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mandrake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mandrake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Perspective needed
    Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 11:44am
yeh, terrible v lux in firt half .. boo'd off the pitch at half time, andorra one down and then got back played well hammered them... estonia away, played ok dunne scored
sometimes performances are remembered... its international games 8 per year not club games...40 per year
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eddiebro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2019 at 10:26pm
Pre Euro 2012 Robbies Keanes famous last words “we’re not going to make up the numbers”, laughable. Micks second reign looks destined to fail, if we’re not going to get rid of the trap/MON hangovers and play more expensive. Blooding youngsters has been put on the long finger and Doherty on the bench. No other international team would have their best player on the bench. Even if we qualify based on this last weeks performances we’ll struggle to get a single decent performance at the euros. Wes’ cross for Robbie Brady and goal against Sweden in Euro 2016 were instrumental in getting us out of that group but we’ve since failed to find an alternative number 10 to fill that void. Immensely frustrating 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Terzino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2019 at 9:44pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I think the concern is that we hardly ever play well. When was the last time we played well? Euro 2016? 
I really don’t think we can get to 16 points playing badly and it is hard to have  hope based solely on our resilience.


I would say our team has two modes: passive and aggressive.  Passive can get results, but is dire to watch. Aggressive is a more risky approach, but is far more entertaining.

We have to beat either Switzerland or Denmark at home. Two draws will be no good to us.

Realistically that means we have to be aggressive. With our poor goal-scoring record, we have to create multiple chances just to get a goal. And that means that we will give up some chances too.

Even if our best hope for a goal is a set-piece. We still have to take risks to get up the field to put pressure on the opposition and force free-kicks or corners.

So the games may not be pretty, but they should be entertaining and filled with tension. Especially if we take the lead. 

The recent match against Georgia was the perfect example of such a game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irelandshirts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 4:32pm
10 points I think most people will agree is what we hoped and expected to have after Monday night. For goal difference & confidence Would we have liked to score 4 home & away v Gibraltar of course.

The big tests of course are coming with Swiss X 2 , Danes at home & Georgia away. 3 months till next fixtures. Players will have had holidays, pre season, maybe move clubs, hit form, go out of form, be injured etc so I don't think Monday nights performance will have any bearing when we play Switzerland.

It's a group of two halves almost and it's a bit like qualification form being different from tournament form. But with regards to a bit of historical perspective on past results against what some might view as lesser teams see below.

We don't always play well or batter "weaker" sides by loads of goals in our group yet we can still qualify and go on to have a good tournament.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gufct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 4:20pm
didn’t meet anyone leaving the stadiums in Vienna or Cardiff complaining. We will know where we stand after the next three games and that is all that matters as well as 10 points on the board.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I think the concern is that we hardly ever play well. When was the last time we played well? Euro 2016? 
I really don’t think we can get to 16 points playing badly and it is hard to have  hope based solely on our resilience.
 
We played well against Georgia, but then again they're poor
 
Comparatively. It was obviously an improvement on the end of MON's tenure and even a few days before, but it wasn't anything more than an improvement. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I think the concern is that we hardly ever play well. When was the last time we played well? Euro 2016? 
I really don’t think we can get to 16 points playing badly and it is hard to have  hope based solely on our resilience.
 
We played well against Georgia, but then again they're poor
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strazdas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 2:59pm
Originally posted by The Tribesman The Tribesman wrote:

In theory as a 5 team group goal difference could count, which would take into account The Gibraltar Scorelines!


For sure, but we don't really have form for hammering the small teams, not for the last 10 years at least. That doesn't make us a bad side though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 2:53pm
I think the concern is that we hardly ever play well. When was the last time we played well? Euro 2016? 
I really don’t think we can get to 16 points playing badly and it is hard to have  hope based solely on our resilience.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Terzino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 2:38pm
The perspective is that we've been here before. Since the Charlton era there's been a doggedness about Ireland.

With good or bad teams we have maintained a competitive level of performance against better teams than us for decades, apart from a few odd occasions - the Staunton era and the end of O'Neill's reign.

There's an accepted standard. Even if we don't have the best players, the internal culture of the team is one that they are expected to run themselves into the ground, defend like their lives depend on it, and keep going until the very end, because, no matter how a game has gone, we'll always get one chance to score. Even if it's in the 91st minute.

Our team would never go to Hungary and lose, for example, And certainly not with the type of players that Wales have available to them.

Our players are too bloody-minded for that to happen. And that's why games versus Gibraltar etc, will have little bearing on how we play against the likes of Switzerland or Denmark.


Edited by Terzino - 12 Jun 2019 at 2:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Tribesman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 2:33pm
In theory as a 5 team group goal difference could count, which would take into account The Gibraltar Scorelines!



Edited by The Tribesman - 12 Jun 2019 at 2:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strazdas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:


No one is taking any stance that I can see. Just pointing out that we routinely struggle to put these teams to the sword yet generally beat them and it doesn't seem to impact on how we play against the bigger teams. I wish it wasn't that way and I don't know why it is but it's been like that for generations. 

