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It's the Stephen Kenny Thread
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Jack Charlton
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How many new caps did we have across the six Nations League games (genuine question, I'm not sure)? Presumably, if we were still at the stage of building a squad, it would have been quite a few. But if the correct answer is "just CJ Hamilton" (because I can't think of any others) then surely it's fair to say that the bulk of the squad building process was completed prior to this and we should now be on to the stage of delivering notable improvements in terms of results and placements, which we haven't seen any sign of yet.
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Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

How many new caps did we have across the six Nations League games (genuine question, I'm not sure)? Presumably, if we were still at the stage of building a squad, it would have been quite a few. But if the correct answer is "just CJ Hamilton" (because I can't think of any others) then surely it's fair to say that the bulk of the squad building process was completed prior to this and we should now be on to the stage of delivering notable improvements in terms of results and placements, which we haven't seen any sign of yet.

Thats if you believe the process of squad building entails just putting a young lad on the pitch, which is nonsensical tbh. It's about experimenting, giving players experience, building on (and off) pitch relationships, looking at what works, what doesnt work, gauging who is capable, who isnt etc, etc, etc. It wasnt simply a case of replacing 10 squad players with 10 youngfellas and thats it, job done. How many starting players on Saturday night had 20+ caps?

As for improvements, I'll repost - Last year better than his first year, no???? Signs of progress, no???
 
In the last year, we have played 12 games - 3 WCQ, 3 Friendlies, 6 NL games - We are 6W, 3D, 3L - For - 21 Against - 9. That is the entire latter half of Kennys tenure to date.We have played Belgium, Portugal, Scotland x 2, Ukraine x 2 in that period

Strip out the friendlies, in the last year we have played 9 competitive fixtures, 5 vs higher seeded teams - The record is 4W, 2D, 3L For 14 Against - 7. We are 1-2-2 against the higher seeded teams For 5 Against 4. We are 3-0-1 vs the lower seeded teams For 9 Against 3.

Objectively, I dont see how that warrants the sack for an Ireland manager. He deserves the Euro24 campaign. Hopefully we see further progression.
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Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

How many new caps did we have across the six Nations League games (genuine question, I'm not sure)? Presumably, if we were still at the stage of building a squad, it would have been quite a few. But if the correct answer is "just CJ Hamilton" (because I can't think of any others) then surely it's fair to say that the bulk of the squad building process was completed prior to this and we should now be on to the stage of delivering notable improvements in terms of results and placements, which we haven't seen any sign of yet.

6 of our starting XI against Scotland still eligible for the U-21 campaign that just passed (Could be wrong but I think Molumby is the only "young" player who wasn't eligible);

  • Parrott (17 caps, only starting to establish himself as a starter and getting more than token minutes at the end of games)
  • Obafemi (6 caps)
  • Knight (17 caps, similar to Parrott in terms of just establishing himself as a starter & minutes)
  • Collins (8 caps)
  • Bazunu (12 caps)
Include O'Shea (15 caps) and Molumby (16 caps), along with Omobamidele (5 caps - probably would have started ahead of O'Shea if he had been fit).

You'll hear a lot of players/ex-players saying it took them 10+ caps to feel comfortable at international level, never mind a bunch of kids who still aren't regulars at their own clubs.

Trying to say that the rebuild should have been complete after the WC campaign and ready for the NL campaign was just nonsense. Again, it was the experienced players who let the team down in the poorer performances, which is why they're now not in the starting XI.

No one will dispute that results are the only thing that matter from here on in.
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Double post.

Edited by The Huntacha - 30 Sep 2022 at 12:26pm
Jimmy Bullard - "Favorite band? Elastic."
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Originally posted by bundy bundy wrote:

The age old problem with Irish football comes to the fore again. This “I’m a better fan than you” nonsense drives me up the wall. It’s the same on away trips, chaps thinking they’re Ireland’s number 1 fan and walk around with horns in their pants telling everyone how great they are because they go to every LOI game. The same used to be trotted out in school years ago, you weren’t a real fan if you hadn’t been in Old Trafford or Anfield. Nonsense talk altogether.


To be fair, if you do go to a load of League of Ireland games you are, by definition, a bigger supporter of Irish football. But we don't all have a local club unfortunately  But same can be said for Intermediate, junior football 


Edited by MayoMark - 30 Sep 2022 at 12:40pm
They finally did it man... They killed my f**kin' car...
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Originally posted by zizu Kilbane zizu Kilbane wrote:


f**k their opinion because it means nothing. The good will behind the manager at the moment is generated by the real fans in the country. The ones who actually 'get' Irish football. (The fans that don't put on faux manc or scouse acents in the pub). We may or may nor be successful in the short term. C'est la vie! At least we have someone in charge who is trying to change the rotten culture we have in this country around football. If that's his only legacy, at least its a noble one.

