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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deise316 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2019 at 10:12pm
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Sham157 Sham157 wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Henry Shefflin making a bit of an idiot out of himself claiming it was a yellow and basically it shouldn't have been a red as that ruined the game. Joanne Cantwell rightly calling him out for it.
Co commentator, Duignan was it? Blaming the rain and conditions, blaming everything but the player that went steaming in with a head high challenge.

Nah, in the studio analysis after.


Funny thing about Duignan is that if it had been a Clare, Waterford or Wexford player who committed a similar foul in any other game (especially V one of KK & Tipp) he would be screaming for them to be sent off. Much like a lot of the KK pundits (I count him as a KK pundit anyway), he seems to think some different rules should apply to them, or some of the rules shouldn't apply to them, whichever favours KK in the given circumstances basically. 

Joanne C did a great job calling out Shefflin's rubbish, but all of it still kind of reverts to the fact that most or all of the 'traditionalist' type of analysts either thought it wasn't a red card for Hogan, or more bizarrely, do think it was a red card but wouldn't have sent him off anyway. 

Game itself was nothing great, similar to last few finals as others have pointed out. Sending off did change it, but given how far off it KK were in 2nd half, ya would have to think Tipp would have won anyway. 

The most interesting point afterwards was raised by Donal Og, but got lost in the sending off chat- KK were tactically very poor in the 2nd half, and reverted to their old style of hitting long balls straight up the middle, most of which were easily dealt with by Heffernan & Ronan Maher in particular. Yet they persisted with it anyway. It doesn't work against a team with an extra man back (Tipp effectively had a sweeper once Hogan went)- very simply, if the CB doesn't win it directly, he only has to disrupt the CF from winning it cleanly and the spare man will inevitably pick it up & clear it. 

This was done to perfection by Maher & Heffernan as well as some of the other Tipp defenders,  but KK seemed to have no idea as to how to get around it. They could have tried to spread the play wider (where TJ has had great success in the past) or to drop some men back and work it up through the lines, which is what Tipp did V Wexford in the same circumstances a few weeks ago, but did none of those things, nor even attempted trying to. Yet the narrative is that the likes of D Fitz & DMG ''have no plan B'' . We didn't see a plan B today from KK anyway, that's for sure, whereas Tipp clearly showed this ability V Wexford when under severe pressure. 

It'll be lost in the talk of the sending off, but KK over the last few years have struggled with teams playing a sweeper or extra men back, or 3rd midfielders or whatever ya like to call the system, and today was further proof. Congrats to Tipp anyway, deserved winners on the day, and in losing only one championship match this season, the most consistent team too. 






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deise316 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2019 at 10:29pm
Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

One for the hurling purists - is an all Ireland win devalued in any way where a county has been well beaten in an earlier championship game and does winning the all Ireland mean the winners are the best team in the country ? 

If you aren't from KK or Tipp, hurling AI's are hard to come by, I don't think anything devalues winning one. I've heard it said re Clare in 2013 that it was somehow 'less' of an AI as they didn't beat either KK or Tipp on their way to winning, but I sure as fcuk wouldn't like to be arguing that one with a Clare person, they beat what was put in front of them and won it. 

The new format allows for 2 defeats, maybe even 3 if the mathematics of other teams results go your way, its the same for all teams. I think due to the nature of the provincials in these last 2 years that if this format is kept, it will probably become a more regular occurrence that the team winning the AI will suffer a defeat somewhere along the way- particularly for the Munster teams, such as Limerick losing to Clare last year when they were already assured of a place in the last 3 in Munster. 

The other rather obvious thing to point out is that this year, there didn't seem to be an outstanding team in the manner of past KK teams who would win every game, though Tipp were the closest, only losing one game that didn't knock them out of the championship (which they knew in advance).

Are Tipp the best team in the country ? Probably, but it isn't definitive any more. It becomes definitive if they manage to hold on to their title next year, but that has proven difficult to do for any team in recent years, including earlier versions of Tipp. Had Limerick beaten KK in the SF, would Tipp have won the final etc - nobody can really answer that one. I'd still have Galway in the top 4 teams, but scoring difference knocked them out early, so also impossible to know how they would have got on had they reached the AI stages etc. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drumcondra 69er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2019 at 10:31pm
Tyrell defending him now on the Sunday game. I get protecting your county man but it's impressively shameless.

