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Het-field 
Roy Keane 
By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Online Points: 10536 |
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 Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 5:00pm |
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Sid, that’s not my point. There is a argument which has been put forward about water fluoridation which doesn't have the connotations that appeared in the tweet.
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sid waddell
Roy Keane
On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 5:00pm |
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It's undoubtedly true. Israel calls itself a Jewish state, the Jewish state. That is to say that Judaism is indivisible from the identity of Israel. So if it's a Jewish state and you oppose Israeli policies and actions, by definition that makes you an anti-Semite, at least that's the aim. Now it's a case of statin' the bleedin' obvious to anybody who follows the Israel-Palestine siituation in even a cursory manner that no two state solution is possible. Yet that's an elephant in the room that must nobody must ever mention. It's also a case of statin' the bleedin' obvious that the only feasible solution is a one state solution or a one state solution of a federal nature like Bosnia. Yet if you state this, you have fallen foul of the most vacuous canard around - you "deny Israel's right to exist" and are therefore an anti-Semite. So basically anybody who recognises that a two state solution is impossible because of Israel's actions in planting a million people on hilltops all over the West Bank, and says that any form of one state solution is the only remaining possibility of ever coming to a settlement, is "an anti-Semite". Anybody who recognises reality is "an anti-Semite". |
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sid waddell
Roy Keane
On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 5:03pm |
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I'm not sure what your point is. Fine Gael have literally stood on an anti-science platform in a general election and FF have at least one TD who has dived off the crazy pier on the same topic. Sure Cronin might be a bit batsh*t. But she sure ain't the only one.
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Het-field
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Online Points: 10536 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 5:06pm |
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There is the opposition to fluoridation based on a conspiracy theory that it is done to influence the public. Which along with being anti-science is more insidious.
I don’t have any respect for either argument, but I will certainly rank them in order of stupidity.
Edited by Het-field - 19 Feb 2020 at 5:07pm |
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sid waddell
Roy Keane
On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 5:13pm |
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Em, the Fianna Fail guy said it was "wrong mass medication". That sounds pretty conspiracist to me. As does much of Fine Gael's 2002 manifesto. And the guy who led that party then was only the Minister for Finance from 2011 to 2017. Sinn Fein definitely have some wackos in their new Dail intake. They aren't alone in that. It would be nice too if Blue Hugh had pointed out that the source of the story itself a haven for anti-Semites. It doesn't nean the story is false, but neither is it false that it originated from an anti-Semtic source, Gript. The story about Lorraine Clifford-Lee's social media posts wasn't false either, but again the irony is that it originated from a far, far worse naked racist and fascist, a certain Ms. Gemtrails. I do find it ironic that that far right are now weaponising racism and anti-Semitism - all the exact same things they are absolute true believers in. |
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Het-field
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Online Points: 10536 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 5:18pm |
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In fact, The Times initially raised a story about her tweets.
“Wrong Mass Medication” while wrong and ridiculous, doesn’t carry nearly the same connotation of conspiracy theory as the making us docile argument, which has been surrounding the fringe fluoridation debate for years.
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sid waddell
Roy Keane
On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 5:24pm |
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It was actually Gemtrails who dug up Clifford-Lee's stuff because she was standing in the same by-election and the wider media got wind of it from that. "Wrong mass medication" is batsh*t stuff. But presumably less batsh*t because it comes from a "respectable" FFer. Sinn Fein are so uncouth, aren't they. If people from different parties say the same thing, it's always worse coming from a Sinn Feiner, well, because they're a bit, well, you know, low class, aren't they, they're ne'er do wells you wouldn't want your sons and daughters hanging around with, whereas the same thing is far less less threatening from FGers and FFers because they're inherently, well, decent, aren't they. Or something.
Edited by sid waddell - 19 Feb 2020 at 5:25pm |
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Het-field
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Online Points: 10536 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 5:27pm |
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I never said any of that. Any of it.
