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Robbie Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2021 at 2:44pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

I agree PM.  I think as a football fan many of us watch football with both our head and our heart.  

Your heart gives you hope and it is deluded at times too and it can also give you pessimism at times.  I am sure most football fans can relate to it’s the hope that kills you. So as an Ireland fan I would have hope that we can get four points from our next two games and it’s possible.  

However once you start analysing  it your head has to say that 3rd is the best we can expect and we have a really poor to average group of players and we are struggling big time and do not have anyone who scored regularly at a decent level.  

I think what has happened on here is that because we won’t fulfill what people hope for in their hearts that the manager gets the blame for that for disappointing them and they take their anger out on the manager when the reality is we don’t have the players for much better than 2nd. 
Third, surely? We are miles off both the other sides in our group, regardless of injuries or anything else. The only slim hope is that Serbia repeat their history of underachievement and even then we don't seem to be in any position to capitalise. 
Luxembourg and Azerbaijan are both tricky. 10 points from 12 against them would be a good return and anything else would be a bonus.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maccatacca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2021 at 2:46pm
Originally posted by Banjaxed Banjaxed wrote:

Even with a fully fit squad, it would be a battle to get 2nd place. 

Any hope I have has nothing to do with us but with others. Decent 2nd/3rd tier teams are far too partial to a meltdown. 

Austria is usually a.bad draw, but had a meltdown last time out in our group. 

Serbia have a new manager. A cult hero. I get the feeling they'll comfortably make 2nd or brain fart their way through the group.

We'll always have the incompetence of other teams to hope for. 

Infairness, I think we deserved our four points against Austria in that campaign and suffered a bit of a meltdown ourselves after Coleman broke his leg. We were a solid team, had a game plan and had players featuring regularly at club level. Unfortunately the Denmark hammering at the end of that campaign has continued to haunt us.

For me, Serbia often have a better squad on paper than the likes of Denmark, Switzerland, Austria, Poland etc. But their inconsistencies bring them closer to the level we're usually at i.e. challenging for second place.

In this campaign I think Serbia will finish a good bit ahead of us - they've a talented bunch of players and are probably closer to Portugal than we are to them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2021 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

I agree PM.  I think as a football fan many of us watch football with both our head and our heart.  

Your heart gives you hope and it is deluded at times too and it can also give you pessimism at times.  I am sure most football fans can relate to it’s the hope that kills you. So as an Ireland fan I would have hope that we can get four points from our next two games and it’s possible.  

However once you start analysing  it your head has to say that 3rd is the best we can expect and we have a really poor to average group of players and we are struggling big time and do not have anyone who scored regularly at a decent level.  

I think what has happened on here is that because we won’t fulfill what people hope for in their hearts that the manager gets the blame for that for disappointing them and they take their anger out on the manager when the reality is we don’t have the players for much better than 2nd. 
Third, surely? We are miles off both the other sides in our group, regardless of injuries or anything else. The only slim hope is that Serbia repeat their history of underachievement and even then we don't seem to be in any position to capitalise. 
Luxembourg and Azerbaijan are both tricky. 10 points from 12 against them would be a good return and anything else would be a bonus.

Yeah sorry brain saying one thing and typing another.  3rd of course. 
AKA pedantic kunt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2021 at 2:59pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

I agree PM.  I think as a football fan many of us watch football with both our head and our heart.  

Your heart gives you hope and it is deluded at times too and it can also give you pessimism at times.  I am sure most football fans can relate to it’s the hope that kills you. So as an Ireland fan I would have hope that we can get four points from our next two games and it’s possible.  



I reminds me of some supporters in advance of Euro 2012 who would blithely say "sure we'll get three draws and come home". This was in spite of the fact that our spine was ageing and injured, and a number of players travelled who were out of contract and were free agents, we also left behind a number of decent options. When you looked at our squad, agains that of the other teams, alarm bells should have been ringing, especially as maximum effort was going to be employed by those terms.

Sadly this is much lower grade, as its not at a finals, but qualification. We have no spine, we have no outstanding players, our collective is toothless and made up of journeymen. The best we can actually hope for is the evolution of some of the young players knocking around the squad, or that the likes of Cullen can bring his form from Belgium into our setup. But I'm cynical. I think as fans of the past thirty five years we have seen us qualify for three World Cups, three European Cups, and get to play offs for six other major finals (Euro 2020 p/o may or may not count). The number of times we have been knocked out before the final bell of qualification is a rarity, and what happened to us in 2013 and 2008 even less frequent whereby we played the last games of qualification as dead rubber. As a result, you come to expect a strong showing, good defensive play, and perhaps the occasional rub of the green.

But, during those times, we either had some top class players available, or we had a very good core of players available. Right now, our players are ageing, out of form, or untested at international level. As PM says, its like the darker days for Wales and NI.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hotlips_Hoolahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2021 at 3:06pm
Serbia's results are right here.