Every one of the other 8 or so on the couch saying it's a red. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2019 at 10:35pm
How did Richie Hogan get the gash to the nose? Was that a hurl in the face or an arm/elbow?
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2019 at 10:46pm
Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

How did Richie Hogan get the gash to the nose? Was that a hurl in the face or an arm/elbow?

Musta been sniffing fannies if he’d a gash on his nose 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2019 at 10:51pm
That's so bad I laughed LOL
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Huntacha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2019 at 10:55pm
Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Tyrell defending him now on the Sunday game. I get protecting your county man but it's impressively shameless.

Every one of the other 8 or so on the couch saying it's a red. LOL

Talking absolute b*llocks. Also, saying that the Tipp player went down too easily LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote foggy.nelson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2019 at 11:02pm
Tyrell saying he should of been given a yellow "in the spirit" of the final. It'd be better if hogan didn't throw in the elbow "in the spirit" of the match
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2019 at 11:08pm
All Tyrell, Cody and co have to do is point out the farcical inconsistency of referees. All they have to say is how can Hogan receive a red card today but Holden not receive a red card in the semi final? They very much have a case by how referees are applying the laws. Either both those scenarios are red cards or neither are.
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eireland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2019 at 12:13am
I'm feeling very confident now that kilkenny won't win an AI in the next 3 years. Just too many good teams out there hungry for success.

With the underage talent coming through galway they'll be staying at the top and I think long term cork are a sleeping giant. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2019 at 12:24am
Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

All Tyrell, Cody and co have to do is point out the farcical inconsistency of referees. All they have to say is how can Hogan receive a red card today but Holden not receive a red card in the semi final? They very much have a case by how referees are applying the laws. Either both those scenarios are red cards or neither are.

Thats the worst argument there is.  If you break the rules tough sh*t.  If someone else gets away with it thats none of your business.  

Its the sort of argument 10 year olds used in.school back in.the day and lads say when they are done for drink driving or speeding.  Its the flimiest and weakest argument there is.


Edited by Baldrick - 19 Aug 2019 at 12:25am
AKA pedantic kunt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2019 at 3:18am
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

All Tyrell, Cody and co have to do is point out the farcical inconsistency of referees. All they have to say is how can Hogan receive a red card today but Holden not receive a red card in the semi final? They very much have a case by how referees are applying the laws. Either both those scenarios are red cards or neither are.

Thats the worst argument there is.  If you break the rules tough sh*t.  If someone else gets away with it thats none of your business.  

Its the sort of argument 10 year olds used in.school back in.the day and lads say when they are done for drink driving or speeding.  Its the flimiest and weakest argument there is.

Consistent application of the laws of the game is a flimsy argument LOL

More players avoided red cards for the same incident as today over the hurling championship than received the red card (which of course is the correct sanction). Either all players get the red in that scenario or none do - Holden made a far more dangerous head high hit in the semi final that received a yellow.

Basically, you are talking utter sh*ye. Drink f*cking driving.
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2019 at 9:10am
Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

One for the hurling purists - is an all Ireland win devalued in any way where a county has been well beaten in an earlier championship game and does winning the all Ireland mean the winners are the best team in the country ? 
Do you make a distinction if the Champions League or World Cup come second in their group? No, in general by the time it gets around to the final, people have forgotten about what came before

I actually think there should be some distinction between "beating the best team" and "going undefeated". Rugby seem to be the only team to do it (win the Grand Slam V win the Six Nations). There's definitely something far more dominant about beating all in front of you for a season.

I would call the winners of the All-Ireland final the "All Ireland Champions", whereas going undefeated is "winning the championship"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DUBLIN DOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2019 at 9:11am
Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

All Tyrell, Cody and co have to do is point out the farcical inconsistency of referees. All they have to say is how can Hogan receive a red card today but Holden not receive a red card in the semi final? They very much have a case by how referees are applying the laws. Either both those scenarios are red cards or neither are.

Thats the worst argument there is.  If you break the rules tough sh*t.  If someone else gets away with it thats none of your business.  

Its the sort of argument 10 year olds used in.school back in.the day and lads say when they are done for drink driving or speeding.  Its the flimiest and weakest argument there is.

Consistent application of the laws of the game is a flimsy argument LOL

More players avoided red cards for the same incident as today over the hurling championship than received the red card (which of course is the correct sanction). Either all players get the red in that scenario or none do - Holden made a far more dangerous head high hit in the semi final that received a yellow.

