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oldbilly View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
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we don’t have a “prime minister”.
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once again a debate on forming a new government finishes with a debate on the IRA and killings. Jaysus the Dup are sharing power with Sinn Fein and FF FG won’t even talk with them. Who decides to bring out Paul Williams and finish the discussion talking about Ira violence? It’s a joke at this stage!
I could agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by reddladd reddladd wrote:

once again a debate on forming a new government finishes with a debate on the IRA and killings. Jaysus the Dup are sharing power with Sinn Fein and FF FG won’t even talk with them. Who decides to bring out Paul Williams and finish the discussion talking about Ira violence? It’s a joke at this stage!
The difference between Ireland in England is that in England, wheeling out a blowhard like Williams or his English equivalent to smear Labour actually works. In Ireland, it only pushes people towards Sinn Fein.
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Jack Charlton
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Points: 6945 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reddladd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2020 at 12:05am
Yes but who is pulling the strings to bring Williams on to the show to start the debate( if you could call it a debate) and then a woman who graphically recalls the killing of her parent. I have the greatest of sympathy for the woman but the Claire Byrne show has a lot to answer for using her like that. 
I could agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by reddladd reddladd wrote:

Yes but who is pulling the strings to bring Williams on to the show to start the debate( if you could call it a debate) and then a woman who graphically recalls the killing of her parent. I have the greatest of sympathy for the woman but the Claire Byrne show has a lot to answer for using her like that. 

Why does it have a lot to answer for? 

People may wish to tell their story, as was the case with Paul Quinn. People take particular note at election time. We had one poster tell us here that the media would totally drop all this after the election, which hasn’t happened.


Edited by Het-field - 18 Feb 2020 at 9:48am
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:


If young people cared about what happened in the Troubles, they wouldn't be flocking to Sinn Fein in such numbers. They may know about what the IRA did, they may not, but either way they're either bllissfully ignorant, prepared to overlook it, or may actually be prepared to retrospectively support it.




This sums up my view on the “youth quake” behind SF. As I said, historical and cultural matters have guided the progressive movement this decade. The Equal Marriage vote and Repeal the 8th vote was very much guided by Ireland’s extremely poor history in these matters, and the treatment that the people most impacted by laws in the area, suffered. The same mindset was prevalent in non voting matters such as protests surrounding the Pope’s visit to Ireland in 2018. Historical treatment was at the forefront of the frustration and anger.

But for some reason, this has not extended to this election. To see online progressives parrot the line that victim’s families are being “used” would be something they would habitually get very annoyed about. And that leaves aside the fact that the manifesto is simply not progressive, which would suggest the youth voters are not nearly as engaged as they let on, and are just as prone to accepting soundbytes and image.
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Liam Brady
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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by reddladd reddladd wrote:

Yes but who is pulling the strings to bring Williams on to the show to start the debate( if you could call it a debate) and then a woman who graphically recalls the killing of her parent. I have the greatest of sympathy for the woman but the Claire Byrne show has a lot to answer for using her like that. 

Why does it have a lot to answer for? 

People may wish to tell their story, as was the case with Paul Quinn. People take particular note at election time. We had one poster tell us here that the media would totally drop all this after the election, which hasn’t happened.
 
One reason why it hasn't been dropped. Sinn Fein did much better than expected and there is still a chance they will be in Government when all is said and done. And so it hasn't been dropped.
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Roy Keane
Roy Keane

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The consensus of some on here was that it would be dropped, and regardless of why, it hasn’t.

And I’m not surprised. Some victim’s families see this as an opportunity for redress.
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Liam Brady
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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:


If young people cared about what happened in the Troubles, they wouldn't be flocking to Sinn Fein in such numbers. They may know about what the IRA did, they may not, but either way they're either bllissfully ignorant, prepared to overlook it, or may actually be prepared to retrospectively support it.




This sums up my view on the “youth quake” behind SF. As I said, historical and cultural matters have guided the progressive movement this decade. The Equal Marriage vote and Repeal the 8th vote was very much guided by Ireland’s extremely poor history in these matters, and the treatment that the people most impacted by laws in the area, suffered. The same mindset was prevalent in non voting matters such as protests surrounding the Pope’s visit to Ireland in 2018. Historical treatment was at the forefront of the frustration and anger.