1 win in their last 8 games during 90 minutes. 1 clean sheet in their last 16 games. Barely any wins over any team of note. Since 2014, they have three wins against good teams (which is less than us). They very rarely beat teams comprehensively, even teams like Luxembourg who they've played recently enough. Their record against British/Irish teams in recent times is W1 D4 L0.

There is nothing to suggest that it won't be a tight game. We'll lose in all likelihood, but everything is going against us. Who knows what difference it would've made if we could've put out anything approaching our strongest side.


Edited by Hotlips_Hoolahan - 13 Mar 2021 at 3:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2021 at 3:09pm
Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Serbia's results are right here.


1 win in their last 8 games during 90 minutes. 1 clean sheet in their last 16 games. Barely any wins over any team of note. Since 2014, they have three wins against good teams (which is less than us). They very rarely beat teams comprehensively, even teams like Luxembourg who they've played recently enough. Their record against British/Irish teams in recent times is W1 D4 L0.

There is nothing to suggest that it won't be a tight game. We'll lose in all likelihood, but everything is going against us. Who knows what difference it would've made if we could've put out anything approaching our strongest side.

It would be a tighter game. But I wouldn't for a second expect us to score, let alone win. Since the Welsh game in 2017 we have won three games competitively, and two of those were against Gibraltar (scoring three goals over 180 mins).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nialler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2021 at 3:14pm
Yup. We are in a bad place but I don't think people get how ridiculous Serbian football is. They have some good players but basically they are Ireland in the 70's 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2021 at 3:24pm
Serbia and Portugal for how good they are, often drop points in qualifying formats and often do better when the tournament has actually begun.

It’s going to be a tough group but it’s not like we don’t stand a chance. The negativity in the ROI section really has made it a depressing read full of nonsense, much like an anti-vaxxer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2021 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Serbia and Portugal for how good they are, often drop points in qualifying formats and often do better when the tournament has actually begun.

It’s going to be a tough group but it’s not like we don’t stand a chance. The negativity in the ROI section really has made it a depressing read full of nonsense, much like an anti-vaxxer.

I don't think its nonsense to be pessimistic Coyner. Truth is, we are now at the stage where we are talking down opponents based on them dropping points. Like I said before, our last big win came in 2017 against Wales, and our last win of any quality was against Georgia two years ago. At least under McCarthy there was a team that was in form and playing regularly. But even that team couldn't win games, or score. Last we we scored one goal, over eight games, and since then we have had retirements, injuries, and failed transfers.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to eat humble pie should we get 4 points in the next two games, but my opinion is against the context of the past four years, and the acceleration of the problems since the end of last year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AonSceal19 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2021 at 3:44pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Serbia and Portugal for how good they are, often drop points in qualifying formats and often do better when the tournament has actually begun.

It’s going to be a tough group but it’s not like we don’t stand a chance. The negativity in the ROI section really has made it a depressing read full of nonsense, much like an anti-vaxxer.

Ireland will not finish above Portugal. Serbia are capable of getting a  result against Portugal but they are also capable of losing to us. Our best hope is Portugal to win every game and for us to better Serbia’s results. We need Serbia to underperform. The tie breaker is goal difference as well if two teams end up on the same points. 


Edited by AonSceal19 - 13 Mar 2021 at 3:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NewtNewbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2021 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by AonSceal19 AonSceal19 wrote:

Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Serbia and Portugal for how good they are, often drop points in qualifying formats and often do better when the tournament has actually begun.

It’s going to be a tough group but it’s not like we don’t stand a chance. The negativity in the ROI section really has made it a depressing read full of nonsense, much like an anti-vaxxer.

Ireland will not finish above Portugal. Serbia are capable of getting a  result against Portugal but they are also capable of losing to us. Our best hope is Portugal to win every game and for us to better Serbia’s results. We need Serbia to underperform. The tie breaker is goal difference as well if two teams end up on the same points. 

Really? Not head-to-head?

We'd probably be better off viewing this campaign as a rebuilding exercise and throwing the kids in. We have little to no chance of being competitive in the group as things stand. Therefore there's little point in Kenny continuing to select the likes of Horgan and Arter, who really offer us nothing moving forward.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2021 at 4:07pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Serbia and Portugal for how good they are, often drop points in qualifying formats and often do better when the tournament has actually begun.

It’s going to be a tough group but it’s not like we don’t stand a chance. The negativity in the ROI section really has made it a depressing read full of nonsense, much like an anti-vaxxer.

I don't think its nonsense to be pessimistic Coyner. Truth is, we are now at the stage where we are talking down opponents based on them dropping points. Like I said before, our last big win came in 2017 against Wales, and our last win of any quality was against Georgia two years ago. At least under McCarthy there was a team that was in form and playing regularly. But even that team couldn't win games, or score. Last we we scored one goal, over eight games, and since then we have had retirements, injuries, and failed transfers.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to eat humble pie should we get 4 points in the next two games, but my opinion is against the context of the past four years, and the acceleration of the problems since the end of last year.

