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It's the Stephen Kenny Thread
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Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

The fact the league is sh*te is what makes his achievements in Europe so great.
As I said, any other similar sized football nation and he would be the standout choice.

What he alchieved with Dundalk in Europe was sensational. He also had an incredible run with Derry City in 2006  in the UEFA cup which ended with a two leg defeat to PSG. He also beat Aberdeen with Bohs in the UEFA cup. Pat Fenlon however did something quite similar with Shels. A 4-0 win over a good Deportivo team as well. He qualified for the UEFA cup proper. I actually think Fenlon and Kenny are the best comparison but everyone seems to be making the comparison with Michael O'Neil. Fenlon did well at Shelbourne and Bohs and decent at Shamrock. Failed at Derry and Hibs. Kenny did well at Bohs, Derry and Dundalk. Failed at Dunfermline and Shamrock. 
No Irish team has beaten Deportivo 4-0. Fenlon did what he did because of the money that was swashing around the league at the time. When the money went he did nothing. There is absolutely no comparison between what any other manager in the league has done and what Kenny has done, including the much vaunted Michael O'Neill.
I think he is too wedded to a philosophy that is unsuitable for our current lot, and those in charge are looking for a quick fix when I don't think one is available , but to dismiss what he has done is ridiculous.
As for him not being looked at by clubs abroad, I think he should be and maybe he is, if rumours are to be believed he is on quite a nice contract at Dundalk when bonuses are taken into consideration. It would be very hard to leave home when you are idolised in Dundalk and getting well paid for it.
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Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by Dugs Dugs wrote:

if kenny still gets the chance to take over the u21s then he would be mad not to take it. Huge loss to the league but it would be a great oppurtunity for him. Few good players coming through at underage and if he did a good job then he would be a contender for the next senior job when it comes round. This notion that its beneath him is mental. 

He's vastly over qualified for the U-21's, the suggestion he should take it is insulting. The suggestions that he should be integrated into the senior set-up are even more bizarre, why on earth would anyone think that either him or Mick would be up for that? It's makes precisely no sense for either of them.


How is Kenny vastly over qualified for the under 21 job? People are losing the run of themselves over Kenny- I would also say to many on here, for all his success I don't see many chasing him from bigger leagues. You are talking as if he is managing in a top league having huge success. Peoole need a reality check here 

Who are the pevious managers of our U-21 side? What prior managerial experience did they have? Going off precedent, Kenny is astronomically overqualified to be our U-21 manager. You're living in Loony-tune land if you can't see that.
We're decent enough..
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Originally posted by Crap senior Crap senior wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

The fact the league is sh*te is what makes his achievements in Europe so great.
As I said, any other similar sized football nation and he would be the standout choice.

What he alchieved with Dundalk in Europe was sensational. He also had an incredible run with Derry City in 2006  in the UEFA cup which ended with a two leg defeat to PSG. He also beat Aberdeen with Bohs in the UEFA cup. Pat Fenlon however did something quite similar with Shels. A 4-0 win over a good Deportivo team as well. He qualified for the UEFA cup proper. I actually think Fenlon and Kenny are the best comparison but everyone seems to be making the comparison with Michael O'Neil. Fenlon did well at Shelbourne and Bohs and decent at Shamrock. Failed at Derry and Hibs. Kenny did well at Bohs, Derry and Dundalk. Failed at Dunfermline and Shamrock. 
was roddy not over bohs when they beat Aberdeen 


Actually I think you might be right 
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

I actually think Fenlon and Kenny are the best comparison but everyone seems to be making the comparison with Michael O'Neil. Fenlon did well at Shelbourne and Bohs and decent at Shamrock. Failed at Derry and Hibs. Kenny did well at Bohs, Derry and Dundalk. Failed at Dunfermline and Shamrock. 

Kenny got sacked by Bohs in the end too. Nobody screaming Fenlon's name from the roof tops though which makes this calling for Kenny all the more bizarre. I am quite happy Mick got it and if it wasn't going to be Mick then I was hoping Sam would get it.
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Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by Crap senior Crap senior wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

The fact the league is sh*te is what makes his achievements in Europe so great.
As I said, any other similar sized football nation and he would be the standout choice.

What he alchieved with Dundalk in Europe was sensational. He also had an incredible run with Derry City in 2006  in the UEFA cup which ended with a two leg defeat to PSG. He also beat Aberdeen with Bohs in the UEFA cup. Pat Fenlon however did something quite similar with Shels. A 4-0 win over a good Deportivo team as well. He qualified for the UEFA cup proper. I actually think Fenlon and Kenny are the best comparison but everyone seems to be making the comparison with Michael O'Neil. Fenlon did well at Shelbourne and Bohs and decent at Shamrock. Failed at Derry and Hibs. Kenny did well at Bohs, Derry and Dundalk. Failed at Dunfermline and Shamrock. 
was roddy not over bohs when they beat Aberdeen 


Actually I think you might be right 
He definitely was and is still talking about it. I missed that after the laughable mention of Shels beating Depor 4-0.
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Originally posted by grannyrule grannyrule wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

I actually think Fenlon and Kenny are the best comparison but everyone seems to be making the comparison with Michael O'Neil. Fenlon did well at Shelbourne and Bohs and decent at Shamrock. Failed at Derry and Hibs. Kenny did well at Bohs, Derry and Dundalk. Failed at Dunfermline and Shamrock. 

