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Plans for All-Island League by 2021
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Cabra Hoop View Drop Down
Roy Keane
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Points: 10836 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2019 at 1:05pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Do you ever find yourself arguing with yourself Terrence?

No, I only argue with people like 'Cabra Hoop'.

You know, the poster who made an assumption about NI clubs being opposed to the concept of an AIL, without any knowledge or evidence of same.

In other words, he pre-judged the situation. And if he/she needs a definition of "pre-judged", it can be found in any dictionary, next to "prejudiced".
Thanks Turlough....If you re-read my post, you will see that i never mentioned IL Clubs or their representatives. I mentioned that i think working-class protestants would at this precarious political climate be very reluctant to support a competition with an all ireland basis. I'm open to correction, but i am of the opinion that most of fans of IL clubs come from that demographic. Judging by further posts, my hunch seems to have some veracity. In my opinion the political, logistical or financial challanges would ensure that only a certain cohort of clubs on either side of the border would embrace the competition.
 
To add, i would love the competition to happen. The cross border competitions have always been popular with Rovers fans down through their various guises - we are the record holders in tournament victories (Surprise, Surprise).


Edited by Cabra Hoop - 25 Oct 2019 at 1:16pm
" BFC always gives me a laugh........ "
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SuperDave84 View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
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ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me!

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If the clubs, leagues and associations agree, UEFA will agree.

I can see where the objection is likely to come from though: there are currently 22 teams in the top division on both sides of the border. I doubt anyone is proposing a 22 team all island league, so there are going to be a few teams missing out. I can't see that the clubs in the bottom half of either league would be happy with a league smaller than 18 teams; it simply wouldn't have the votes to pass. However, some of the larger clubs may not agree that an 18 team league is viable; it will result in a smaller number of top-end matches, compared to the position at the minute, where top teams both sides of the border play each other four times a season. Going from Bohs v Rovers and Linfield v Glentoran up to four times each a season to only twice a season (and replacing them with games like Bohs v Dungannon Swifts and Linfield v Waterford) might not be popular with fans or the money men in the clubs.

You could get around it with two divisions of 10 teams, north and south, where you play teams in your own division three times and those in the other division once, but that has three issues: firstly, what is the point; secondly, it results in 37 games (so every team either plays one extra home game or one extra away game); and thirdly, it leaves a tricky question over what you do with Derry City, as it would be a bit odd to have them in the same league as Northern teams but playing in the Southern division.
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Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

To add, i would love the competition to happen. The cross border competitions have always been popular with Rovers fans down through their various guises - we are the record holders in tournament victories (Surprise, Surprise).


I think the hammerings dished out by the Hoops to Linfield and Glentoran was the death knell for the Setanta. They won't fancy anymore of that.
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Kevin Kilbane
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Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Do you ever find yourself arguing with yourself Terrence?

No, I only argue with people like 'Cabra Hoop'.

You know, the poster who made an assumption about NI clubs being opposed to the concept of an AIL, without any knowledge or evidence of same.

In other words, he pre-judged the situation. And if he/she needs a definition of "pre-judged", it can be found in any dictionary, next to "prejudiced".
I mentioned that i think working-class protestants would at this precarious political climate be very reluctant to support a competition with an all ireland basis. I'm open to correction, but i am of the opinion that most of fans of IL clubs come from that demographic.

Yeah thats probably a part of it, other gripes are the change to the calendar, the travel, the move from games no longer saturday at 3pm. As a i say the vibe i get is fans don't seem to back it however clubs are speaking favorably in comparison. I wonder will it fall down on this basis when clubs go to their members. 

Even taking clubs out of the equation both FA's need to agree i assume, what's their current stance?

What even happens to teams which don't make either of the 3 leagues? Are they intermediate clubs as a result? Not sure I've seen anything on this.
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9fingers View Drop Down
Paul McGrath
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FAI are happy to let the clubs decide. LOI clubs will more than likely 100% back it, considering the other options on the table. It’ll more than likely come down to the IL clubs and if they want actual competition. 
I think Cabra Hoops comments are pretty much on the money 
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SuperDave84 View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
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ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me!