Most fans (including many here) only tune in to Irish football when the senior mens team is playing. That is where their understanding of Irish football begins and ends
 

The ‘real’ fans. Gimme a break. There is undoubtedly an ideological objection to Kenny from some. But most others will be at least even handed at giving credit where credit is due, while also perhaps look at results with a concerned eye. 
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Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by Mr Brick Mr Brick wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by bundy bundy wrote:

The age old problem with Irish football comes to the fore again. This “I’m a better fan than you” nonsense drives me up the wall. It’s the same on away trips, chaps thinking they’re Ireland’s number 1 fan and walk around with horns in their pants telling everyone how great they are because they go to every LOI game. The same used to be trotted out in school years ago, you weren’t a real fan if you hadn’t been in Old Trafford or Anfield. Nonsense talk altogether.

One final word on Kenny, all this talk of him bringing players through and developing young lads for senior international games. It’s bollocks. The remit of the manager of an international football team is to get results. Not talk about how great he is because he gave a young player a start. His job is to get results. Mick McCarthy’s job 3 years ago was to get in and get us out of the group. He failed at it but that was his remit. Just because Kenny’s contract is longer he shouldn’t get a free pass at this. He’s failing and has failed every test so far. Unfortunately he’s going to fail his next one too and it’s so blatantly obvious. But the general feeling is if he gets young lads on the pitch then the results don’t matter. Especially if they pass a ball sideways and backwards for 90 mins. But if they manage to hold on to it for long enough then our possession stats will be unreal. For some, to focus on this when we’ve lost games is just unbelievable. The Friday night merchants wouldn’t put up with that sh*te at their beloved 1st division club would they? No they wouldn’t. The remit of any manager at any competitive level is to get results. The fact so many people seem to gloss over this is truly worrying. Especially if they do it with a straight face.

I mostly agree with your first paragraph.

Your second paragraph is bollocks!
No it's not. Interesting that Kenny has proudly declared we can string 20-30 passes together now. That was a silly comment. Invites deserved criticism.

"all this talk of him bringing players through and developing young lads for senior international games. It’s bollocks" Just how is this bollocks? Did it not have to be done? 

Mc Carthy seeded 3rd, finished 3rd - Kenny seeded 3rd, finished 3rd, despite having to rebuild the team in the process, anybody who doesnt think this was necessary or who doesnt think that should be taken into account is talking bollocks imo.
The usual Mick fallback. He's gone - after finishing third for chrissakes. He too took massive criticism and a ridiculously fat cheque. Are you suggesting the likes of Knight, Parrott, Collins, O'Shea, Omobamidele etc would have been ignored by an incoming manager other Kenny? That this same new manager would have retained the hoof? So Kenny introduced a more possession-based game - big deal. Unfortunately his interpretation has produced nothing only frustration.

It would be great if he turned it around in the Euros. Fantastic to get to a Finals again, a big morale boost for the country. But even his fanatical legions must know that's a hoof too far.
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But even his fanatical legions must know that's a hoof too far.

Good man Mr Brick!  Tell us how it is! It's not enough to make your point on a forum, it's even better if you denigrate everyone who might have a different opinion! Frame them as a rabid horde, a lot flock of bleating sheep, a frothing mob!

Unfortunately his interpretation has produced nothing only frustration.

For you! And it must be even more frustrating for you that many of us think your opinion is restricted by your black and white view of Irish football.
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Originally posted by The Huntacha The Huntacha wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

How many new caps did we have across the six Nations League games (genuine question, I'm not sure)? Presumably, if we were still at the stage of building a squad, it would have been quite a few. But if the correct answer is "just CJ Hamilton" (because I can't think of any others) then surely it's fair to say that the bulk of the squad building process was completed prior to this and we should now be on to the stage of delivering notable improvements in terms of results and placements, which we haven't seen any sign of yet.

6 of our starting XI against Scotland still eligible for the U-21 campaign that just passed (Could be wrong but I think Molumby is the only "young" player who wasn't eligible);

  • Parrott (17 caps, only starting to establish himself as a starter and getting more than token minutes at the end of games)
  • Obafemi (6 caps)
  • Knight (17 caps, similar to Parrott in terms of just establishing himself as a starter & minutes)
  • Collins (8 caps)
  • Bazunu (12 caps)
Include O'Shea (15 caps) and Molumby (16 caps), along with Omobamidele (5 caps - probably would have started ahead of O'Shea if he had been fit).

You'll hear a lot of players/ex-players saying it took them 10+ caps to feel comfortable at international level, never mind a bunch of kids who still aren't regulars at their own clubs.

Trying to say that the rebuild should have been complete after the WC campaign and ready for the NL campaign was just nonsense. Again, it was the experienced players who let the team down in the poorer performances, which is why they're now not in the starting XI.

No one will dispute that results are the only thing that matter from here on in.

