorance and prejudice.

(Oh and btw, all words are "made up" - it's how language develops. And I'm pretty sure that "Whataboutery" was first popularised in NI, sorry, the north of Ireland, by a certain Martin McGuinness.)


Edited by Territorial - 09 Jun 2020 at 10:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 10:35pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I'm asking is it acceptable for a man who has publicly shown support for an organisation that was involved in sectarian murders in the north of Ireland to manage the international football team based there and could any potential appointment not be deemed divisive.

Ah, the old "leading question" ploy.

You may think yourself clever, but don't imagine that I'm correspondingly stupid, or at least stupid enough to fall for it.

The fact is, you have absolutely no idea why TW was wearing that badge, or what he meant by it. For all any of us know, it could easily have been in remembrance of a family member or friend from amongst the many thousands who served in the organisation - the Poppy is usually a clue. Indeed it may even have been for one or more of the 250-odd members and former members who were murdered . (Most of us who come from his community and age-range know someone in that category, btw).

Of course, you appear to consider that the badge is in some way endorsing sectarian murder, yet there is no evidence whatever to suggest that TW thinks that way, or anything like it. On the contrary, his long record of working happily and successfully with people from all communities all over these islands over decades, without even a hint of scandal, indicates no such thing. Maybe you know better than them?

Either way, if he does apply for the job, it will be working for an organisation in which 3 of the 4 most senior positions (Chaiman, CEO and COO) are occupied by people with a CNR background.

And I trust them to make their decisions on the basis of known fact, not baseless speculation derived from nothing more than ignorance and prejudice.

(Oh and btw, all words are "made up" - it's how language develops. And I'm pretty sure that "Whataboutery" was first popularised in NI, sorry, the north of Ireland, by a certain Martin McGuinness.)
It isn't leading at all. It is unquestionably endorsing sectarian murder, no matter why he wore it. You can underline, embolden, italicise, post script and put whatever you want in brackets: it won't change that.

I don't care what background people have and what they do. Your obsession with deflection and unrelated trivialities is amazing. 
What is obvious is that you have no problem with the potential Norn Iron manager endorsing sectarian murder, as long as he can justify it to himself. That is profoundly ignorant. 

I am well aware that all words are made up and I couldn't care less who by.  I have used the word myself. My amusement comes from, as I say, your obsession with it. LOL


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote daveyc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 10:35pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I'm asking is it acceptable for a man who has publicly shown support for an organisation that was involved in sectarian murders in the north of Ireland to manage the international football team based there and could any potential appointment not be deemed divisive.

Ah, the old "leading question" ploy.

You may think yourself clever, but don't imagine that I'm correspondingly stupid, or at least stupid enough to fall for it.

The fact is, you have absolutely no idea why TW was wearing that badge, or what he meant by it. For all any of us know, it could easily have been in remembrance of a family member or friend from amongst the many thousands who served in the organisation - the Poppy is usually a clue. Indeed it may even have been for one or more of the 250-odd members and former members who were murdered . (Most of us who come from his community and age-range know someone in that category, btw).

Of course, you appear to consider that the badge is in some way endorsing sectarian murder, yet there is no evidence whatever to suggest that TW thinks that way, or anything like it. On the contrary, his long record of working happily and successfully with people from all communities all over these islands over decades, without even a hint of scandal, indicates no such thing. Maybe you know better than them?

Directly involved in sectarian murder - the  miami showband massacre being one of countless - maybe Tommy should take his head out of his arse  

Either way, if he does apply for the job, it will be working for an organisation in which 3 of the 4 most senior positions (Chaiman, CEO and COO) are occupied by people with a CNR background.

And I trust them to make their decisions on the basis of known fact, not baseless speculation derived from nothing more than ignorance and prejudice.

(Oh and btw, all words are "made up" - it's how language develops. And I'm pretty sure that "Whataboutery" was first popularised in NI, sorry, the north of Ireland, by a certain Martin McGuinness.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote daveyc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I'm asking is it acceptable for a man who has publicly shown support for an organisation that was involved in sectarian murders in the north of Ireland to manage the international football team based there and could any potential appointment not be deemed divisive.

Ah, the old "leading question" ploy.

You may think yourself clever, but don't imagine that I'm correspondingly stupid, or at least stupid enough to fall for it.