Kenny got sacked by Bohs in the end too. Nobody screaming Fenlon's name from the roof tops though which makes this calling for Kenny all the more bizarre. I am quite happy Mick got it and if it wasn't going to be Mick then I was hoping Sam would get it.

As I have explained above, and will do again for the hard of reading, there is no comparison between what Kenny did and Fenlon did. Kenny took over Dundalk when they were a yoyo club. They had just survived a relegation playoff and had f**k all money. A few short years later they were in the group stages of European competition.
Fenlon spent big money, by LOI standards, to win leagues, sometimes that clubs didn't have. Kenny has helped make Dundalk financially secure, arguments about investment aside, that investment was on the table because of him. These things might be irrelevant for international football, but it shows why his stock is higher than Pat Fenlon. Anywhere Fenlon went without money he failed. Kenny also has failures on his CV, very few managers don't, but he seems to have learned from them.
He is achievements, with respect to all those with claims before him, are the best  in the league's history. To suggest he isn't overqualified to follow in the footsteps of Noel King and Don Givens is absurd.
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Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Hans - who would you have as our manager?

Not McCarthy, thats for sure. A manager who has been there, and imo whose time is well and truly over. A championship team in England wouldn't pay McCarthy half of what we are supposedly offering him, if offering him any job at all in future (which I highly doubt).

There are literally endless people that we could attract if we are willing to pay anywhere near the reported 1.2m salary being offered. We managed to get Trapatoni, one of the all time great managers for a bit more money. Now I'm not saying, go down that experienced manager route, but if you did there are endless options out there better than McCarthy (I guess the Irish players might not know some of them though, and are familiar with McCarthy as that farcical argument goes. Actually anyone using that should just be banned in the media - Kilbane etc).

If you were going down the up and coming manager route, again there are countless options if we are offering 1.2m a year. I really don't think people get it. It comes down to salary and we are offering a serious wedge that discounts few candidates. How the f*ck we are ending up with McCarthy from a football perspective I'll never know. It's genuinely shocking.

The likes of Kenny should be miles ahead of McCarthy on any list. The problem is there was never a list made up. This job was McCarthys the minute MON was fired, and I believe probably got wind of it being his job after being sounded out by the FAI weeks ago.

You have not answered my question.

We know you hate McCarthy.

Give me 3 realistic names? 

Am I paid to scour the planet for the FAI? Should I give up my 9-5 and family time while I do due diligence for the FAI for a few weeks before coming up with possible candidates?

I think you miss the point in the whole, and your argument is totally lazy. Much like all the commentary around McCarthys return. You are looking for 3 names. I am telling you that on a 1.2m salary per year if that is true, you should actually be looking at the unrealistic names as they are very few at all in the grand scheme of things. We are paying a massive wage, the options are massive with any bit of thinking and foresight.

Or I could just answer your question in the laziest possible way that the FAI and people on here go about discussing our next manager. Google Paddypower odds and have your pick. Kenny, Allardyce (shudder), Queiroz. 3 names. 10 seconds research. Imagine what people could do when making a bit of effort and having some imagination though. That's just not going to happen though is it?

Actually, since we are appointing a manager we last appointed in 1996, why not go the whole hog. Only 10 years odd previous we appointed Jack. Feck it. Just bring Jack back altogether.
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Just playing devil's advocate here, but look at the CV of the man who took Croatia to a World Cup final. I think it is a part of our obsession with English football that we undermine Kenny's achievements.
Any other small country in Europe and taking a team from semi-professionalism to the group stages of European competition and he would have been the standout candidate. Graham Potter, whose achievements I felt were slightly better, got a decent job off the back of his exploits.
As I said, I'm not sure I would have wanted Kenny to get it, but not for the reasons being given.

Now, we are at a level where discussion can take place about the likes of Kenny. Kilbanes comments that he's not suitable as a lot of the Irish squad wouldn't know him, but they'd know Mick as they've seen him on Sky Sports lots of times - that sums up the level of nonsense around the commentary on Kenny as our next possible manager from Micks supporters on here.
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

The fact the league is sh*te is what makes his achievements in Europe so great.
As I said, any other similar sized football nation and he would be the standout choice.

