The Decline of the European Cup |
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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Posted: 13 May 2019 at 7:10pm |
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The specific thread for the 2019 Champions League Final has become side-tracked (inc by me ) into a discussion over the merits/demerits of the top European club tournament since it became the "Champions League" in 1992/93.
In particular, it is believed that the CL has deteriorated since it has become dominated by the same old 10 or 12 wealthy clubs (or 4 or 5 countries) who are now guaranteed to produce the winner each year. I have a lot of sympathy with that, even despite supporting a "new" team who could conceivably do it this year! But that all said, I'm not sure that the old competition was quite so wonderful as fading, but nostalgic memories might allow, so I've taken a look at the record books. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The (old) European Cup ran from 1956 until 1992 - 37 editions. It had 19 unique winners, from 9 different countries, with the number of total wins (and number of unique winners) as follows: Spain - 7 wins, 2 teams (Real and Barca); Portugal - 3 wins, 2 teams (Benfica and Porto); Italy - 7 wins, 3 teams (Milan, Inter, Juve); Scotland - 1 win (Celtic. Obviously); England - 8 wins, 4 teams (Man U, Liverpool, Forest, Villa); Netherlands - 5 wins, 3 teams (Feyenoord, Ajax, PSV); Germany - 4 wins, 2 teams (Bayern, Hamburg); Romania - 1 win (Steaua); Yugoslavia - 1 win (Red Star). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Since it became the CL from 1992/93, the competition has had 12 unique winners over 26 editions, from 7 different countries, as follows: France - 1 win (Marseille); Italy - 5 wins, 3 teams (Milan, Inter, Juve); Netherlands - 1 win (Ajax); Germany - 3 wins, 2 teams (Dortmund, Bayern); Spain - 11 wins, 2 teams (RM, Barca); England - 4 wins, 3 teams (MU, Liverpool, Chelsea); Portugal - 1 win (Porto). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On the face of it, there is nearly as much "variation" in the CL and with the old EC. As against that, most of the new faces etc in the CL were in the early years, in recent years the competition has become more confined. That said, maybe the very recent years of Spanish domination of the CL is little different from the early years of Spanish domination of the EC, and will fade similarly? If this latter, might it be replaced by a period of English domination, as we saw in the late 70's/early 80's, with a similar variety of new teams (M.City? Spurs? Arsenal, even?) as we saw then? Of course, the big factor these days is money, with more and more being concentrated in the hands of a few teams/leagues, the fear being that the competition will be progressively dominated by those teams, who are busy drawing the ladder up behind them to prevent anyone else from breaking in. Alternatively, who's to say some new oligarchs won't buy into new teams elsewhere (France? Russia? Netherlands? Portugal? Turkey?) and put up a challenge in the way that PSG are (still) trying to do? I'm not sure, really. P.S. I must have got my stats wrong (above), since I somehow omitted Leeds United...
Edited by Territorial - 13 May 2019 at 7:13pm |
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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The "Champions League" as we know it now didn't really begin until the 1999/2000 season.
Like, the 1991/92 competition when Barcelona won it is historically marketed as being the European Cup, and was the first edition to introduce a round robin format, yet the 1992/93 competition, which followed the exact same format, is historically marketed as the Champions League. Yet the 1992/93 competition had far more in common with the old European Cup, and that really continued to be the case until second placed teams were introduced in 1997. So France and Holland's "Champions League" victories were really in something much more resembling the old European Cup. That 1991-99 period was a mish mash of different formats which transformed the competition from the European Cup into the Champions League. 1991 - round robin format intoduced for the first time 1992 - Champions League branding introduced 1994 - pre-Christmas round robin with four groups of four introduced 1997 - second placed teams introduced for the first time 1999 - modern Champions League format introduced for the first time, though the format was tweaked to eliminate the second round robin stage in 2003
Edited by sid waddell - 13 May 2019 at 8:37pm |
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 10716 |
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I’m not sure I’d call it a decline. The Cup Winners Cup was scrapped and the UEFA Cup has morphed into the Europa League. The CL has gradually expanded and it is has been possible to have up to 5 teams from a single domestic league. It is almost the happy compromise from the oft touted “Super League” which is unlikely to ever get approval, but ensures that numerous big clubs play under the single umbrella, where in the mid 1990s you couldn’t guarantee the presence of any given side. In 1997 by giving two positions to some leagues it virtually ensured that at least one major club would be in the CL from the big leagues. Imagine if 2016 had happened in 1996? Or even if the 1997 format change had happened at the turn of the decade, Man United would never have been able to win the Treble in 1999.
