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It's the Stephen Kenny Thread

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Lenny82 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lenny82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2021 at 10:59am
Has it proven to get better results? Maybe once upon a time but not in Mick's last campaign, nor the NL and WCQ before that.

Mick scraped 2 wins against Gibraltar and parked the bus for every other game. His only good performance was the last match v Denmark when we only really got going when we went a goal down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2021 at 11:05am
Originally posted by Lenny82 Lenny82 wrote:

If there was another poll on keeping Stephen Kenny, or not, it would have to be up around 95% now.

I just can't get my head around the few on here that keep saying 'Look at the table' or 'We lost at home to Luxembourg'.

We were never going to get out of this group and finally we are playing something that resembles football.

There is nobody I can think of who will know our players the way he does, play this style and do it for that salary.
Lenny i will put up a poll at the end of the game Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stickittotheman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2021 at 11:05am
Originally posted by Lenny82 Lenny82 wrote:

Has it proven to get better results? Maybe once upon a time but not in Mick's last campaign, nor the NL and WCQ before that.

Mick scraped 2 wins against Gibraltar and parked the bus for every other game. His only good performance was the last match v Denmark when we only really got going when we went a goal down.

Of course Mick got better results. We were one goal away from qualifying. MON took us to the Euros. So did Trap. They had better results to. We also had a home game vs Denmark where we imploded to qualify for 2018. All this seems to be forgotten. Kenny has us playing decently the last few months but anything less than 3rd is a very poor return. But in saying that if you can't see some potential over the last few games you are just being stubborn. He has to keep it going though.
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 9fingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2021 at 11:09am
Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by 9fingers 9fingers wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

We are constantly reminded that football is "all about opinions". But for a small very vocal minority on here even mild criticism of Kenny's record leads to a pile-on, accusations of personal vendettas etc etc. Ex-players opinions are dismissed, unless of course they support Kenny. Finishing 4th in this competition is failure, unless the word failure has lost all its meaning. I think (hope) we will finish 3rd, that reflects our current level. 

But what do you want? 
What are your expectations? 
Have you seen any improvement in how we play now to 2-3 years ago? 

These are the questions none of you have answered. 

Improvement in how we play from 2-3 years ago is relative. We are playing easier on the eye football yet 2 years ago we were one goal from automatic qualification to the Euros in a group containing Denmark and Switzerland. My expectations at the beginning of the campaign was to be pushing for a play off spot. I want to qualify for tournaments. Has Kenny shown enough? Not wholly convinced he has to be honest. But more time needed.
Of course it is, we had more players getting game time at higher levels in the past, while struggling to beat Georgia & Gibraltar gone and away. As you say all relative 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 9fingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2021 at 11:10am
Originally posted by Claret Murph Claret Murph wrote:

Originally posted by Lenny82 Lenny82 wrote:

If there was another poll on keeping Stephen Kenny, or not, it would have to be up around 95% now.

I just can't get my head around the few on here that keep saying 'Look at the table' or 'We lost at home to Luxembourg'.

We were never going to get out of this group and finally we are playing something that resembles football.

There is nobody I can think of who will know our players the way he does, play this style and do it for that salary.
Lenny i will put up a poll at the end of the game Thumbs Up
Why? 
 
This absolute nonsense of basing decisions on 90 mins of football has to stop, where does it end? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doherty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2021 at 11:14am
Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Oh ya hoof it long again and we will be banging in the goals. We have the same forwards no matter how we play. We have been doung ok recently with chances created. Were working on the goals part but we cannot create a ready made goal scorer if he aint there yet.

Ffs why are you obsessed with the hoof it long. As if that is the only alternative. Direct play doesn't necessarily mean hoof ball.

