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Green Cockade View Drop Down
Liam Brady
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Cockade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2021 at 1:27pm
Murphy set up a new leftist party called RISE which never took off and is now presumably merged with PBP. He left the Socialist Party following a split arising from their long time general secretary Peter Taafe denouncing Murphy and others in Ireland getting involved too much in what Taafe's wing called identity politics, e.g. feminist issues and the like, rather than focusing on infiltration of trade unions and the Labour movement generally. The split was reminiscent of the Judean Popular Front / People's Front of Judea dispute immortalised in Monty Python's "Life of Brian." As for the rivalries between the Socialist Party and the SWP ( rebranded as PBP ), books have been written about this, I kid you not. In the north, at least, there has been utter hatred of each other despite the common Trotskyist ideology. The Socialist Party has consistently been the more toxic of the two. They have produced some egregiously poisonous monomaniacs at leadership level who have never been elected to anything politically. PBP in contrast have I think a couple of MLAs now and one respected veteran of the Civil Rights era in Eamonn McCann, though he has recently had to retire from Derry City Council for health reasons.
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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2021 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

PBP were correct on this

It wasn't about perfection at all

It was about recognising the central reality that you couldn't live with Covid

Failure to recognise that = doomed policy

What we got: doomed policy

PBP were right and the government and other parties were wrong



Of course it was about perfection, and ideologically driven perfection at that. If you read the roadmap, it included things like dropping fines for people visiting each others houses (when community transmission is undoubtedly a major part of what created the post Christmas numbers), policy that would have created a wedge between the Pharma companies and government (which has the potential of tying the vaccine rollout up in litigation), and the usual "make the corporations pay for it".

Covid prevention strategies can also be evaluated against their logistics, and that includes simplistic blurbs about All Ireland policy (which has political ramifications). Slapping the term"Zero Covid" on that doesnt make it commendable. 
I'm sorry but they were correct

Zero Covid has proven to work elsewhere

The decisions that decided it couldn't work here were artificial man made ones

And because of those decisions, we are where we are - and nobody is happy with where we are

To argue against zero Covid is to argue that our policy for the last year has been the best we could have got

But that's ludicrous -  because the government are now quietly adopting recommendations of the zero Covid people

NPHET demanded hotel quarantine last May

The government told them to do one

Again, this comes back to the central dividing line - zero Covid advocates recognised the epidemiological reality - that you could not live with Covid

Government maintained you could live with Covid - they were squarely wrong on this

That's what it comes down to - recognition of epidemiological reality

And PBP were the only party who recognised it from the off

What you are doing here is as follows: you hate PBP, but you know they got it right

When somebody you hate says something correct, the natural reaction is to twist and turn and spin and bargain into forming any sort of oul' narrative that denies the central reality that they were right

That's what you are doing

But there's no spin that can mask the reality










Edited by sid waddell - 04 Mar 2021 at 1:42pm
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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2021 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

I'm sorry but they were correct

Zero Covid has proven to work elsewhere

The decisions that decided it couldn't work here were artificial man made ones

And because of those decisions, we are where we are - and nobody is happy with where we are

To argue against zero Covid is to argue that our policy for the last year has been the best we could have got

But that's ludicrous -  because the government are now quietly adopting recommendations of the zero Covid people

NPHET demanded hotel quarantine last May

The government told them to do one

Again, this comes back to the central dividing line - zero Covid advocates recognised the epidemiological reality - that you could not live with Covid

Government maintained you could live with Covid - they were squarely wrong on this

That's what it comes down to - recognition of epidemiological reality

And PBP were the only party who recognised it from the off

What you are doing here is as follows: you hate PBP, but you know they got it right

When somebody you hate says something correct, the natural reaction is to twist and turn and spin and bargain into forming any sort of oul' narrative that denies the central reality that they were right

That's what you are doing

But there's no spin that can mask the reality









I'm not doing anything of the sort. NEPHET have questioned the efficacy of Zero Covid based on the relevant geo political factors at play, and things that are immovable. What is unifying about Zero-Covid situations is the prevailing geo-political factors, and in the case of Asia education due to their historic difficulties with SARS related illness and epidemic.

I'm not spinning anything. I just see it for what it is, which is to slap the words Zero Covid on a strategy which has a number of the ideological tropes that come with any position PBP take. And that doesnt even factor in the removal of fines for activity which undoubtedly contributes to community transmission, thus removing a clear effort at deterring people from going into houses

I really think you haven't read the roadmap as published, nor have you considered the ramifications of some of their suggestions.
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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2021 at 1:57pm
People can question zero Covid/aggressive suppression all they want 

But we can see how effective it is - because it is working elsewhere

It is not perfect and far from it and it involved draconian sacrifices to get there - but it gives the people in the countries where it is working a very good degree of normality, so that they can live their lives

We are living with draconian sacrifices right now with no end in sight, and no end goal, so at the end of it, we don't know if we'll all have to go through it all yet again

This is failed policy


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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2021 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

People can question zero Covid/aggressive suppression all they want 

But we can see how effective it is - because it is working elsewhere

It is not perfect and far from it and it involved draconian sacrifices to get there - but it gives the people in the countries where it is working a very good degree of normality, so that they can live their lives

We are living with draconian sacrifices right now with no end in sight, and no end goal, so at the end of it, we don't know if we'll all have to go through it all yet again

This is failed policy



Zero covid works where the geo-political and historical factors favour it. I support the idea of zero-covid, but to my mind, there are three key aspects of that. First Lockdown. Second Education. Third Vaccination. And that is the way the unfavourable geo-political aspects will be overcome. 

