It's the Stephen Kenny Thread |
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John Nice
Jack Charlton Joined: 10 Sep 2021 Location: Wexford Status: Offline Points: 5137 |
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That's fair enough and obviously I'm an Irish fan, so I would like to think that our lads are better on paper than Luxembourg's, but I'm trying to look at it objectively and while I think our back 5/6 come out on top, their front 5 is probably better than ours, based on where they are playing currently. Their 4 main men are all nice ages, have played together regularly and have scored at least 1 international goal (Rodrigues has 8). 2 are playing group stage CL football this season (Thill (27) and Martins (24)) , the other 2 (Barreiro (Captain at 21) and Gelson Rodrigues (26)) are in the Bundesliga and Ligue Un respectively (he played CL football and won the Ukrainian double last season). It's just not clear to me at all that we are better than them on paper and when you look at the absolute dearth of goals in our team it doesn't inspire any confidence whatsoever. Robinson has 1 in 20, Idah 0 in 10, Connolly 0 in 8ish?, Parrott 2 in 7ish? (both vs Andorra). 0 in 12 for Cullen, 2 in 64 for Hendrick, 1 in 7 for Knight (also vs Andorra). So our first choice front 5 (assuming we stick with 5 at the back) at best (if you stick Parrott in there) has 6 goals between them in 100 odd international games, 3 of which came in one game, a friendly vs Andorra.
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Idah Dream!
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John Nice
Jack Charlton Joined: 10 Sep 2021 Location: Wexford Status: Offline Points: 5137 |
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This again - I'm no radicalised kenny cult member, but I am a realist. I will repost once again hereunder and then I give up. Some people just dont want to see what is staring them in the face. Quite clearly Luxembourg's results since the beginning of 2018 are demonstrably better than ours. Of our 3 competitive victories, 2 (unconvincing to put it mildly) came against a Rock and the other was widely accepted as extremely lucky vs Georgia. World rankings mean very little as the following illustrates, I'll re-iterate "Since the beginning of 2018 Luxembourg have recorded victories (11) (9 competitive/2 Friendlies) over Azerbaijan x 2, Cyprus, Montenegro, Lithuania, Moldova, San Marino x 2, Malta, Georgia and Ireland Since the beginning of 2018, Ireland have recorded victories (7) (3 competitive/4 Friendlies) over Andorra, New Zealand, USA, Gibralter x 2, Georgia and Bulgaria Now, I am certainly not claiming Luxembourg are Brazil - Are we back to the usual trite responses? Ireland have beaten nobody of any note since scraping a 1-0 victory away to Wales in October 2017 (That was a full 3 years before Kenny took charge btw). Luxembourg beat Hungary 2-1 in November 2017. I dont think some people realise just how big a hole we were/are in - Kenny has begun the process of trying to extricate us from that hole, but it is going to take time. Whether or not he is the right man for the job who knows, but people should at least deal in facts when assessing where we are at and why. CLUE - Its not all Kennys fault and this didnt just happen when he took over the reins." |
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Idah Dream!
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horsebox
Robbie Keane Born n bred in darndale. Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 34721 |
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Your bigging up their players to something they clearly are not and dismissing our players completely, Matt Doherty being nothing more than an EPL reserve - he was one of the best wing backs in the EPL for a number of years. Losing an home to Luxembourg is an unacceptable result. |
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It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me, He wouldn't set me free, So he kept me soul for ransom. na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na. I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to |
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Trap junior
Robbie Keane YBIG Minister of Doom & Gloom Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Irish Riviera Status: Offline Points: 39490 |
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The teams Luxembourg have beaten are piss poor sides. Ireland under decent managers beat the minnows home and away. It's only under Kenny and the likes of clueless Stan are we finding this difficult. Mick had a 50% win ratio for the Euro Qualifiers Its 6% under Kenny. The squad has not disimproved. You like to use stats then dismiss other stats. You don't get many points for beating dross. That Luxembourg squad is terrible! All the Kenny Cultists now make out the likes of Luxembourg and Azerbaijan are no mugs. Do me a favour! |
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Pied Piper to: Baldrick, Brendan 88, 9Fingers, Borussia and more...