The fact is, you have absolutely no idea why TW was wearing that badge, or what he meant by it. For all any of us know, it could easily have been in remembrance of a family member or friend from amongst the many thousands who served in the organisation - the Poppy is usually a clue. Indeed it may even have been for one or more of the 250-odd members and former members who were murdered . (Most of us who come from his community and age-range know someone in that category, btw).

Of course, you appear to consider that the badge is in some way endorsing sectarian murder, yet there is no evidence whatever to suggest that TW thinks that way, or anything like it. On the contrary, his long record of working happily and successfully with people from all communities all over these islands over decades, without even a hint of scandal, indicates no such thing. Maybe you know better than them?

Either way, if he does apply for the job, it will be working for an organisation in which 3 of the 4 most senior positions (Chaiman, CEO and COO) are occupied by people with a CNR background.

And I trust them to make their decisions on the basis of known fact, not baseless speculation derived from nothing more than ignorance and prejudice.

(Oh and btw, all words are "made up" - it's how language develops. And I'm pretty sure that "Whataboutery" was first popularised in NI, sorry, the north of Ireland, by a certain Martin McGuinness.)

directly involved in sectarian murder - the miami showband massacre being one of countless - maybe Tommy needs to take his head out of his arse 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 10:46pm
Yeah, but he might have been wearing it for his uncle; who would have been a sectarian murderer. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 11:10pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

It isn't leading at all. It is unquestionably endorsing sectarian murder, no matter why he wore it. You can underline, embolden, italicise, post script and put whatever you want in brackets: it won't change that.
My (Scottish) neighbour is a regular, practising Catholic. She wears a crucifix round her neck and a badge on her lapel to reflect that.

Should I presume therefore that she endorses child abuse, on the basis that a (tiny) minority of priests and nuns abused children, whilst the hierarchy didn't always do all it could to stamp it out?

I don't of course, and never would, and not because she's obviously a pleasant and kindly woman. Rather it's because it is outrageous to interpret such symbols to fit some pre-existing prejudice, all the more so if it's someone you don't even know.

(And before you say it, that's not Whataboutery, it's Analogy)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 11:15pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

It isn't leading at all. It is unquestionably endorsing sectarian murder, no matter why he wore it. You can underline, embolden, italicise, post script and put whatever you want in brackets: it won't change that.
My (Scottish) neighbour is a regular, practising Catholic. She wears a crucifix round her neck and a badge on her lapel to reflect that.

Should I presume therefore that she endorses child abuse, on the basis that a (tiny) minority of priests and nuns abused children, whilst the hierarchy didn't always do all it could to stamp it out?

I don't of course, and never would, and not because she's obviously a pleasant and kindly woman. Rather it's because it is outrageous to interpret such symbols to fit some pre-existing prejudice, all the more so if it's someone you don't even know.

(And before you say it, that's not Whataboutery, it's Analogy)
It's certainly something, I will give you that! I wouldn't say it is a whataboutery or an analogy. I would say it is a f**king poor effort at getting yourself out of a hole. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 11:18pm
LOL
Just to be clear here: wearing a religious symbol(regardless of how questionable the religion is; I'm sure we would agree there) is comparable to wearing, proudly, the symbol of an organisation set-up to murder Irish people of that religion?

Peak Territorial. ClapClapClapClap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 11:47pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

It isn't leading at all. It is unquestionably endorsing sectarian murder, no matter why he wore it. You can underline, embolden, italicise, post script and put whatever you want in brackets: it won't change that.
My (Scottish) neighbour is a regular, practising Catholic. She wears a crucifix round her neck and a badge on her lapel to reflect that.

Should I presume therefore that she endorses child abuse, on the basis that a (tiny) minority of priests and nuns abused children, whilst the hierarchy didn't always do all it could to stamp it out?

I don't of course, and never would, and not because she's obviously a pleasant and kindly woman. Rather it's because it is outrageous to interpret such symbols to fit some pre-existing prejudice, all the more so if it's someone you don't even know.

(And before you say it, that's not Whataboutery, it's Analogy)
It's certainly something, I will give you that! I wouldn't say it is a whataboutery or an analogy. I would say it is a f**king poor effort at getting yourself out of a hole. LOL

Well you would say that. woudln't you?

You know, in the absence of a proper answer to my question.
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