I was interested how Jacinda Arden very courageously said that people were not isolating when they needed to be, and that was an issue with the small resurgence in NZ last week. The likes of PBP wouldn't do that with the default "society isn't to blame" mantra, in spite of the fact that the massive resurgence post Christmas was a product of mass community transmission at Christmas time. Equally, NZ or Australia are not obsessing about the potential profit Pharma Companies might make for the hard work done over the past year (while PBP want to take it into public control, undoubtedly for ideological reasoning - and of course they have a meaningless slogan for that i.e. "The People's Vaccine".

Basically, my view is PBP have the slogan, but not the policy, and as a result, I won't applaud them as though they were ahead of the game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jackal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2021 at 1:56pm
Anyone know how Irish MEPs voted when the EU lifted the Catalan leader's immunity? Can't find it online.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NewtNewbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2021 at 4:52pm
Saying you're 'Zero COVID' is as vacuous and meaningless as saying you're 'pro world peace' or 'anti world hunger'. Vapid, fatuous bollocks. f**king hell; as if anyone's Pro-COVID... 

The H3N2 Hong Kong strain of flu from 1968 is still with us. The H1N1 Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918 that cost 50,000,000 (fifty million) lives is still with us.

Anyone coming out with that kind of sh*te may as well be a bleach-blonde, south-Kansas beauty pageant contestant. 

Is this what discourse on this issue has really degenerated into?

'COVID19? Down with that sort of thing!'
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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2021 at 5:19pm
Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

Saying you're 'Zero COVID' is as vacuous and meaningless as saying you're 'pro world peace' or 'anti world hunger'. Vapid, fatuous bollocks. f**king hell; as if anyone's Pro-COVID... 

The H3N2 Hong Kong strain of flu from 1968 is still with us. The H1N1 Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918 that cost 50,000,000 (fifty million) lives is still with us.

Anyone coming out with that kind of sh*te may as well be a bleach-blonde, south-Kansas beauty pageant contestant. 

Is this what discourse on this issue has really degenerated into?

'COVID19? Down with that sort of thing!'
Are you Gary Dempsey? LOL
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Liam Brady
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NewtNewbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2021 at 5:50pm
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

Saying you're 'Zero COVID' is as vacuous and meaningless as saying you're 'pro world peace' or 'anti world hunger'. Vapid, fatuous bollocks. f**king hell; as if anyone's Pro-COVID... 

The H3N2 Hong Kong strain of flu from 1968 is still with us. The H1N1 Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918 that cost 50,000,000 (fifty million) lives is still with us.

Anyone coming out with that kind of sh*te may as well be a bleach-blonde, south-Kansas beauty pageant contestant. 

Is this what discourse on this issue has really degenerated into?

'COVID19? Down with that sort of thing!'
Are you Gary Dempsey? LOL

Isn't he a DJ?  Maybe I've been out of Ireland too long. 

Anyway, no persuasive argument or reasoning, as ever. Just the usual hive-minded, knee-jerk, liberal response.

I bet you creamed your kecks when the Biden regime bombed Syria.

Needless to say, you've got no moral authority on any issue whatever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrendanD88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2021 at 6:23pm
Leo making a fool out of himself again today. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldbilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2021 at 8:19pm
a total gobsh*te.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2021 at 9:13pm
Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Leo making a fool out of himself again today. 

The staunchly Unionist Newsletter are siding with SF on this one. 

It really is bottom of the barrel stuff - expected though.


It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me,
He wouldn't set me free,
So he kept me soul for ransom.
na na na na na na na na na
na na na na na na na na.
I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 9fingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2021 at 9:37pm
Did FG not run some private party opinion poll a while back which said to tone down the SF nonsense? 


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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2021 at 9:56pm
Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

Saying you're 'Zero COVID' is as vacuous and meaningless as saying you're 'pro world peace' or 'anti world hunger'. Vapid, fatuous bollocks. f**king hell; as if anyone's Pro-COVID... 

The H3N2 Hong Kong strain of flu from 1968 is still with us. The H1N1 Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918 that cost 50,000,000 (fifty million) lives is still with us.

Anyone coming out with that kind of sh*te may as well be a bleach-blonde, south-Kansas beauty pageant contestant. 

Is this what discourse on this issue has really degenerated into?

'COVID19? Down with that sort of thing!'
Are you Gary Dempsey? LOL

Isn't he a DJ?  Maybe I've been out of Ireland too long. 

Anyway, no persuasive argument or reasoning, as ever. Just the usual hive-minded, knee-jerk, liberal response.

I bet you creamed your kecks when the Biden regime bombed Syria.

Needless to say, you've got no moral authority on any issue whatever.
Go and have a lie down, Tankie
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Liam Brady
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NewtNewbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2021 at 10:37pm
As a repost, typically pathetic.

But this is an Irish football forum, I guess...
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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2021 at 10:50pm
Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

As a repost, typically pathetic.

But this is an Irish football forum, I guess...
I think you mean riposte, not repost, mate

I don't repost other people's posts

This isn't Twitter


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seanyshuffler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2021 at 11:17pm
What's up that bbc nolan show. Like a politics show with a quiz setting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2021 at 11:20pm
Originally posted by seanyshuffler seanyshuffler wrote:

What's up that bbc nolan show. Like a politics show with a quiz setting.

They do it once every so often, with school kids on asking the questions 
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