The reason it’s different is because the thrust of what is being said is different. It would be akin to asking for the removal of contrails for environmental reasons. It would be wrong and ridiculous, but it would be different to the claim that “chemtrails” actually impact our mental faculties. The latter is more ridiculous, more wrong, and definitely more dangerous. It is a spectrum or a hierarchy. Both can be wrong but can have different impacts. So it is inherently saying something different.
Edited by Het-field - 19 Feb 2020 at 6:20pm |
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Martiponti
Kevin Kilbane 
Joined: 23 Dec 2018 Location: Montreal Status: Offline Points: 364 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 6:53pm |
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Jeez, you talk so much bull! Why don't you just say it: "I hate SF becausr they threaten the system that helped (but not for much longer) a mediocre guy like me, who couldn't have swung by his own tail. I don't want a united Ireland because it'll bring an end to the little system that has favoured me this far" Just spit it out and bring to an end the pseudo intellectual "reasoned" arguement that you try to disguise your mediocrity with. PERIOD You have even given yourself a doublebarrelled username! For crying out....
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Het-field
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Online Points: 10536 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 8:06pm |
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What contradictory, small minded garbage. Awful post.
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane
I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 8:10pm |
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Surely it is small-minded rubbish? Unless you are in the US of .
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Martiponti
Kevin Kilbane
Joined: 23 Dec 2018 Location: Montreal Status: Offline Points: 364 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 8:12pm |
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Het-field
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Online Points: 10536 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 8:14pm |
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It’s spelt “God”.
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daithi
Roy Keane
Joined: 17 Oct 2010 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 10309 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 8:14pm |
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 could you imagine hetty Terri and Hans having their own forum 
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Just because it's tradition does not make it right
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane
I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 8:30pm |
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I assume it was a deliberate phonetic spelling of the North American pronunciation.
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The Huntacha
Roy Keane
Joined: 27 Mar 2012 Location: Dubai Status: Offline Points: 12754 |
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Posted: 20 Feb 2020 at 6:44am |
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Het, you can deny it as much as you like, but it's blatantly moving the goalposts to suit your view. |
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Jimmy Bullard - "Favorite band? Elastic."
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Het-field
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Online Points: 10536 |
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Posted: 20 Feb 2020 at 10:02am |
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It’s not shifting the goalposts. There is a fundamental commonality between the positions in the links Sid provided, and what was said by Cronin. But in on of the tweets her position when further into the more conspiracy theoretical aspect of water fluoridation. Across the board, the positions are wrong and ridiculous. But her tweet speaks of something more insidious. It’s a different direction in an argument which is laced with stupidity.
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sid waddell
Roy Keane
On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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Posted: 20 Feb 2020 at 12:38pm |
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Thread by Philip O'Connor: One of the problems with the targeting of Réada Cronin is that it promotes the idea that if everyone is racist or anti-Semitic, then that makes it OK for everyone to be so.
Make no mistake - some of Cronin's tweets were anti Semitic, but the purpose of pointing them out is .not to highlight the evil of anti-Semitism, it is to silence a political opponent. The conflation of criticism of Israel as being in and of itself anti-Semitic serves as a kind of "information pollution", making it difficult, if not impossible, to examine what she said. Cronin's anti-Semitic tweets contain age-old tropes and conspiracy theories that have no place in modern political discourse & are typical of the knee-jerk reaction of many to the oppression of the Palestinian people, but racism or anti-Semitism are not single, specific things. They are complicated, multi-faceted, nuanced and extremely toxic ideas that borrow freely from each other and that require both condemnation and honest, robust examination.
That honest and robust examination is unlikely to come from the far right, whose only interest is in discrediting and disarming opponents while at the same time normalising this kind of rhetoric ("the left are also racist"/"anti-fascists are the real fascists"). Sinn Féin and many others now need to examine their ranks to see if assess if their efforts to combat racism & anti-Semitism are enough (Cronin's case would suggest they aren't). But we must also examine those who seek to weaponise racism & anti-Semitism solely for political gain, and who have no real interest in those issues other than as a means of gaining a political advantage.
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