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Ray Houghton
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Points: 3358 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bandwagon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2022 at 5:29pm
Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Originally posted by Greenie50 Greenie50 wrote:

Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Do you think Kenny is going to leave out a player who's played PL, and is a mainstay in a promotion-chasing Championship team that has risen up the table since Heckingbottom reintegrated him into the starting lineup, in favour of a player who's played 19 games in the Scottish PL, having played in Slovakia and Swiss second division before that, and having struggled in English football before that? I don't.

Kenny has literally left out Coleman, Hendrick & Duffy at different points, the latter 2 in favour of much less experienced players (Molumby, Knight & O'Shea). And he's dropped Clark altogether even though he was playing in the PL.
Also, Hourihane's recent run for SU has coincided with John Fleck being out.

The highest level McGrath played at when he was called up was a few Champions League & Europa League Qualifying games.

The highest level Ogbene played at was a dozen Championship games. Both have had a very positive impact for Ireland.

I've said it before, but some people get too caught up in the team/league a player plays at. It's not unimportant, but you also have to be able to evaluate the players ability/attributes outside of that, as Kenny has done with McGrath & Ogbene. So if he thinks Ronan, or Byrne, can offer something to the team he will call them up and have a look at them.

Quote It speaks to the standard we are dealing with here. Ronan may be good enough for a squad place, but it's far from a certainty.


Who said it's a certainty?

Originally posted by IrishMan234 IrishMan234 wrote:

Ronan 100% deserves his chance. Horgan should never be in the Irish set up again he’s not good enough. Hourihane offers absolutely nothing in the Irish shirt also. They’re just two Ronan should be in ahead of. 

We also need to figure out who is going to play instead of Cullen for the opening game as he’s suspended. Interesting window coming up for us. 


Ah feck. Really?

As for who to drop for Ronan, I agree that Horgan & O'Dowda are the obvious choices. Horgan hasn't started a league game for Wycombe since October (or any game since mid-November), & O'Dowda is injured again anyway.
I don't think Ronan would be directly competing with Hourihane for a spot (but I agree that Hourihane is too limited).

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

AFAIK Kenny said he wouldn't be calling up Ronan any time soon, he didn't rule it out either but just said that he should be focusing on his club career and would be then considered after he establishes himself in the team after a prolonged a number of games.

We'll soon find out anyway

This is the only thing I can find on Kenny talking about Ronan, from December:

He doesn't say he won't be calling him up though.

I do recall him saying that about Kilkenny though, that he needs to perform over an extended period of time.

Just to reference a couple of points I've bolded. 

You've completely skipped over the fact that SU are getting better results with Hourihane in the team than they were with Fleck and have risen approximately 10 places in the league. They've picked up 19 points out of a possible 21 in the last seven games he's started. He was also a focal point in Swansea challenging for promotion last season.

People get hung up on what divisions players play in and what teams they play for, do they? 

Right, kind of like lads assuming Ronan must be playing superbly because of the number of goals he's scored. 

Yes, Ogbene played "only" a dozen games in the Championship and looked well able for that level of football from the off. His own manager and coaching staff have made reference to this. He's also an integral part of a team that is heads above every other side at League One level this season.

Contrast this to Ronan who has had several underwhelming loan spells at a division lower than the one where Ogbene made a quick impact. Granted it was "only" a dozen games.


So many contradictions in such few sentences. LOL

Ronan was a bit of cult hero at DAC & Grasshoppers FYI.
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Jack Charlton
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Points: 6615 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hotlips_Hoolahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2022 at 7:36pm
How would you know he's a cult hero for a Swiss second division team and a Slovakian team you never heard of until he went there?

Do you speak fluent Swiss and Slovakian or have mates from Zurich and Dunajska Streda or something?

LOL
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Ronan's talent was clear for the 21s and when he started playing for Wolves. He's now a bit more physical and suited for men's football from the few games that I've seen. Add to that he's hit some goalscoring form.

It's not the end of the world if a few lads on a forum say he should be in our squad in our weakest position
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Ronan with an assist in the Cup today.

Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

You've completely skipped over the fact that SU are getting better results with Hourihane in the team than they were with Fleck and have risen approximately 10 places in the league. They've picked up 19 points out of a possible 21 in the last seven games he's started. He was also a focal point in Swansea challenging for promotion last season.

I didn't skip anything. Hourihane has got a run of games because Fleck was out. And the turn around in form/results that you're putting on Hourihane is actually down to the new manager Heckingbottom, who has returned them to their 352 system (SJ had been trying to shoehorn them into 4231) and he has the overall team playing a lot better.

Fleck is back now btw, and has played 2 of the last 3 games ahead of Hourihane.

It's totally moot anyway because everyone already knows what Hourihane is like playing for Ireland. At 31 he's not suddenly going to become more mobile or more aggressive in a tackle or quicker on the ball.

Don't forget what the current aim of the National team is right now, we are actively trying to build a squad that will take us to Euro24, where he'll be 33. He needs to be replaced.

Quote People get hung up on what divisions players play in and what teams they play for, do they?

Yes. And you're doing again. Also, the very next thing I said was "It's not unimportant, but you also have to be able to evaluate the players ability/attributes outside of that..."