What he alchieved with Dundalk in Europe was sensational. He also had an incredible run with Derry City in 2006  in the UEFA cup which ended with a two leg defeat to PSG. He also beat Aberdeen with Bohs in the UEFA cup. Pat Fenlon however did something quite similar with Shels. A 4-0 win over a good Deportivo team as well. He qualified for the UEFA cup proper. I actually think Fenlon and Kenny are the best comparison but everyone seems to be making the comparison with Michael O'Neil. Fenlon did well at Shelbourne and Bohs and decent at Shamrock. Failed at Derry and Hibs. Kenny did well at Bohs, Derry and Dundalk. Failed at Dunfermline and Shamrock. 
No Irish team has beaten Deportivo 4-0. Fenlon did what he did because of the money that was swashing around the league at the time. When the money went he did nothing. There is absolutely no comparison between what any other manager in the league has done and what Kenny has done, including the much vaunted Michael O'Neill.
I think he is too wedded to a philosophy that is unsuitable for our current lot, and those in charge are looking for a quick fix when I don't think one is available , but to dismiss what he has done is ridiculous.
As for him not being looked at by clubs abroad, I think he should be and maybe he is, if rumours are to be believed he is on quite a nice contract at Dundalk when bonuses are taken into consideration. It would be very hard to leave home when you are idolised in Dundalk and getting well paid for it.


Dont know where I got the 4-0 over Deportivo from to be honest. 
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Originally posted by Bob Hoskins Bob Hoskins wrote:

Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Hans - who would you have as our manager?

Not McCarthy, thats for sure. A manager who has been there, and imo whose time is well and truly over. A championship team in England wouldn't pay McCarthy half of what we are supposedly offering him, if offering him any job at all in future (which I highly doubt).

There are literally endless people that we could attract if we are willing to pay anywhere near the reported 1.2m salary being offered. We managed to get Trapatoni, one of the all time great managers for a bit more money. Now I'm not saying, go down that experienced manager route, but if you did there are endless options out there better than McCarthy (I guess the Irish players might not know some of them though, and are familiar with McCarthy as that farcical argument goes. Actually anyone using that should just be banned in the media - Kilbane etc).

If you were going down the up and coming manager route, again there are countless options if we are offering 1.2m a year. I really don't think people get it. It comes down to salary and we are offering a serious wedge that discounts few candidates. How the f*ck we are ending up with McCarthy from a football perspective I'll never know. It's genuinely shocking.

The likes of Kenny should be miles ahead of McCarthy on any list. The problem is there was never a list made up. This job was McCarthys the minute MON was fired, and I believe probably got wind of it being his job after being sounded out by the FAI weeks ago.

 The reason we have McCarthy is because he is a quick and easy apointment that might work and will keep the pressure off Delaney. 

100 percent. Absolutely no doubting this, besides the thought that it might work. I don't think it will work. 
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Even though I don't share your views on Mick, it is hard to disagree he is the lazy option and it appears very little searching has been done. Has nobody in the association been keeping an eye on up and coming managers across the world? I'm not saying we should be appointing some lad doing well in Uruguay or South Africa, but all options should be discussed and debated and not just a case of 'Mick will do'. We needed a realistic appraisal of where we are and where we are going. It is odds on we will be in the same place in two years time, just with two years lost.
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Even though I don't share your views on Mick, it is hard to disagree he is the lazy option and it appears very little searching has been done. Has nobody in the association been keeping an eye on up and coming managers across the world? I'm not saying we should be appointing some lad doing well in Uruguay or South Africa, but all options should be discussed and debated and not just a case of 'Mick will do'. We needed a realistic appraisal of where we are and where we are going. It is odds on we will be in the same place in two years time, just with two years lost.

Where are all these up and coming managers around the world that we would be happy with taking over our national side. Is there some sort of secret society only some know about? Who are they? 
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Originally posted by Dugs Dugs wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Even though I don't share your views on Mick, it is hard to disagree he is the lazy option and it appears very little searching has been done. Has nobody in the association been keeping an eye on up and coming managers across the world? I'm not saying we should be appointing some lad doing well in Uruguay or South Africa, but all options should be discussed and debated and not just a case of 'Mick will do'. We needed a realistic appraisal of where we are and where we are going. It is odds on we will be in the same place in two years time, just with two years lost.

Where are all these up and coming managers around the world that we would be happy with taking over our national side. Is there some sort of secret society only some know about? Who are they? 
Congratulations, you completely missed the point!
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Even though I don't share your views on Mick, it is hard to disagree he is the lazy option and it appears very little searching has been done. Has nobody in the association been keeping an eye on up and coming managers across the world? I'm not saying we should be appointing some lad doing well in Uruguay or South Africa, but all options should be discussed and debated and not just a case of 'Mick will do'. We needed a realistic appraisal of where we are and where we are going. It is odds on we will be in the same place in two years time, just with two years lost.