Basically, you are talking utter sh*ye. Drink f*cking driving.
Lets bring in the Irish version of VAR for ye sirmolexorial LOL, this numb nuts is spreading his wings now, he used to just keep his repetitive bull shoite to the rest of the world thread now he is fckin polluting the whole fckin forum with his self righteous bollocks Sleepy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2019 at 9:11am
Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

How did Richie Hogan get the gash to the nose? Was that a hurl in the face or an arm/elbow?
Cyril Farrell said something about it on the SG last night, that the tipp lad had hit Hogan first, in which case Hogan's shot was premeditated. Didn't see the first shot myself
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DUBLIN DOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2019 at 9:18am
Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

One for the hurling purists - is an all Ireland win devalued in any way where a county has been well beaten in an earlier championship game and does winning the all Ireland mean the winners are the best team in the country ? 
Do you make a distinction if the Champions League or World Cup come second in their group? No, in general by the time it gets around to the final, people have forgotten about what came before

I actually think there should be some distinction between "beating the best team" and "going undefeated". Rugby seem to be the only team to do it (win the Grand Slam V win the Six Nations). There's definitely something far more dominant about beating all in front of you for a season.

I would call the winners of the All-Ireland final the "All Ireland Champions", whereas going undefeated is "winning the championship"
Its the structuring of the whole championship that is wrong, teams can work the system 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rossieman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2019 at 9:25am
Originally posted by deise316 deise316 wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Sham157 Sham157 wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Henry Shefflin making a bit of an idiot out of himself claiming it was a yellow and basically it shouldn't have been a red as that ruined the game. Joanne Cantwell rightly calling him out for it.
Co commentator, Duignan was it? Blaming the rain and conditions, blaming everything but the player that went steaming in with a head high challenge.

Nah, in the studio analysis after.


Funny thing about Duignan is that if it had been a Clare, Waterford or Wexford player who committed a similar foul in any other game (especially V one of KK & Tipp) he would be screaming for them to be sent off. Much like a lot of the KK pundits (I count him as a KK pundit anyway), he seems to think some different rules should apply to them, or some of the rules shouldn't apply to them, whichever favours KK in the given circumstances basically. 

Joanne C did a great job calling out Shefflin's rubbish, but all of it still kind of reverts to the fact that most or all of the 'traditionalist' type of analysts either thought it wasn't a red card for Hogan, or more bizarrely, do think it was a red card but wouldn't have sent him off anyway. 

Game itself was nothing great, similar to last few finals as others have pointed out. Sending off did change it, but given how far off it KK were in 2nd half, ya would have to think Tipp would have won anyway. 

The most interesting point afterwards was raised by Donal Og, but got lost in the sending off chat- KK were tactically very poor in the 2nd half, and reverted to their old style of hitting long balls straight up the middle, most of which were easily dealt with by Heffernan & Ronan Maher in particular. Yet they persisted with it anyway. It doesn't work against a team with an extra man back (Tipp effectively had a sweeper once Hogan went)- very simply, if the CB doesn't win it directly, he only has to disrupt the CF from winning it cleanly and the spare man will inevitably pick it up & clear it. 

This was done to perfection by Maher & Heffernan as well as some of the other Tipp defenders,  but KK seemed to have no idea as to how to get around it. They could have tried to spread the play wider (where TJ has had great success in the past) or to drop some men back and work it up through the lines, which is what Tipp did V Wexford in the same circumstances a few weeks ago, but did none of those things, nor even attempted trying to. Yet the narrative is that the likes of D Fitz & DMG ''have no plan B'' . We didn't see a plan B today from KK anyway, that's for sure, whereas Tipp clearly showed this ability V Wexford when under severe pressure. 

It'll be lost in the talk of the sending off, but KK over the last few years have struggled with teams playing a sweeper or extra men back, or 3rd midfielders or whatever ya like to call the system, and today was further proof. Congrats to Tipp anyway, deserved winners on the day, and in losing only one championship match this season, the most consistent team too. 






 
It was a shocking display,they must have sent in 30 balls and won barely any of them.KK management were clueless,no plan B whatsoever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Croftman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2019 at 9:59am
Clear red card regardless of what went before with the tackle on Hogan or previous games. This bull about "spirit of the final" or "ruining the game" is laughable, maybe aim it all at Hogan for been so stupid. Best team won and deservedly so. Some of the scores in the second half Clap
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