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Ray Houghton
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Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

I guess you could equally argue there's a cult for Kenny-out.

Where the obsession is that anyone but Kenny can make us "competitive". 

Which I believe is the trigger word used to demonstrate a handful of wins in ten years.


Well we have been competitive under most of the managers that came before him. He is the worst manager we ever had, that's a fact.

Despite all that if Kenny gets 2 wins from the 3 remaining games then most people will accept another campaign, including me.

However you (well I for one) get the sense that others would be happy to see him get the Euros regardless of what happens in the remaining games.

At that point, there isn't much else to call it other than cult like.

I disagree that we've been competitive, when you compare games for example the 5-1 lose to Denmark vs the 1-0 win in Germany. We were terrible in both games. By some miracle we got a win in one and not the other but we can't really say we were competitive in either.

We were terrible against Russia and in the win vs Georgia. We offered very little as a football team in these games.

When our only game plan is to defend deep in numbers against ALL teams and hope for a sucker punch and then label it competitive..well I'd rather try something different even if it means short term pain for the potential of something better. 
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Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Survivors of 1993 Waco siege describe what happened in fire that ended the 51-day standoff - ABC News

LOL
Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
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Robbie Keane
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Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

Why is everything black and white these days?

Why is it that if you're happy to see Kenny continue, you're a part of some cult?

Why is it that if you liked Mick, somehow that means you don't like Kenny?

Can it be that you could have been a fan of both? Or changed your mind at some stage about one of them? 


I'm not speaking about you specifically here but if you are a poster that thinks it's acceptable to see Kenny continue after this campaign despite failing to beat Luxembourg or Azerbaijan in 4 outings resulting in no competitive wins in 15 competitive games, then you are completely blind in your support for Kenny.

No other Irish manager especially from a non LOI background would get anywhere near this cultist devotion in similar circumstances.  

its not cultist reasoning from my perspective we are prepared to give him a chance given all the circumstances and yes some of those might look like excuses but they are hard facts, like no home fans against Lux was a major disadvantage. Nothing to do with him being LOI. I find it hard to listen to him myself so not like i love the guy. But he trying something a bit different and knee jerk reactions without any plan B I would be less in favour of. 
For me, I started to really judge him from the Serbia game as the NL was a bedding on period and it was chaotic. 
Based on what I saw so far, we probably deserved the following results:
Serbia L
Lux D
Portugal D
Azerbaijan W
Serbia L

Not good enough to qualify anyway but Serbia and Portugal are strong. 
Now for sure its one thing deserving more vs. doing it but I think you need to see more than 5 games. The return fixtures and how we do will be key

I have seen more than 5 games Andy but Kenny could hardly say he wasn't given a chance should he fail to get 1 win out of 15 games which comprised of a favourable enough playoff draw, a Nations League and a world cup campaign. 


I really hope Kenny gets the win in the next 3 games but whether people on here want to face reality or not, he's very likely to get sacked if he doesn't and we finish up on 3 or 4 points.

My main concern isn't how the most the anti or pro Kenny acolytes on here  and other social media view Kenny, it's how the players do and if we fail to pick up a win in this group, I think it could be curtains for him as they'll probably have lost complete belief in him. 
Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by B6 6HE B6 6HE wrote:

Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Cultist devotion LOL

If you honestly believe this you’re a weird freak.

There is a Kenny cult.

All form of logical reasoning is gone. It is cultist

Ok weird freak.
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Ray Houghton
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I often think people arguing about Kenny think past the sale completely. 

Looking at the stats on Transfermarkt we have 31 players that have played Championship football so far this season. People like to moan about our lack of PL quality but the Championship stats shine a clearer light on the dire efforts of the FAI at grassroots level the last 20 although it's not as obvious as the PL for obvious reasons.

Of the 31 players 15 of them were born in the 5 years 1998-2002. That's a definite positive to have so many young players playing at Championship level many homegrown too. 

Of those 31 14 were born between 1990-1997. 9 of them between 1993-1997. How in gods name you can end up in that situation it's insane but as much as that shows how bad things have been (we are really suffering from it now) it also shows how well we are doing now at grassroots level. 

A lot of those lads Maguire Collins Egan Hourihane Stevens Lenihan Rea came up through the LOI/lower divisions as well. 

I wouldn't bat an eyelid on a micro level if we sacked Kenny (I do hope it works out for him) as results haven't been good enough. However we can't go back to the rubbish of the last few years with or without Kenny. Wales went through a period they were amongst Europe's worst as 4th and 5th seeds Scotland and NI went through it too. 