Thanks for digging out the stats there - so 7 of the starting XI had less than 20 caps, Cullen is I think just over that mark with 21 or thereabouts. The others were Egan (28), Mc Clean (95) and Doherty (31). 7 were 23 or under, 5 were U21 eligible. The squad building process is ongoing and we still have issues to sort, lads should improve with experience and results have very definitely improved over the last 12 months. Hopefully the upward trend will continue and we will be competitive at least in the next campaign.
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Being competitive is on a knife edge. An injury to Cullen, a red card suspension to Molumby, and Knight losing form / not progressing and our midfield is shot.
We badly need some viable alternatives here.
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Originally posted by Bukowski Bukowski wrote:

Being competitive is on a knife edge. An injury to Cullen, a red card suspension to Molumby, and Knight losing form / not progressing and our midfield is shot.
We badly need some viable alternatives here.

He hasn't really done a whole lot in the last 2 games in fairness. 
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Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Originally posted by Bukowski Bukowski wrote:

Being competitive is on a knife edge. An injury to Cullen, a red card suspension to Molumby, and Knight losing form / not progressing and our midfield is shot.
We badly need some viable alternatives here.

He hasn't really done a whole lot in the last 2 games in fairness. 

And this is highly likely!
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Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Originally posted by Bukowski Bukowski wrote:

Being competitive is on a knife edge. An injury to Cullen, a red card suspension to Molumby, and Knight losing form / not progressing and our midfield is shot.
We badly need some viable alternatives here.

He hasn't really done a whole lot in the last 2 games in fairness. 

And this is highly likely!

Almost as likely as your buddy Jeff going MIA..
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Originally posted by 50%lesssugar&salt 50%lesssugar&salt wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Originally posted by Bukowski Bukowski wrote:

Being competitive is on a knife edge. An injury to Cullen, a red card suspension to Molumby, and Knight losing form / not progressing and our midfield is shot.
We badly need some viable alternatives here.

He hasn't really done a whole lot in the last 2 games in fairness. 

And this is highly likely!

Almost as likely as your buddy Jeff going MIA..

Tbf, it was tongue in cheek. Molumby has only received 1 red in senior mens football which I'm surprised at, a lot of yellows around 1 every 4 games, but his record isnt as bad as I thought.

As for Jeff, he's an easy target - I'll be happy enough when he's no longer required - I dont think that's the case just yet!
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Edit, JN had replied before I hit post.

Like Hourihane has more yellows than Molumby this season

Edited by J89 - 30 Sep 2022 at 6:34pm
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Agree with the original point that we are very thin in midfield.

Listened to Kenny Cunningham on OTB and he was saying how good Cullen, Molumby and Knight are in the system we play. We need three very mobile players in those three positions or we risk getting overrun. 

While I think Jeff still has a role for us against lesser opposition or to come off the bench, ideally he really shouldn't be starting as one of a three. I would be very disappointed to see Hourihane in future squads. Would rather try someone far less experienced but more suited to the role. 
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Originally posted by zizu Kilbane zizu Kilbane wrote:

The so called 'Friday night merchants' are the ones who are actually financially investing in Irish football simply by their existence. The bar stooler in the Liverpool/United/Celtic jersey is the one actively taking money out of the local football economy here. Every shirt they buy, every trip they across the water they take, is detrimental to Irish football. 

f**k their opinion because it means nothing. The good will behind the manager at the moment is generated by the real fans in the country. The ones who actually 'get' Irish football. (The fans that don't put on faux manc or scouse acents in the pub). We may or may nor be successful in the short term. C'est la vie! At least we have someone in charge who is trying to change the rotten culture we have in this country around football. If that's his only legacy, at least its a noble one.

Most fans (including many here) only tune in to Irish football when the senior mens team is playing. That is where their understanding of Irish football begins and ends
 
Could you tell what a real fan is?
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Originally posted by 50%lesssugar&salt 50%lesssugar&salt wrote:

Agree with the original point that we are very thin in midfield.

Listened to Kenny Cunningham on OTB and he was saying how good Cullen, Molumby and Knight are in the system we play. We need three very mobile players in those three positions or we risk getting overrun. 

While I think Jeff still has a role for us against lesser opposition or to come off the bench, ideally he really shouldn't be starting as one of a three. I would be very disappointed to see Hourihane in future squads. Would rather try someone far less experienced but more suited to the role. 



Agree with most of this, but I worry that Cullen, Molumby and Knight, while functional, offers way too little in an attacking sense. Ok away from home vs top seeds, but wouldnt like to be starting the 3 in a home game vs a 4th seed for example. 

Would like to see Smallbone introduced as the most advanced of the 3, Cullen as the deepest and then take your pick between Molumby and Knight as the energetic ball winner. Knight needs a move - for now I think Molumby gets the spot, but I'd argue Knight has a higher ceiling. Azaz might be an option as the understudy to Smallbone. Medium term Coventry to back up Cullen. 

For now we still need Hendrick and Browne in the squad. Smallbone for Hourihane has to happen immediately - only 2 warm up games before kick off.
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