Obsessed? What are you on about
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2021 at 11:22am
Right as you know i never wanted Kenny as the manager as i see this contected to JD and the past which i never want to see the like again . I am not anti Dublin or LOI i just think he " was " not the man for the job .
So put that to a side and look at the details , now results matter people think they don't are losers simple really as defeats will lead to one thing , the sack . 
 So the Euro's one game we were unlucky and lost on pens .
NL league a total shocker simple as that .
World Cup started off very bad and got better towards the end .
So 3 failures now you can paint it anyway you like but these are the facts .

What ever happens tonight i do not think the board need to act right away . i think Kenny should still be the manager until July as they don't need to sack him we will play like for like sides in NL games and we have to get results .
Come July the board can sit down and see where we are only then they can decide to stick or twist .


Edited by Claret Murph - 14 Nov 2021 at 11:24am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stickittotheman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2021 at 11:23am
Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Oh ya hoof it long again and we will be banging in the goals. We have the same forwards no matter how we play. We have been doung ok recently with chances created. Were working on the goals part but we cannot create a ready made goal scorer if he aint there yet.

Ffs why are you obsessed with the hoof it long. As if that is the only alternative. Direct play doesn't necessarily mean hoof ball.

Obsessed? What are you on about

Every time someone mentions an alternative you immediately start with the hoof ball. That of course implieds just launching the ball aimlessly upfield akin to MON's Nations league campaign which was hoof ball- utterly rudderless. Direct football can be effective with the right tactics and when played with organisation.


Edited by Stickittotheman - 14 Nov 2021 at 11:24am
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doherty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2021 at 11:33am
Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Oh ya hoof it long again and we will be banging in the goals. We have the same forwards no matter how we play. We have been doung ok recently with chances created. Were working on the goals part but we cannot create a ready made goal scorer if he aint there yet.

Ffs why are you obsessed with the hoof it long. As if that is the only alternative. Direct play doesn't necessarily mean hoof ball.

Obsessed? What are you on about

Every time someone mentions an alternative you immediately start with the hoof ball. That of course implieds just launching the ball aimlessly upfield akin to MON's Nations league campaign which was hoof ball- utterly rudderless. Direct football can be effective with the right tactics and when played with organisation.

Your crazy mate. Find me these imaginary posts. You must have me mixed up with someone else in your mind. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stickittotheman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2021 at 11:35am
Originally posted by 9fingers 9fingers wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by 9fingers 9fingers wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

We are constantly reminded that football is "all about opinions". But for a small very vocal minority on here even mild criticism of Kenny's record leads to a pile-on, accusations of personal vendettas etc etc. Ex-players opinions are dismissed, unless of course they support Kenny. Finishing 4th in this competition is failure, unless the word failure has lost all its meaning. I think (hope) we will finish 3rd, that reflects our current level. 

But what do you want? 
What are your expectations? 
Have you seen any improvement in how we play now to 2-3 years ago? 

These are the questions none of you have answered. 

Improvement in how we play from 2-3 years ago is relative. We are playing easier on the eye football yet 2 years ago we were one goal from automatic qualification to the Euros in a group containing Denmark and Switzerland. My expectations at the beginning of the campaign was to be pushing for a play off spot. I want to qualify for tournaments. Has Kenny shown enough? Not wholly convinced he has to be honest. But more time needed.
Of course it is, we had more players getting game time at higher levels in the past, while struggling to beat Georgia & Gibraltar gone and away. As you say all relative 

In Micks last game we had Duffy, Egan, Stevens, Doherty, McClean, Hendrick and Robinson who came on as a sub. All of these will probably start tonight Bar Stevens and McClean who are vying for one spot. He also had Alan Browne and Conor Hourihane in the team who will be subs later. The replacements for the others have been: Bazunu for Randolph. Cullen for Whelan and Idah for McGoldrick. Added to that Browne and Hourihane out for O'Shea/Coleman and McGrath/Knight with the change of shape. A lot of the stalwarts remain 
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stickittotheman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2021 at 11:36am
Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Oh ya hoof it long again and we will be banging in the goals. We have the same forwards no matter how we play. We have been doung ok recently with chances created. Were working on the goals part but we cannot create a ready made goal scorer if he aint there yet.