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It will come down to money above all else. And the fact that games against local rivals will be replaced with games against teams from 100 miles or more away will see it fall apart, both from the point of view of supporters and the clubs.

Find me a Bohs fan who would rather have a season with two games against Rovers and two against Dungannon Swifts, compared to four against Rovers. And similarly a Glentoran fan who would rather watch them play Pats than Linfield.

It's a gamble on the unknown, hoping that an all-island league has greater importance and better finances than the separate leagues.

And that's not to mention the UEFA dimension. UEFA prize money is absolutely massive for every club. Will an all-island league get eight European places? Will UEFA be happy to continue giving places to clubs both sides of the border, in one league? Will they be happy to have clubs from the all-island league getting more places than any other league in Europe? I wouldn't be so sure.

If they aren't, I don't think the maths add up. UEFA prize money is worth over €1m to each league each season - if they lose half that money, it requires the all-island league to make a lot more money to make up for it. You'll have a hard time persuading any top half teams to vote to give up that money on the basis of hope rather than expectation.

Teams at the top stand to lose out on UEFA money, teams at the bottom stand to lose out if the league is made smaller. It is very hard to see how you can persuade either side on this.


Edited by SuperDave84 - 25 Oct 2019 at 3:15pm
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Ray Houghton
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Id expect if at all it thats its gonna be a runner, it will be staged. It wont be all or nothing

So lets take the top 4 from each league to enter a cup/league competition with european place and prize money at stake. Thats just one possible solution.
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Ray Houghton
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Distance can't be the problem. We already have Derry playing Cork, that's a bigger commute than cork-Belfast.
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Territorial View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Do you ever find yourself arguing with yourself Terrence?
Not so much arguing I would say, more that he writes an article and then quotes it back to himself when he finds himself disagreeing with himself. He will then add a picture of a cat or the like to cheer himself up.


Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Any chance you could "play the ball", rather than the "man"?

That is, was there anything within my post with which you disagree?

I'll leave that with you.

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

No, you’re a ****.


I thought there were Rules for this forum regarding personal abuse, staying on topic, treating others with respect, ad hominem attacks etc

Or do they only apply on one side of the house?
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Territorial View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Distance can't be the problem. We already have Derry playing Cork, that's a bigger commute than cork-Belfast.

Derry (or Cork, for that matter) cannot avoid that.

The IL clubs can.

Btw, Derry City Ladies play in the NIWFL. I imagine travel was a major factor:
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Cabra Hoop View Drop Down
Roy Keane
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Despite my reservations of this ever coming to pass, if it was to happen my idea initially would be to run a tournament based over a short time frame and without domestic leagues being played concurrently. For the obvious financial and logisitical reasons, something along the lines of -
 

The 22 team divided into 2 Conferences of 11 teams

Each conference has 5 LOI clubs and 6 IL clubs
Each team in a conference plays 10 games – 5 home 5 away
Winners of each Conference qualifies for a play-off final to be played at home
2nd and 3rd in Conference A plays 3rd and 2rd in Conference B with the winners qualifying for play-off final. 2nd placed finishing teams have home advantage.

Both play-off winners qualify for Grand Final played in a Neutral venue.

In total there are 13 game days to be played over 6 weeks, with a game every 4 days. Ideally it would be held with longer daylight hours to keep costs down
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Ray Houghton
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Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

It will come down to money above all else. And the fact that games against local rivals will be replaced with games against teams from 100 miles or more away will see it fall apart, both from the point of view of supporters and the clubs.

Find me a Bohs fan who would rather have a season with two games against Rovers and two against Dungannon Swifts, compared to four against Rovers. And similarly a Glentoran fan who would rather watch them play Pats than Linfield.

It's a gamble on the unknown, hoping that an all-island league has greater importance and better finances than the separate leagues.