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shakeyshamrock
500 Club la la la Joined: 25 May 2011 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 577 |
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The same Doherty that was hooked at half time in that game? The same guy who didn't really play all that much last season, or this? It's fine to say he had 2 good seasons with Wolves, but we didn't play Luxembourg during that time.. I see the Luxembourg result very much like a cup upset - it's not nice when it happens, but they come up from time to time - and if you dig into the reasons for it, you will find that the level their players play at and the level ours play at are not wholly dissimilar - the added fact that they've been playing as a team together for a long time and we're in a rebuild and a bit callow, well, it was made for them to do what they did and they took their chance well.. I think if you find it "unacceptable" that's about you and your expectations.. I didn't like it as a result, and I didn't enjoy the match, but hey! it's football, you get good results, you get bad ones.. The real test for our players and management is the response to it (and the Aze result) and how they do in the return games.. it's ok to lose, that happens.. but we have to learn from it - we'll find out over the next few games how much we've learned..
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John Nice
Jack Charlton Joined: 10 Sep 2021 Location: Wexford Status: Offline Points: 5137 |
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Mick won 3 competitive games in 3 years, 2 vs Gibralter, 1 vs Georgia prior to Kenny taking over. Dress that up whatever way you want, I have no axe to grind with Mick, the squad was as poor then as it is now. Kenny is trying to address this (it wasn't in Mick's brief tbf to him), it's not easy. We have fallen off a cliff over the last 5 years, we are taking the first tentative steps towards a recovery, patience is required. Over half of the 30 players called up to the last squad were 25 or under and almost 2/3 were not first choice for their respective clubs. The Luxembourg squad is average, as is ours. I know nothing about Azerbaijan.
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Idah Dream!
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John Nice
Jack Charlton Joined: 10 Sep 2021 Location: Wexford Status: Offline Points: 5137 |
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THIS!
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Idah Dream!
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Trap junior
Robbie Keane YBIG Minister of Doom & Gloom Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Irish Riviera Status: Offline Points: 39490 |
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Yes and Kenny has not won any. When we failed to beat Denmark at home under Mick the Kenny brigade were angry that he wasnlt getting the most out of our players. Now the Kenny disciples are telling us we shouldn't be expecting to win against Luxembourg.
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Pied Piper to: Baldrick, Brendan 88, 9Fingers, Borussia and more...
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gspain
Ray Houghton Joined: 21 Apr 2010 Status: Offline Points: 4676 |
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Since you are so fond of stats. Stan won 6, drew 6 and lost 5 of his 17 games in charge. His wins included Sweden, Denmark, Wales and Slovakia. His side drew with Germany and Czech Rep. 4 of his 5 defeats were v Chile, Netherlands, Germany & Czechs. The performances v Cyprus were embarrassing. We were awful but still beat San Marino away. He was really unfortunate in that Bobby Robson got ill and was not available as much as expected. He was also a top player for us earning over 100 caps and remains the only Irishman to have played in 3 FIFA World Cups. Sadly that won't be equalled for a very very long time if ever. |
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MayoMark
Moderator Group The NEW angrier Freewheeler Joined: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Castlebar Status: Offline Points: 26274 |
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Why is everything black and white these days?
Why is it that if you're happy to see Kenny continue, you're a part of some cult? Why is it that if you liked Mick, somehow that means you don't like Kenny? Can it be that you could have been a fan of both? Or changed your mind at some stage about one of them?
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They finally did it man... They killed my f**kin' car...
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MayoMark
Moderator Group The NEW angrier Freewheeler Joined: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Castlebar Status: Offline Points: 26274 |
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Or maybe you think we should be beating Luxembourg, and also at the same time think that Kenny could do with more time?
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They finally did it man... They killed my f**kin' car...
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Badgersboys9
Ray Houghton Joined: 12 Oct 2019 Status: Offline Points: 3287 |
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How do you join this cult? If theres animal sacrifices I'm out though.
