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Robbie Keane
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Points: 32779 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2020 at 8:57am
Originally posted by Deane Deane wrote:

Where does one register to vote? Online I only see a form for 2018/2019

Contact your council's franchise section.  Whatever you local county council is. 
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Robbie Keane
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I believe it is an awful pain in the arse at home compared to here. Although I am still on the register, despite not having even being to Ireland in four years.
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"This section should be completed by a member of the Garda Síochána from the applicant’s local Garda Station."

Such hassle
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

They haven’t been there for a long time. They are what I would describe as Liberal. They disowned their traditions a long, long time ago. Just because many other European ‘socialist’ parties have taken the same shift, with disastrous results, doesn’t change that.

And no parts of FF have ever been within a country mile of it! The broadchurch nationalism if SF is a mixture of all from left to right and there isn’t much I could agree with the SDs on. The Overton window has shifted so far right that it confuses people as to what the centre-left actually is. When you have people throwing out ‘Trots’ as an insult in 2020 you know there is a problem.

If you’re referring to my post mentioning the Trots, that wasn’t meant as an insult. The history of the Socialist Party and SWP, which was the original home for some of these people were certainly Trotskyite. And the Irish hard left spends most of its time calling each other Trotskyites.
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Robbie Keane
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I think you are confusing communism with socialism. I also think the centre-left is completely bare.

I dont think I am.  key difference as I see it is who owns and controls the means of production.  In socialism the key industries are owned by the state. 

The social democratic parties are not trying to change this on a large scale, but instead use the tax system to transfer the wealth.  

I think some parts of FF, SF and Labour and Greens are fishing in a similar pool which is where many Irish people are which is that the state does not control the means of production but distributes it via the tax system.  


There is probably 15% max support for socialist policies in Ireland. 
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Robbie Keane
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Originally posted by Deane Deane wrote:

"This section should be completed by a member of the Garda Síochána from the applicant’s local Garda Station."

Such hassle

What's your alternative in someone registering to vote.
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Robbie Keane
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Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Deane Deane wrote:

"This section should be completed by a member of the Garda Síochána from the applicant’s local Garda Station."

Such hassle

What's your alternative in someone registering to vote.
Online form here, takes a minute.
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Robbie Keane
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And who signs off on it.  What's to stop someone registering who is not entitled to. 
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Robbie Keane
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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

They haven’t been there for a long time. They are what I would describe as Liberal. They disowned their traditions a long, long time ago. Just because many other European ‘socialist’ parties have taken the same shift, with disastrous results, doesn’t change that.

And no parts of FF have ever been within a country mile of it! The broadchurch nationalism if SF is a mixture of all from left to right and there isn’t much I could agree with the SDs on. The Overton window has shifted so far right that it confuses people as to what the centre-left actually is. When you have people throwing out ‘Trots’ as an insult in 2020 you know there is a problem.

If you’re referring to my post mentioning the Trots, that wasn’t meant as an insult. The history of the Socialist Party and SWP, which was the original home for some of these people were certainly Trotskyite. And the Irish hard left spends most of its time calling each other Trotskyites.
I have no problem with that term, I have a lot of respect for it. ‘Trots’ is most definitely a tabloid insult.
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Robbie Keane
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Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I think you are confusing communism with socialism. I also think the centre-left is completely bare.

I dont think I am.  key difference as I see it is who owns and controls the means of production.  In socialism the key industries are owned by the state. 

The social democratic parties are not trying to change this on a large scale, but instead use the tax system to transfer the wealth.  

I think some parts of FF, SF and Labour and Greens are fishing in a similar pool which is where many Irish people are which is that the state does not control the means of production but distributes it via the tax system.  


There is probably 15% max support for socialist policies in Ireland. 

That was how it read. I’m not going to drag this into a debate on ideology, as it is pointless in Ireland. Until we fully remove the grip of the Vatican anyway. 
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my understanding is that in communism it's not just key industries but all industries owned by the state.   Private property etc is gone whereas in socialism it's not.  

I think Corbyn had a socialist manifesto not a social democratic one.  I think Blair had a centre right manifesto like Macron in France and not Social Democratic ones which you see in Denmark and Finland and Germany etc.
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I think you are confusing communism with socialism. I also think the centre-left is completely bare.

I dont think I am.  key difference as I see it is who owns and controls the means of production.  In socialism the key industries are owned by the state. 

The social democratic parties are not trying to change this on a large scale, but instead use the tax system to transfer the wealth.  