100% : it seems to make no difference whether we beat a team like Gibraltar 1-0 or 7-0, it has zero impact on how we play against the bigger teams. People are reading way too much into the result / performance the other night.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drumcondra 69er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by Jimmy Raggatip Jimmy Raggatip wrote:

probably about time we started putting these teams to the sword rather than taking the stance that things have always been a certain way

its not a big price that all the games between us, Denmark and Switzerland end in draws, and we'll be out on our arse probably

we should be showing ambition and attacking verve not just settling for routine wins

No one is taking any stance that I can see. Just pointing out that we routinely struggle to put these teams to the sword yet generally beat them and it doesn't seem to impact on how we play against the bigger teams. I wish it wasn't that way and I don't know why it is but it's been like that for generations. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kearney304 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 1:20pm
For what it's worth we have to be a bit braver as well. We can't just beat the sh*te teams and hope the big teams f**k up. 

We need to beat Denmark or Switzerland at home. Or at least take the game to them. I believe Mick will do this in September but it may not work. All I** want is for us to have a go and take a chance. Not put 10 behind the ball and pray we don't concede. 

If we have a go and don't qualify so be it. I've enough of the hit and hope and rubbish MON used to put us through:
Home games v
- Scotland 
- Serbia 
- Austria 
- Wales

etc 

*** I'm saying I because last time I said we there was holy war. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kearney304 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by deise316 deise316 wrote:

The opening post doesn't make sense. People (I'll include meself) who thought we were rubbish V Gib last night should look at Austria & Sweden struggling, while we have 10 points, so therefore its all OK ?? 

Surely it is the other way around, putting things into 'perspective' means acknowledging that the Swiss & Danes will also get 6pts V Gib (only they'll both score far more goals), and last night's performance doesn't really bode well for tougher games ahead against those 2. 

And I see somewhere else in the thread that Georgia away has been chalked down as a win again. Just like last time so. And the time Scotland only had to turn up & beat them. Georgia near enough always get at least one good result in Tbilisi and take points from one of the bigger contenders. Maybe this time it will be the Swiss or Danes that fall victim to it, but looking at our last 2 performances there, and our continuing struggle for goals, we're probably the most likely candidates. Perspective. 

No disrespect to Austria or Sweden or Russia or whoever, but I really couldn't give a fcuk how they are getting on, whether struggling or otherwise, and don't see how that is going to affect us one way or another. If we don't qualify, consoling ourselves with the thought that (say) Sweden, a far better team on paper, didn't qualify either, isn't going to make anything better. 








Enjoyed this post. A lot of bollocks gets spouted on here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimmy Raggatip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 1:15pm
probably about time we started putting these teams to the sword rather than taking the stance that things have always been a certain way

its not a big price that all the games between us, Denmark and Switzerland end in draws, and we'll be out on our arse probably

we should be showing ambition and attacking verve not just settling for routine wins
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RogerMilla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 1:10pm
superdave thanks a million for that post finally i am getting on top of this thing.. 

i think our next game defines all. if we lose to swiss then we'll need snookers. 
if we draw then we can hope to go undefeated by setting up very tight away to swiss and georgia and then by drawing with denmark at home , the other results will then define what place we get .
if we win the momentum will be huge and we are very close to qualifying indeed and the buzz will be back. 
massive game 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Here's some perspective from results against the minnows in our previous successful qualifying campaigns.

Euro 88 Ireland 2 Luxembourg 1 after going one nil down. 
WC 90 Ireland 2 Malta 0 (We'd beaten them 8-0 six years before). 
WC94 Beat both Albania and Lithuania 2 0 at home. 
WC 02 Ireland 3 Andorra 1 after going one down. 
Euro 12 Ireland 3 Andorra 1. 
Euro 16 We put Gibraltar to the sword but struggled against Georgia.

We've been having games where we struggle against the minnows in successful campaigns as long as I remember and with far better teams, It didn't prevent us raising our game against the better teams. All about the 3 remaining games against the Swiss and Danes.
The problem isn’t really that we struggled to beat Gibraltar, it is more that we really aren’t creating chances. We have had two home games against weaker opposition and while we dominated possession, we created very little. We also created little in Gibraltar and of the four games played, Randolph has had to prove his worth in three of them.


We created enough chances to put 4 or 5 on Gibraltar despite not playing well. Two goals, McGoldrick off the post, McGoldrick when he seemed to be caught between cushioning it towards McClean or putting his foot through it, Hogan when he didn't connect with the header. Pretty sure there's a couple more I can't think off off the top of my head.

Against Denmark we had the goal and the two chances where McClean simply needed to square the ball rather than take the shot on. We're creating far more than we did under MON. It's taking them that's the problem.
We are creating a little bit more, but I also feel we are giving up more chances than the last campaign. The Danes, while showing us far too much respect, particularly in the first half, they really started to open us up with one slight tactical change
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