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horsebox
Robbie Keane Born n bred in darndale. Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 34721 |
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Why is beating Luxembourg at home an unacceptable expectation? Edited by horsebox - 29 Sep 2021 at 4:41pm |
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It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me, He wouldn't set me free, So he kept me soul for ransom. na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na. I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to |
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Left foot
Ray Houghton Joined: 16 Aug 2019 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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You don't even have to like Kenny to know that someone else coming in will not do much better. Maybe make us more defensive which few people want after 20 years of it. Personally I enjoy seeing us pass the ball and have some good passages of play. I agree that results have been depressing but from what I've seen in terms of chances created I'm optimistic we can get better results. I dont want to speak for other people but I feel people see that we are painfully building a new team and are realistic about what that means regarding results. Really happy with oshea, bazunu, omobamidele, knight and Cullen coming in and I would say that Duffy, Coleman and Doherty haven't played better under all the other managers But yes... results are bad and that can't be denied.
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Paulie
Liam Brady Joined: 06 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 2968 |
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If you're currently a member of a cult can you still join this one? I'm already in The Stonecutters.
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B6 6HE
Liam Brady Joined: 25 Aug 2021 Status: Offline Points: 1028 |
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You sacrifice any hope of ever being competitive. You deride anyone who questions the glorious Kenny All hail Kenny his 'project' |
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E2016
Liam Brady Joined: 13 Jan 2016 Location: Cork Status: Offline Points: 1700 |
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Generally you ignore everything that Stephen Kenny said before taking the job - things that he has now contradicted - such as talking about how qualifying for Qatar was a serious ambition (turns out it wasn't, oops). Or about how we had one of the best defences in Europe (he can't keep a clean sheet with them, wierdly enough). Or about how he would have to prove himself in this campaign if he wanted a new contract (turns out it's the next campaign where he is going to prove himself, just trust him). The next step is to ignore the results, ignore the fact that we haven't won a competitive game under him and have won 1 game in 15 against a team of semi pros. The next step is to overpraise the performances, talk about how you can 'see what he is doing' as we lump cross after cross into the box v Azerbaijan, or after Luxembourg run rings around us, or after we put in the most humiliating performance v England in decades, or after we stink the place out v the likes of Bulgaria home and away. Part of this involves being happy in draws and defeat in a way we never have been. So when Mick draws home and away v Denmark and draws at home v Switzerland, this is not good. When Stephen Kenny loses v Portugal, Serbia and gets a completely undeserved draw v Serbia, this is good and 'evidence of progress'. Next you have to pretend that the job of the senior manager is to revolutionise football in this country, and that the dross that is being served up at senior level is something to be aspired to and replicated. You have to pretend that the senior manager has all these extra responsibilities and influences that he doesn't have - because now you can praise him for these things. He says teams all the way up should play 4-3-3 (when he has tried numerous formations including 5-2-3) and teams shouldn't play 4-4-2 (Quick, tell La Liga Champions Atletico Madrid!). Next you have to talk up every team we play against into these international footballing behemoths, who for some reason only seem to assume that status when they play us. Because when they play other teams they play and lose as you expect them to. A good strategy here is to talk up minnow leagues, ignore the fact that the Premier League is the best league in the world and that the Championship is very competitive as a result. You definitely want to ignore the fact that teams who do well in the Championship often compete very well in the Premier League after promotion (with largely the same players) - no, because the Championship is bad and our players playing there is bad. Not top league in country = bad. However being playing in Ukraine or the Premier Division in Moldova means you are hot sh*t. So after you do all that you need to keep saying that Stephen Kenny deserves more time, you need to put down or dismiss all of the Irish football legends who can see he isn't up to it - because what have those lads done anyway, what would they know? You also need to dismiss managers with CV's that Kenny could only dream of because, for example, they got sacked at a club like Forest, when Kenny would never be offered that calibre of job. So yeah, do all of that and I think they'll have you. |
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planning
Ray Houghton Football version of Comical Ali. Joined: 17 Mar 2012 Status: Offline Points: 3836 |
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The Championship is an awful standard of football, always has been. It's the second tier for a reason. Unfortunately that's the highest club level most of our players are these days. And it shows on the international stage. Of course we should not expect to beat Luxembourg away from home. These days, Luxembourg internationals are scoring goals against Real Madrid in the European Cup, while the only squad player we have up to that level, is being urged to get away from there and go on loan instead, by the fans, and the pundits, and more worryingly, by his own manager. Just to lower the standard of available resources even further. McCarthy was hired to get us to the Euros, simple as that. He failed. So reminding us what his win ratio was against the mighty Gibraltar and New Zealand doesn't gloss over the fact he didn't do the job he was appointed for. Twice.
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