However, the irony can not be lost on the fact that neither team in the final has been domestic champion since the inception of the Champions League, and don’t enter the game as Champions.
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FrankosHereNow
Roy Keane I like Klopp Joined: 02 Jun 2011 Location: El Sadar Status: Offline Points: 12176 |
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Better now than it’s ever been.
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YBIG Quiz Champion 2016, 2017 & 2018.
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Shoco
Roy Keane Hail Hail the Celts are here Joined: 14 Dec 2008 Location: Celthick Park Status: Offline Points: 13727 |
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never realised Humburg won the European cup
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YOUR 3 IN A ROW LEAGUE CHAMPIONS |
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Gary McKay
Roy Keane Yo Adrian Joined: 21 Jul 2007 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 13816 |
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Yes, beat Platini’s Juventus bottlers.
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"Smalling and Jones.... have the potential to be the PL’s best ever pairing in my opinion." - SlurAlex
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Cabra Hoop
Roy Keane Joined: 06 Feb 2012 Location: Royal County Status: Offline Points: 10847 |
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" BFC always gives me a laugh........ "
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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Jupp Heynckes is up there too in the underrated category Won with Real Madrid and Bayern Munich in 1998 and 2013 and was rewarded with the sack both times Beaten finalist with Bayern in 2012 Improved them no end last season when he took over as caretaker, they've declined again since he left |
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SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
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In fairness, they did name the biggest stadium in Austria after him. I think, albeit subject to correction, that it is the largest stadium in Europe named after someone who is known primarily for his managerial acumen. The Bernabeu is named after someone best known as a club president, the Johan Cruijff Arena after someone best known as a player, while the Ernst Happel is the largest named after someone best known as a manager. That's a fairly fitting reflection. He might not be well known here but there's no doubt he's well known in Germany, Austria and the Netherlands.
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Baldrick
Robbie Keane Peyton-tly Pedantic Joined: 18 Sep 2008 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 32815 |
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We should name lansdowne road after our greatest administrator JD park.
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AKA pedantic kunt
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corkery
Ray Houghton Joined: 28 Jul 2010 Location: Cork Status: Offline Points: 4932 |
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Linfield got to the quarter final before, the best an Irish club has ever done in it.
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'The younger generation as in 17 -25 are certainly gayer than their predecessors. I think they may cause the extinction of the human race with their activities.'- Baldrick
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Gary McKay
Roy Keane Yo Adrian Joined: 21 Jul 2007 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 13816 |
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The first three managers to win it with two different clubs ;
Happel Hitzfeld Heynckes
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"Smalling and Jones.... have the potential to be the PL’s best ever pairing in my opinion." - SlurAlex
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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German-speaking leaders with surnames beginning with the letter H get things done I expect Eintracht Frankfurt's Adolf Hutter to be next on this list |
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Shedite
Jack Charlton Joined: 09 Dec 2011 Status: Offline Points: 9823 |
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I've never enjoyed the Champions League more than this year.
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FrankosHereNow
Roy Keane I like Klopp Joined: 02 Jun 2011 Location: El Sadar Status: Offline Points: 12176 |
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Last year was great too. The Juventus v Real Madrid tie was amazing. Juve coming from 3-0 down to level it in the Bernabeu then concede that last minute penalty. Ronaldo's overhead in the first leg. Bayern v Real was also brilliant. Brainfart from the Bayern keeper to allow Benzema to score. Bayern totally dominated that second leg but couldn't get the third goal on the night to go through.
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YBIG Quiz Champion 2016, 2017 & 2018.
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Bob Hoskins
Moderator Group Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Status: Offline Points: 20175 |
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the past 4 or so seasons of the knock outs have been great. But for Madrid winning it so often takes a tiny bit of the sheen off it.
Remember it used to be if a team lost the first leg it was highly unlikely there's be an upset, completely changed now, long may it continue |
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Romario 2016: And the ticket mafia gets caught! Well, four years ago I had already told the government.
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