Maybe you're right. But having it constantly shoved down your throats is just tiring to read at this stage.

Just need to see some of the goons in the Parrott thread for an example. It's like some people get a thrill out of the team or certain invididuals failing, like what even are you? LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fozz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2021 at 4:10pm
A lot of good points here.
I'm in the camp of just using this campaign to blood players, systems and tactics into the younger cadre, phase out older pros who's level has plateaued and take 3rd as our target.

I'm not giving the option of coming 2nd any credence really as it seems so unlikely as to be approaching fantasy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2021 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:


Maybe you're right. But having it constantly shoved down your throats is just tiring to read at this stage.

Just need to see some of the goons in the Parrott thread for an example. It's like some people get a thrill out of the team or certain invididuals failing, like what even are you? LOL

I find the Parrott thread exceedingly boring. It seems like he is playing every night of the week, with a seance being held over every move in his games. I understand why people are interested, as a couple of years ago he was getting game time for a Champions League finalist. But now he is scrapping in League 1, and no young players seems to be as under the microscope as much as Parrott. I suppose people saw a comparison with Keane.

Im not sure its being shoved down throats, as I feel there is more just resignation after three of the poorest years, in recent memory for Irish football, which just doesnt seem to be able to catch a break at the moment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2021 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

I agree PM.  I think as a football fan many of us watch football with both our head and our heart.  

Your heart gives you hope and it is deluded at times too and it can also give you pessimism at times.  I am sure most football fans can relate to it’s the hope that kills you. So as an Ireland fan I would have hope that we can get four points from our next two games and it’s possible.  

However once you start analysing  it your head has to say that 3rd is the best we can expect and we have a really poor to average group of players and we are struggling big time and do not have anyone who scored regularly at a decent level.  

I think what has happened on here is that because we won’t fulfill what people hope for in their hearts that the manager gets the blame for that for disappointing them and they take their anger out on the manager when the reality is we don’t have the players for much better than 2nd. 
Third, surely? We are miles off both the other sides in our group, regardless of injuries or anything else. The only slim hope is that Serbia repeat their history of underachievement and even then we don't seem to be in any position to capitalise. 
Luxembourg and Azerbaijan are both tricky. 10 points from 12 against them would be a good return and anything else would be a bonus.

Yeah sorry brain saying one thing and typing another.  3rd of course. 

I know things aren't good with our team but I don't think we're at the Wales/N.I. level when they were at their lowest ebb throughout the late 90s/2000s where they were nearly the whipping boys off the group. That's going a bit too far to describe us at that level now imo.  

Historically and generally I suppose, we're fairly competitive for second spot in most of our qualification campaigns. 

Serbia are a dangerous side because they're unpredictable and temperamental which can work to our advantage in some ways but to our detriment in others. They have the capability of dropping points to us at home but then beating Portugal given they have the players to do so. 

I'm still glad we got Serbia over Switzerland that N.I. got as at the very least there is sliver of hope that we can compete with them for second spot. They don't have the consistency of Denmark and Switzerland who they are arguably just as good technically. 
Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2021 at 8:30pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

I agree PM.  I think as a football fan many of us watch football with both our head and our heart.  

Your heart gives you hope and it is deluded at times too and it can also give you pessimism at times.  I am sure most football fans can relate to it’s the hope that kills you. So as an Ireland fan I would have hope that we can get four points from our next two games and it’s possible.  

However once you start analysing  it your head has to say that 3rd is the best we can expect and we have a really poor to average group of players and we are struggling big time and do not have anyone who scored regularly at a decent level.  

I think what has happened on here is that because we won’t fulfill what people hope for in their hearts that the manager gets the blame for that for disappointing them and they take their anger out on the manager when the reality is we don’t have the players for much better than 2nd. 
Third, surely? We are miles off both the other sides in our group, regardless of injuries or anything else. The only slim hope is that Serbia repeat their history of underachievement and even then we don't seem to be in any position to capitalise. 
Luxembourg and Azerbaijan are both tricky. 10 points from 12 against them would be a good return and anything else would be a bonus.

Yah I think we're going to drop points on one of those 4 must win fixtures against the weaker sides in the group but it wouldn't surprise me if Serbia did the same. 

It will still boil down to us needing a minimum of 4 points of Serbia irrespective of other fixtures to have any chance of finishing ahead of them which isn't going to happen either.  
Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2021 at 8:34pm
And if we do, Kenny should be given the freedom of the country.  I know hope springs eternal, but we are ridiculously slow to accept reality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rebelbrowser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2021 at 8:41pm
Lads, does Mitrovic still start for Serbia? Just cut to him on the bench on BT, Jesus he's two stone overweight.....
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