Ffs why are you obsessed with the hoof it long. As if that is the only alternative. Direct play doesn't necessarily mean hoof ball.

Obsessed? What are you on about

Every time someone mentions an alternative you immediately start with the hoof ball. That of course implieds just launching the ball aimlessly upfield akin to MON's Nations league campaign which was hoof ball- utterly rudderless. Direct football can be effective with the right tactics and when played with organisation.

Your crazy mate. Find me these imaginary posts. You must have me mixed up with someone else in your mind. 

I apologise if that is the case. Must be mixed up with someone else.
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote E2016 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2021 at 11:42am
There is a certain rewriting of history that goes on with Kenny - an attempt to forget or gloss over numerous games or performances and paint them in a different light. 

The nations league was dismal. We had numerous poor games in this group too and only have 1 win. People at that time were also spewing the 'if you cant see where we are going then you dont know about football guff'. What we were seeing then was a team completely lacking in organisation, with huge tactical issues and a team which sacrificed defensive solidity for pretty much nothing going forward. There was nothing there.

There have been improvements in recent games, nobody is denying that. The Serbia game was a relatively poor performance but decent result and  showed some other good qualities such as character. Good result and performance away to Azerbaijan. Good performance and result in a friendly and now to Portugal too. 

Some of our play out from the back v Portugal was very good. We played very well against a team with some of the best players in the world, that cant be denied.

So you've got 3.5 good performances/results in a row. A win against Luxembourg tonight would be huge in terms of showing that we definitely can win games.

It still has to be an issue if he cannot win tonight, going into the next campaign where people are surely expecting qualification at that point - and there's no evidence that we would be able to get the 5 or so wins that would have us in contention. If he does win tonight then I think it is really big for him in terms of proving that he will be capable of getting those wins.

He is still prone to a tactical or substitution brain fart - our game v Azerbaijan at home was like something you would have seen under the worst of the last 3 managers. Even the other night when he took off Jamie McGrath for Idah and went with the 5-2-3 instead of the 5-3-2 (although McGrath did roam into the wide left position occasionally) it was very alarming and we were quite lucky that Portugal got the red card as he effectively surrendered the midfield area and it would have been a very difficult final 15 vs 11 men.

So yes, finally in the last couple of games there is real signs of progress. Still some question marks but getting the win tonight would shut down a lot of those question marks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greenie50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2021 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by 9fingers 9fingers wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

We are constantly reminded that football is "all about opinions". But for a small very vocal minority on here even mild criticism of Kenny's record leads to a pile-on, accusations of personal vendettas etc etc. Ex-players opinions are dismissed, unless of course they support Kenny. Finishing 4th in this competition is failure, unless the word failure has lost all its meaning. I think (hope) we will finish 3rd, that reflects our current level. 

But what do you want? 
What are your expectations? 
Have you seen any improvement in how we play now to 2-3 years ago? 

These are the questions none of you have answered. 

Improvement in how we play from 2-3 years ago is relative. We are playing easier on the eye football yet 2 years ago we were one goal from automatic qualification to the Euros in a group containing Denmark and Switzerland. My expectations at the beginning of the campaign was to be pushing for a play off spot. I want to qualify for tournaments. Has Kenny shown enough? Not wholly convinced he has to be honest. But more time needed.


Any consideration for the amount of players we've been missing, no? Do you think we have such strength & depth that regularly missing 12-15 players shouldn't hurt us and that "we should be beating them anyway"?

Mick, MON, Trap weren't constantly missing half their squads.

Pretty important context there, don't you think?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stickittotheman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2021 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by Greenie50 Greenie50 wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by 9fingers 9fingers wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

We are constantly reminded that football is "all about opinions". But for a small very vocal minority on here even mild criticism of Kenny's record leads to a pile-on, accusations of personal vendettas etc etc. Ex-players opinions are dismissed, unless of course they support Kenny. Finishing 4th in this competition is failure, unless the word failure has lost all its meaning. I think (hope) we will finish 3rd, that reflects our current level. 