And that's not to mention the UEFA dimension. UEFA prize money is absolutely massive for every club. Will an all-island league get eight European places? Will UEFA be happy to continue giving places to clubs both sides of the border, in one league? Will they be happy to have clubs from the all-island league getting more places than any other league in Europe? I wouldn't be so sure.

If they aren't, I don't think the maths add up. UEFA prize money is worth over €1m to each league each season - if they lose half that money, it requires the all-island league to make a lot more money to make up for it. You'll have a hard time persuading any top half teams to vote to give up that money on the basis of hope rather than expectation.

Teams at the top stand to lose out on UEFA money, teams at the bottom stand to lose out if the league is made smaller. It is very hard to see how you can persuade either side on this.

You are correct re the importance European money.  However it is even more than you think.  

Dundalk and Linfield would have bagged more than that each this year.  Winning the league will become even more lucrative with this third competition.  

Hence the importance of a TV deal and other revenue streams if this league is to fly.

  
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Trap junior View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
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Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Do you ever find yourself arguing with yourself Terrence?
Not so much arguing I would say, more that he writes an article and then quotes it back to himself when he finds himself disagreeing with himself. He will then add a picture of a cat or the like to cheer himself up.


Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Any chance you could "play the ball", rather than the "man"?

That is, was there anything within my post with which you disagree?

I'll leave that with you.

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

No, you’re a ****.


I thought there were Rules for this forum regarding personal abuse, staying on topic, treating others with respect, ad hominem attacks etc

Or do they only apply on one side of the house?


Terry have you ever eaten southern EIRE Tayto?  If so what was the verdict?  I was in San Diego once and there was a shop claiming to sell all things Irish and advertised EIRE tayto in the photo in the newspaper.  When I got to said shop they had them yellow nordie Tayto.  Wasn't too impressed.
I'd recommend Frosties chewy cola sweets if you ever get a chance to ingest some.
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Territorial View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by Tony Cousins Tony Cousins wrote:

I think the hammerings dished out by the Hoops to Linfield and Glentoran was the death knell for the Setanta. They won't fancy anymore of that.

Direct quotation by Glentoran Director Graham Jenkins, who attended the meeting and emerged with positive words:
"We would be interested in looking at an All-Ireland league. Interestingly we participated in the Setanta Cup for nine years and it failed. We were one of the clubs that took it seriously, we had lots of fans that travelled all over Ireland, to Cork and to Sligo, and it wasn't reciprocated by a lot of the southern based clubs."
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/linfield-and-glentoran-open-to-further-crossborder-league-talks-after-groundbreaking-dundalk-summit-38629875.html

I may be wrong, but ISTR that the competition fizzled out after the prize money had to be reduced (also the number of games?) which, along with falling crowds, meant it became more trouble than it was worth.
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Territorial View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Do you ever find yourself arguing with yourself Terrence?
Not so much arguing I would say, more that he writes an article and then quotes it back to himself when he finds himself disagreeing with himself. He will then add a picture of a cat or the like to cheer himself up.


Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Any chance you could "play the ball", rather than the "man"?

That is, was there anything within my post with which you disagree?

I'll leave that with you.

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

No, you’re a ****.


I thought there were Rules for this forum regarding personal abuse, staying on topic, treating others with respect, ad hominem attacks etc

Or do they only apply on one side of the house?


Terry have you ever eaten southern EIRE Tayto?  If so what was the verdict?  I was in San Diego once and there was a shop claiming to sell all things Irish and advertised EIRE tayto in the photo in the newspaper.  When I got to said shop they had them yellow nordie Tayto.  Wasn't too impressed.
I'd recommend Frosties chewy cola sweets if you ever get a chance to ingest some.

Do you have anything of substance, relevance or interest to say about the proposed AIL?

If not, I have no interest in your ramblings.
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Trap junior View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
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Well if there was an AIL people would have to suffer through bags of nordie Tayto when going away up north.  Have the chairmen of southern clubs thought of this?
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Not to mention their sh*te green Buckfast!
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by Tribesman91 Tribesman91 wrote:

Not to mention their sh*te green Buckfast!

No harm to ye but the buckfast up North is far superior to the one down South.
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