It is incredibly lazy. I have no problem with plenty of other names besides Kenny being mentioned, even though I think he is a very good option. It is clear as day that there was absolutely no work done on this by the FAI. It is incredible and it is totally incompetent on the FAIs behalf. It's not at all like we only have a tiny pool of managers to choose from (as so many are programmed in Ireland to believe). When you are offering 1m plus per year salary, there are a massive amount of options. How the f*ck you do you end up with McCarthy then, it is soul destroying tbh.
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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I feel a little sick agreeing with Hans so much LOL
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Even though I don't share your views on Mick, it is hard to disagree he is the lazy option and it appears very little searching has been done. Has nobody in the association been keeping an eye on up and coming managers across the world? I'm not saying we should be appointing some lad doing well in Uruguay or South Africa, but all options should be discussed and debated and not just a case of 'Mick will do'. We needed a realistic appraisal of where we are and where we are going. It is odds on we will be in the same place in two years time, just with two years lost.


Norwich took a punt on a coach from Dortmund (Might have been assistant) last season wasn't particularly great but they're flying at the moment. They thought outside the box instead of going to the usual merry go round of managers in England 


Edited by Denis Irwin - 24 Nov 2018 at 3:24pm
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If Stephen Kenny wants to manage Ireland in the future, he needs to successfully manage outside the League of Ireland first, and that means with a team in the English Championship or higher, or the Scottish Premier Division, or in a top league somewhere on the continent.

To be considered as a player for the Irish team, you need to play in a better league than the League of Ireland.

Because the League of Ireland is, at best, equivalent to English League Two standard. 

We don't pick managers out of League Two to manage Ireland, so why would we pick a League of Ireland manager?

That's the brutal reality of it.

There's a straw man being constantly peddled here. 

Nobody says the FAI shouldn't try to make the League of Ireland better. But how much better can it actually get? 

What is the ultimate vision for the League of Ireland? 

Is it to turn it into a league in which players don't have to go to England or elsewhere if they want to be picked regularly for Ireland? That Irish internationals of the future will play for Shamrock Rovers or Cork City, rather than Blackburn Rovers or Norwich City? 

Because if that's the vision, I can tell you straight off the that the chances of that ever happening are zero. The nature of football economics means it's an impossibility. If, in the hypothetical event that it did happen, our international team would be down with the Moldovas of this world.

The best case scenario for the League of Ireland, and one that in truth it already offers, is that it can offer a somewhat reasonable level of football to give good players in the 18-24 age bracket a realistic staging post to achieve a route OUT of it. 

When people talk about Seamus Coleman, Wes Hoolahan, James McClean, Matt Doherty, Stephen Ward and Kevin Doyle etc. as proof of the merits of the League of Ireland, what are they actually talking about? 

Are they saying that those players could have been Irish internationals had they stuck around in the League of Ireland? I'll tell you right now - had they stuck around at Sligo, Shels, Derry, Bohs or Cork, they wouldn't have been.

All of those players got out of the League of Ireland at the first chance. Because to make it as an international footballer, you have to go to Britain.

Who are the top footballers in the League of Ireland in recent years? Six of them are Richie Towell, Sean Maguire, David MacMillan, Daryl Horgan, Chris Forrester and Patrick McEleney. All went to Britain. None are exactly tearing it up at the moment over there, are they? McEleney was back with Dundalk after seven months.

The League of Ireland is doomed to be forever trapped in a vicious circle. Those who are good enough get out of it. Those who remain there can never be considered for the international team, because the league as a whole simply isn't good enough, and will never be.

If that's case for players, it shouldn't be any different for managers.














Edited by sid waddell - 24 Nov 2018 at 3:40pm
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When a player is clearly far superior to the LOI, like Maguire and Towell were, and clearly capable of a higher level, they should be considered for the national team. We should not be waiting for managers in the top two tiers of English football to decide for us, our playing pool is too small. That goes for anybody else playing outside those two divisions as well. 
It is part of the problem in Irish football, our fans constantly compare our players to those of our opponents, not on their abilities as a footballer, but by the league position in England of their club. Then, when they move up or down the ladder, their playing ability moves with it.
It is partly to do with our geographic location, but more to do with our mindset, that it if they haven't done it in the Championship then they are nothing. I mentioned the Croatian manager earlier, a man whose standout career moments included being sacked in Albania. Swansea City, who were long known for astute managerial appointments, before losing their way and getting relegated, hired Graham Potter for his exploits in the back arse of Sweden, exploits similar to those of Kenny. 
There are plenty good managers who cut their teeth at a lower level and if we wait until they have proved themselves in England, they probably won't want us. Which is why we end up with rushed, short-term appointments that put a band-aid over far, far bigger problems in the Irish game.
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