We may need to do it also most certainly for the next year or two. Having said that we can still actually snatch 3rd in the Group.  



Edited by kevin100 - 29 Sep 2021 at 7:46pm
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

The argument put out is that i[the Championship is] a strong league, among the 7 or 8 best in Europe. What a load of rubbish.

The Championship is a league you spend your life either trying to get out of, or try to stay out of. The quality is horrendous.

According to these guys, the Championship is the 9th strongest league in Europe:
https://www.globalfootballrankings.com/

That leaves it behind the Big Five (obv), plus Portugal, Netherlands and Russia (just)..

While it is rankied ahead of Belgium, Austria, Turkey, Switzerland, Denmark, Scotland, Bundesliga 2, Greece, Norway, Italy Serie B, Spain's Segunda, France Ligue 2 and Sweden in that order.

Next after those is the English League One i.e. 23rd in Europe, while English League Two is ranked 24th.

Remember, too, that nowhere else in the world comes even close to having 92 professional clubs in four full-time divisions, with more than half the 23 clubs in the National League (5th tier) also being f-t professional.

Compare that eg to Spain, where the top two divisions are f-t professional, but the divisions below that are regionalised and part-time. By the time you get to their 5th tier, it is amateur. Or try the Netherlands, where the teams below the top two divisions are essentially amateur.

I have watched quite a bit of Championship football live down the years and can tell you that the standard is actually pretty high - certainly nothing like "horrendous", which frankly is a ridiculous claim.

Not only that, but aside from the standard, the style of play is also ever more progressive, with fewer sides playing "dirtect" football than ever before, but instead seeking to emulate the passing style they see in the PL. Imo this is largely down to the influence of foreign owners and (esp) foreign coaches, along with the players they recruit from abroad.

Now after that diversion, yiz can all get back to discussing Kenny! LOL


Edited by Territorial - 29 Sep 2021 at 7:47pm
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Ray Houghton
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It's not a diversion, it's the standard our players are playing at, (yours also) that is being asked to go out there and win games for Kenny, or else people will demand he be sacked.

The fact so many Championship teams struggle just to finish 4th from bottom of the EPL, shows it really is a shockingly bad standard of football. And that is accurately reflected when said level footballers make the step up to trying to win games at international level, against the best the rest of Europe can offer. So expecting to win games against anyone bar part timers is a big ask of this squad at this time, which unfortunately a lot of people haven't understood yet. 


Edited by planning - 29 Sep 2021 at 8:56pm
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I do like those who sit on the fence or undecided  , now a good few but most of us on here are one way or the other .

Now if you dont worry about results is one thing but will the borad see it another way . 
Lansdowne Road debut aged 52 and 201 days .
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The one argument that absolutely baffles me is that we have a piss poor team that should not be expected to win against Luxembourg at home but who we should expect to see playing a nice brand of football which is pleasing on the eye. The argument that despite being the worst team ever to represent Ireland should play a passing game is so nonsensical as to be an attempt at moral victories rather than actual ones.
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Ray Houghton
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Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

The one argument that absolutely baffles me is that we have a piss poor team that should not be expected to win against Luxembourg at home but who we should expect to see playing a nice brand of football which is pleasing on the eye. The argument that despite being the worst team ever to represent Ireland should play a passing game is so nonsensical as to be an attempt at moral victories rather than actual ones.

 Your confusing 2 different things, firstly our players have potential to be good footballers but need time to establish themselves. Thats not saying they are piss poor.

Secondly passing the ball is the basics, nobody is suggesting tikka taka. Just use possession of the ball better. 

We've played defend deep in numbers and try to sucker punch the opposition with a long ball for long enough. It's not fooling anyone anymore.
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Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

It's not a diversion, it's the standard our players are playing at, (yours also) that is being asked to go out there and win games for Kenny, or else people will demand he be sacked.

The fact so many Championship teams struggle just to finish 4th from bottom of the EPL, shows it really is a shockingly bad standard of football. And that is accurately reflected when said level footballers make the step up to trying to win games at international level, against the best the rest of Europe can offer. So expecting to win games against anyone bar part timers is a big ask of this squad at this time, which unfortunately a lot of people haven't understood yet. 

Actually, Championship teams are ever more competitive.
Leicester won the prem 2 years after promotion.
At least 1 often now 2 of the 3 promoted sides stay up.