I think some parts of FF, SF and Labour and Greens are fishing in a similar pool which is where many Irish people are which is that the state does not control the means of production but distributes it via the tax system.  


There is probably 15% max support for socialist policies in Ireland. 


Ultimately, Ireland is a small enough country that “centrist” parties can raise spending or shift to the left fiscally on an election by election basis. 2007 was a year of auction politics. Bertie’s speech at the FF Ard Fheis made numerous promises. The metric was spending and who could outspend the other.

Nationalism in the country is revolutionary as opposed to reactionary, hence the far right make little or no inroads save for occasional noteworthy electoral performances.

The smaller the country within the EU the easier it is for the established parties to blow the right way.
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

They haven’t been there for a long time. They are what I would describe as Liberal. They disowned their traditions a long, long time ago. Just because many other European ‘socialist’ parties have taken the same shift, with disastrous results, doesn’t change that.

And no parts of FF have ever been within a country mile of it! The broadchurch nationalism if SF is a mixture of all from left to right and there isn’t much I could agree with the SDs on. The Overton window has shifted so far right that it confuses people as to what the centre-left actually is. When you have people throwing out ‘Trots’ as an insult in 2020 you know there is a problem.

If you’re referring to my post mentioning the Trots, that wasn’t meant as an insult. The history of the Socialist Party and SWP, which was the original home for some of these people were certainly Trotskyite. And the Irish hard left spends most of its time calling each other Trotskyites.
I have no problem with that term, I have a lot of respect for it. ‘Trots’ is most definitely a tabloid insult.

Well, i didn’t mean it that way. It was a statement rather than an insult.
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Robbie Keane
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Fair enough, that’s how it came across.
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Robbie Keane
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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I think you are confusing communism with socialism. I also think the centre-left is completely bare.

I dont think I am.  key difference as I see it is who owns and controls the means of production.  In socialism the key industries are owned by the state. 

The social democratic parties are not trying to change this on a large scale, but instead use the tax system to transfer the wealth.  

I think some parts of FF, SF and Labour and Greens are fishing in a similar pool which is where many Irish people are which is that the state does not control the means of production but distributes it via the tax system.  


There is probably 15% max support for socialist policies in Ireland. 


Ultimately, Ireland is a small enough country that “centrist” parties can raise spending or shift to the left fiscally on an election by election basis. 2007 was a year of auction politics. Bertie’s speech at the FF Ard Fheis made numerous promises. The metric was spending and who could outspend the other.

Nationalism in the country is revolutionary as opposed to reactionary, hence the far right make little or no inroads save for occasional noteworthy electoral performances.

The smaller the country within the EU the easier it is for the established parties to blow the right way.

Spending money while having low taxes is not left wing its populist. 
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Robbie Keane
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Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

my understanding is that in communism it's not just key industries but all industries owned by the state.   Private property etc is gone whereas in socialism it's not.  

I think Corbyn had a socialist manifesto not a social democratic one.  I think Blair had a centre right manifesto like Macron in France and not Social Democratic ones which you see in Denmark and Finland and Germany etc.
Corbyn’s position was very much to the right of the Norwegian and Danish parties of similar view and history. I’m not sure about Finland.
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Fair enough, that’s how it came across.

Calling the likes of Corbyn etc “Trots” would definitely be derogatory and tabloidy. But the Irish left (SP/SWP) was all of the Trotskyite mindset. I can remember which one, but one or the other was affiliated to and international Trotskyite group.
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I think you are confusing communism with socialism. I also think the centre-left is completely bare.

I dont think I am.  key difference as I see it is who owns and controls the means of production.  In socialism the key industries are owned by the state. 

The social democratic parties are not trying to change this on a large scale, but instead use the tax system to transfer the wealth.  

I think some parts of FF, SF and Labour and Greens are fishing in a similar pool which is where many Irish people are which is that the state does not control the means of production but distributes it via the tax system.  


There is probably 15% max support for socialist policies in Ireland. 


Ultimately, Ireland is a small enough country that “centrist” parties can raise spending or shift to the left fiscally on an election by election basis. 2007 was a year of auction politics. Bertie’s speech at the FF Ard Fheis made numerous promises. The metric was spending and who could outspend the other.

Nationalism in the country is revolutionary as opposed to reactionary, hence the far right make little or no inroads save for occasional noteworthy electoral performances.

The smaller the country within the EU the easier it is for the established parties to blow the right way.

Spending money while having low taxes is not left wing its populist. 

True, but it depends on what you mean by low taxes. When you actually look at the Irish taxation system, personal taxes are actually quite high and we confuse it with the corporation tax rate.
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