But for some reason, this has not extended to this election. To see online progressives parrot the line that victim’s families are being “used” would be something they would habitually get very annoyed about. And that leaves aside the fact that the manifesto is simply not progressive, which would suggest the youth voters are not nearly as engaged as they let on, and are just as prone to accepting soundbytes and image.
 
 
I think that is very harsh on the youth. And besides that SF was the biggest party amongst all age groups under 65. That is being willfully ignored. The simple fact is families are getting squeezed, rents are sky high and the lower and middle classes are not feeling the benefits of the seemingly turbo boosted economy. And so they looked around for change and FF and FG were propping each other up for the last four years. Labour sold out their supporters with water charges and are getting the Lib Dems treatment. Simple fact is that as the Troubles recede into history people are less and less concerned with what happened. Gerry is gone. McGuinness is dead. Ferris is gone. The old guys are dying off. Housing especially now seems to be the key issue.
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Roy Keane
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I accept that the voting demographics for SF were wider than just the youth. That is true and I agree it’s overlooked. But the youth vote was very favourable to SF. And, there are other parties without the same baggage that offer solutions to problems like housing and rent.
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

I accept that the voting demographics for SF were wider than just the youth. That is true and I agree it’s overlooked. But the youth vote was very favourable to SF. And, there are other parties without the same baggage that offer solutions to problems like housing and rent.
 
Alas, those other parties dont have the same electoral mandate as SF....
" BFC always gives me a laugh........ "
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Liam Brady
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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

I accept that the voting demographics for SF were wider than just the youth. That is true and I agree it’s overlooked. But the youth vote was very favourable to SF. And, there are other parties without the same baggage that offer solutions to problems like housing and rent.


Which parties offer solutions to the housing and rent problem? Not FF or FG who have made a complete mess of it. No other party on the left has the mandate SF has.
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

I accept that the voting demographics for SF were wider than just the youth. That is true and I agree it’s overlooked. But the youth vote was very favourable to SF. And, there are other parties without the same baggage that offer solutions to problems like housing and rent.
 
Alas, those other parties dont have the same electoral mandate as SF....

That’s not really an answer though. And I’m more convinced than ever that the split vote has created such similar outcomes that there is no clear mandate, or lack of mandate for most parties.
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

I accept that the voting demographics for SF were wider than just the youth. That is true and I agree it’s overlooked. But the youth vote was very favourable to SF. And, there are other parties without the same baggage that offer solutions to problems like housing and rent.


Which parties offer solutions to the housing and rent problem? Not FF or FG who have made a complete mess of it. No other party on the left has the mandate SF has.

I’d certainly question SF being on the left.
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Paul McGrath
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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

I accept that the voting demographics for SF were wider than just the youth. That is true and I agree it’s overlooked. But the youth vote was very favourable to SF. And, there are other parties without the same baggage that offer solutions to problems like housing and rent.


Which parties offer solutions to the housing and rent problem? Not FF or FG who have made a complete mess of it. No other party on the left has the mandate SF has.

I’d certainly question SF being on the left.

Really? That’s the first you’ve mentioned it 
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Liam Brady
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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

I accept that the voting demographics for SF were wider than just the youth. That is true and I agree it’s overlooked. But the youth vote was very favourable to SF. And, there are other parties without the same baggage that offer solutions to problems like housing and rent.


Which parties offer solutions to the housing and rent problem? Not FF or FG who have made a complete mess of it. No other party on the left has the mandate SF has.

I’d certainly question SF being on the left.
 
 
In the North they are probably centre left but their proposals for housing in particular in the south are well on the left.
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

I accept that the voting demographics for SF were wider than just the youth. That is true and I agree it’s overlooked. But the youth vote was very favourable to SF. And, there are other parties without the same baggage that offer solutions to problems like housing and rent.


Which parties offer solutions to the housing and rent problem? Not FF or FG who have made a complete mess of it. No other party on the left has the mandate SF has.

I’d certainly question SF being on the left.
 
 
In the North they are probably centre left but their proposals for housing in particular in the south are well on the left.

Building housing is not really a left/right policy in the way that say privatisation of social housing is. The manifesto is “I’ll have what you’re having” populism which is not of the right or the left.

Also, single policies don’t determine what side of the dubious spectrum a party falls on.


Edited by Het-field - 18 Feb 2020 at 2:02pm
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Roy Keane
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Another Shinner apologising for historical tweets. Réada Cronin this time.

You have to wonder how they found them.
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