Championship is a decent standard. Just look at the budgets they have compared to most Euro leagues.
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Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Originally posted by B6 6HE B6 6HE wrote:

Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Cultist devotion LOL

If you honestly believe this you’re a weird freak.

There is a Kenny cult.

All form of logical reasoning is gone. It is cultist

Ok weird freak.

MOD ??
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Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

It's not a diversion, it's the standard our players are playing at, (yours also) that is being asked to go out there and win games for Kenny, or else people will demand he be sacked.

So you're completely ignoring the (objective) rankings table which I provided, then?

Maybe you thought no-one would notice.

As for NI, if anything, our players are at an even lower level (many League One, SPL etc) than ROI's.

But after a slow start for Baraclough over his first 8 or 10 games, we're now looking competitive with teams around our level, and starting to beat the teams below us.

Certainly the fans are pretty solidly behind the manager.

How that reflects on Kenny, I can't/won't say, since I have no 'dog in the fight'.

But to this objective observer, your badmouthing of the English Championship, for whatever purpose,  really doesn't bear scrutiny.
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Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

The one argument that absolutely baffles me is that we have a piss poor team that should not be expected to win against Luxembourg at home but who we should expect to see playing a nice brand of football which is pleasing on the eye. The argument that despite being the worst team ever to represent Ireland should play a passing game is so nonsensical as to be an attempt at moral victories rather than actual ones.

 Your confusing 2 different things, firstly our players have potential to be good footballers but need time to establish themselves. Thats not saying they are piss poor.

Secondly passing the ball is the basics, nobody is suggesting tikka taka. Just use possession of the ball better. 

We've played defend deep in numbers and try to sucker punch the opposition with a long ball for long enough. It's not fooling anyone anymore.

Posters on here are consistently telling us our players are shocking, we have hardly anyone even playing many minutes at their clubs, that it's possibly the worst Ireland team in generations. What does use the ball better mean? Pass it better? To what end? We don't have anyone to put the ball in the net we are told so is it passing for the sake of it? I am actually at the point where I can accept another campaign for Kenny if he picks up six points in the remaining games. However if he doesn't, having our poor players pass the ball around for the sake of it to give it to our non existent goalscorer and not beat Luxembourg or Azerbaijan over 4 games despite KPI saying we should have then he has to go. Surely that can be agreed on. 
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

It's not a diversion, it's the standard our players are playing at, (yours also) that is being asked to go out there and win games for Kenny, or else people will demand he be sacked.

So you're completely ignoring the (objective) rankings table which I provided, then?

Maybe you thought no-one would notice.

As for NI, if anything, our players are at an even lower level (many League One, SPL etc) than ROI's.

But after a slow start for Baraclough over his first 8 or 10 games, we're now looking competitive with teams around our level, and starting to beat the teams below us.

Certainly the fans are pretty solidly behind the manager.

How that reflects on Kenny, I can't/won't say, since I have no 'dog in the fight'.

But to this objective observer, your badmouthing of the English Championship, for whatever purpose,  really doesn't bear scrutiny.

How many full time professionals do NI even have?

Very well managed side.

Compare the atmosphere of Windsor Park compared to the Aviva.


Windsor Park has been a tougher fixture for the last 6 years now.
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Originally posted by B6 6HE B6 6HE wrote:

Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

The Championship is a stronger league than most European leagues such as Belgium, Norway, possibly even Holland now. 

If Luxembourg are any good they wouldn't be ranked where they are or the results they have gotten over the last 2 years.

We should be beating them. Simple as that. 

The Championship is an awful standard of football, always has been. It's the second tier for a reason. Unfortunately that's the highest club level most of our players are these days. And it shows on the international stage. 

Of course we should not expect to beat Luxembourg away from home. These days, Luxembourg internationals are scoring goals against Real Madrid in the European Cup, while the only squad player we have up to that level, is being urged to get away from there and go on loan instead, by the fans, and the pundits, and more worryingly, by his own manager. Just to lower the standard of available resources even further. 

McCarthy was hired to get us to the Euros, simple as that. He failed. So reminding us what his win ratio was against the mighty Gibraltar and New Zealand doesn't gloss over the fact he didn't do the job he was appointed for. 

Twice. 


This is completely untrue.

Being the league below the strongest league in the world is not a bad thing.

Name me another 2nd tier league where players move around for 10-20 million.

The mighty Serbia have Mitrovic playing up front for them, but he is good, it's our players that play in the Championship that are not good. Keep acting as if a ton of the players in the Championship wouldn't walk into those 'Champions League' elite teams.