Quote Right, kind of like lads assuming Ronan must be playing superbly because of the number of goals he's scored.

You say this right after asserting Hourihane was a "focal point for Swansea" because he popped up with a few goals and assists. Swansea fans were initially pleased but ended up saying the same things about Hourihane that we already knew, i.e. got a few goals/assists, but he has a habit of being anonymous in open play.

Quote Yes, Ogbene played "only" a dozen games in the Championship and looked well able for that level of football from the off. His own manager and coaching staff have made reference to this.

That's exactly the point I've been making.

Gavin Kilkenny has also looked well able in a dozen Championship matches, but you seem to be against calling him up. So which is it?

You've skipped McGrath, btw. Which is the main point this whole conversation about whether Ronan should be called up revolves around.

McGrath got called up off the back of a good season playing as an attacking midfielder for St Mirren. The team/league didn't matter to Kenny as he saw something in McGrath that he thought might be useful to Ireland.
Ronan is now having a good season playing as an attacking midfielder for St Mirren. People are reasonably speculating he could get called up.
That's it in a nutshell.

Quote Contrast this to Ronan who has had several underwhelming loan spells at a division lower than the one where Ogbene made a quick impact. Granted it was "only" a dozen games.


I'd wager Stephen Kenny has kept better track of Ronans career than you or I have. So I'll say it again to be crystal clear - IF Kenny sees something in Ronan (or any other player) that he thinks could be useful to Ireland then he will call the player up, team/league won't be hugely relevant in the decision.
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Jack Charlton
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Well, according to Horsey, Stephen Kenny has already expressed reservation about calling up Ronan immediately.

It's also pertinent to mention that McGrath is taller and stronger than Ronan, and how he played off the ball in the international games is just as relevant as how he played on it.

I'm not against Kilkenny or Ronan being called up. Kilkenny clearly has potential but he's been left out of match day squads for half of Bournemouth's games. Ronan is, perhaps, playing at a level worthy of Kenny's attention for the first time in his career and he's played 19 games. And, from what I've seen, it's not entirely a demanding level of football.

I think people exaggerate how bad Hourihane has been TBH. It took a long time for any of our midfielders to excel under Kenny. Cullen, Hendrick and Knight in particular have shown more than Hourihane insofar but he's shown enough in terms of long range passing relieving pressure and positional play to not be cast aside just yet. For as bad as his finish against Slovakia was (and he was decent in that game), I doubt anyone else would've been in that position to begin with. And he hasn't had brainfarts that Cullen has occasionally been guilty of in terms of leading to goalscoring chances, and goals (and I say that as someone who agrees Cullen has shown more overall).

The two are playing different roles anyway. Are we honestly to believe Ronan is going to do the unheralded work Hourihane does? Hourihane has built up a bit of goodwill. Ronan has what, a half-season of SPL behind him? 

Ogbene, for instance, took to the Championship straight away, unlike Ronan's several mediocre spells in League One, and is part of a side that has won >70% of their games in League One this season.

Again, not against Ronan being called up. Just spitballling here.


Edited by Hotlips_Hoolahan - 13 Feb 2022 at 2:26am
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Ray Houghton
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Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Well, according to Horsey, Stephen Kenny has already expressed reservation about calling up Ronan immediately.


Kenny made the comments about Ronan needing a sustained period of game time in October. He only had four games played for St Mirren at that stage and no preseason after coming back from a metatarsal fracture.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/connor-ronan-ireland-callup-wolves-21760222.amp
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Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Ogbene, for instance, took to the Championship straight away, unlike Ronan's several mediocre spells in League One, and is part of a side that has won >70% of their games in League One this season.

Ogbene struggled when he first went to England from Limerick. He couldn't break through at Brentford and struggled on loan in League Two with Exeter. Since his move to Rotherham he's kicked on like everyone in Limerick knew he could. Definitely not a good example to use to write off Ronan because of a poor loan spell.
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Last minute winner tonight.
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Jack Charlton
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He's almost a cert to be called up 
"Sometimes, sh*t happens, someone's gotta deal with it, and who ya gonna call?"
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Good to see. He's having a great season would love to see him called up. 
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He is St Mirren's top goal s corer now, on seven goals.
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I think his call up is in the bag. Jaysus
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He needs a call up. As a Wolves fan it's so great to see him mature as a player he always had the talent but seems a later developer. 

Don't think it will happen with us at this point so I hope he gets a good permanent move soon. It's what he needs to reach his potential.
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Sounds like he just scored a thunderbastard there
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Originally posted by Nialler Nialler wrote:

Sounds like he just scored a thunderbastard there

A fookin stunner.
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Easily the best goal scored by an Irish player in the UK this season, incredible strike. Had no right to even try a shot from out there.

Edited by You Tell Me - 12 Mar 2022 at 9:41pm
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Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

It really was one of those moments where you think - cmon Ronan, don't shoot from there, ohhh it's a goal!!!!

Might be worth a shout in the ireland squad on this form, if mcgrath can play for ireland with form that probably isn't as good as ronans then who knows.

I don't see why he wouldn't get a call up. He genuinely offers something different. A player maker, who has no problem taking a ding from long range. Yes, please 
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Any links to the goal and Aaron's?
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