The Championship is comfortably in the top 10 leagues in Europe. For overall standard, its probably 7th or 8th in Europe.

There's 24 decent sides. All competitive. Every game is close to call. Its a proper league. The PFA CAhampionship team of the year is very strong every year.

The top 6 in the Championship are better than at least 7 or 8 CL group sides and better than most of the EL sides.


Which 7 or 8 teams? Would love to see Coventry City try & win in the Bernabeu.
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Originally posted by 10 Box 10 Box wrote:

Originally posted by B6 6HE B6 6HE wrote:

Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

The Championship is a stronger league than most European leagues such as Belgium, Norway, possibly even Holland now. 

If Luxembourg are any good they wouldn't be ranked where they are or the results they have gotten over the last 2 years.

We should be beating them. Simple as that. 

The Championship is an awful standard of football, always has been. It's the second tier for a reason. Unfortunately that's the highest club level most of our players are these days. And it shows on the international stage. 

Of course we should not expect to beat Luxembourg away from home. These days, Luxembourg internationals are scoring goals against Real Madrid in the European Cup, while the only squad player we have up to that level, is being urged to get away from there and go on loan instead, by the fans, and the pundits, and more worryingly, by his own manager. Just to lower the standard of available resources even further. 

McCarthy was hired to get us to the Euros, simple as that. He failed. So reminding us what his win ratio was against the mighty Gibraltar and New Zealand doesn't gloss over the fact he didn't do the job he was appointed for. 

Twice. 


This is completely untrue.

Being the league below the strongest league in the world is not a bad thing.

Name me another 2nd tier league where players move around for 10-20 million.

The mighty Serbia have Mitrovic playing up front for them, but he is good, it's our players that play in the Championship that are not good. Keep acting as if a ton of the players in the Championship wouldn't walk into those 'Champions League' elite teams.

The Championship is comfortably in the top 10 leagues in Europe. For overall standard, its probably 7th or 8th in Europe.

There's 24 decent sides. All competitive. Every game is close to call. Its a proper league. The PFA CAhampionship team of the year is very strong every year.

The top 6 in the Championship are better than at least 7 or 8 CL group sides and better than most of the EL sides.


Which 7 or 8 teams? Would love to see Coventry City try & win in the Bernabeu.

Generally, with some exceptions, the bottom seeds are pretty poor.

West Brom  would certainly beat some of the weaker sides.


Edited by B6 6HE - 29 Sep 2021 at 10:02pm
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Originally posted by B6 6HE B6 6HE wrote:

Originally posted by 10 Box 10 Box wrote:

Originally posted by B6 6HE B6 6HE wrote:

Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

The Championship is a stronger league than most European leagues such as Belgium, Norway, possibly even Holland now. 

If Luxembourg are any good they wouldn't be ranked where they are or the results they have gotten over the last 2 years.

We should be beating them. Simple as that. 

The Championship is an awful standard of football, always has been. It's the second tier for a reason. Unfortunately that's the highest club level most of our players are these days. And it shows on the international stage. 

Of course we should not expect to beat Luxembourg away from home. These days, Luxembourg internationals are scoring goals against Real Madrid in the European Cup, while the only squad player we have up to that level, is being urged to get away from there and go on loan instead, by the fans, and the pundits, and more worryingly, by his own manager. Just to lower the standard of available resources even further. 

McCarthy was hired to get us to the Euros, simple as that. He failed. So reminding us what his win ratio was against the mighty Gibraltar and New Zealand doesn't gloss over the fact he didn't do the job he was appointed for. 

Twice. 


This is completely untrue.

Being the league below the strongest league in the world is not a bad thing.

Name me another 2nd tier league where players move around for 10-20 million.

The mighty Serbia have Mitrovic playing up front for them, but he is good, it's our players that play in the Championship that are not good. Keep acting as if a ton of the players in the Championship wouldn't walk into those 'Champions League' elite teams.

The Championship is comfortably in the top 10 leagues in Europe. For overall standard, its probably 7th or 8th in Europe.

There's 24 decent sides. All competitive. Every game is close to call. Its a proper league. The PFA CAhampionship team of the year is very strong every year.

The top 6 in the Championship are better than at least 7 or 8 CL group sides and better than most of the EL sides.


Which 7 or 8 teams? Would love to see Coventry City try & win in the Bernabeu.

Generally, with some exceptions, the bottom seeds are pretty poor.

West Brom  would certainly beat some of the weaker sides.
Good man :) unless they were crap on the day of course
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