But what do you want? 
What are your expectations? 
Have you seen any improvement in how we play now to 2-3 years ago? 

These are the questions none of you have answered. 

Improvement in how we play from 2-3 years ago is relative. We are playing easier on the eye football yet 2 years ago we were one goal from automatic qualification to the Euros in a group containing Denmark and Switzerland. My expectations at the beginning of the campaign was to be pushing for a play off spot. I want to qualify for tournaments. Has Kenny shown enough? Not wholly convinced he has to be honest. But more time needed.


Any consideration for the amount of players we've been missing, no? Do you think we have such strength & depth that regularly missing 12-15 players shouldn't hurt us and that "we should be beating them anyway"?

Mick, MON, Trap weren't constantly missing half their squads.

Pretty important context there, don't you think?

It is a factor. However lots of teams have been understrength when we have played them due to covid particularly. Your post makes it sound like we are the only ones to have suffered this.
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote E2016 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2021 at 12:26pm
He is 'constantly' missing half his squad now? That's a new one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heimatklange Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2021 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Those who are so voiciferous in defending SK....would you happy to give him a contract until 2026 ? I assume the majority will say No as they would have an expectation of improved results sooner rather than later. So, at what stage do they believe a change is necessary ? Are they prepared to write off the 2022 NL as well? Or even Euro 2024 ? Are they happy to accept nice possession based football with no cutting edge and non qualification ? The alternative is a more direct approach which not as pretty on the eye but has proven to get better results.
Personally I would give him a 10 year contract.

The transformation that Irish soccer needs isn't going to be achieved in 2 or 4 years. A complete shift in the mindset of style and development of players is going to take much longer. I think Kenny has done an incredible job in 2 years and while a lot has been done a lot more remains to do. Kenny's nurturing and development of the likes of Bazunu, Omobamidele, Molumby, Parrott, Idah, Knight, Connolly has given us the spine of the future team. Much more time is going to be needed to find more players to supplement these lads.

Euro 2024 might come a little early for his project and this is why I think a 10 year contract is preferable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimmy Raggatip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2021 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Oh ya hoof it long again and we will be banging in the goals. We have the same forwards no matter how we play. We have been doung ok recently with chances created. Were working on the goals part but we cannot create a ready made goal scorer if he aint there yet.

Ffs why are you obsessed with the hoof it long. As if that is the only alternative. Direct play doesn't necessarily mean hoof ball.

Obsessed? What are you on about

Every time someone mentions an alternative you immediately start with the hoof ball. That of course implieds just launching the ball aimlessly upfield akin to MON's Nations league campaign which was hoof ball- utterly rudderless. Direct football can be effective with the right tactics and when played with organisation.


how many genuinely top teams, or even second rung teams play this way? At club and international level
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2021 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by Heimatklange Heimatklange wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Those who are so voiciferous in defending SK....would you happy to give him a contract until 2026 ? I assume the majority will say No as they would have an expectation of improved results sooner rather than later. So, at what stage do they believe a change is necessary ? Are they prepared to write off the 2022 NL as well? Or even Euro 2024 ? Are they happy to accept nice possession based football with no cutting edge and non qualification ? The alternative is a more direct approach which not as pretty on the eye but has proven to get better results.
Personally I would give him a 10 year contract.

The transformation that Irish soccer needs isn't going to be achieved in 2 or 4 years. A complete shift in the mindset of style and development of players is going to take much longer. I think Kenny has done an incredible job in 2 years and while a lot has been done a lot more remains to do. Kenny's nurturing and development of the likes of Bazunu, Omobamidele, Molumby, Parrott, Idah, Knight, Connolly has given us the spine of the future team. Much more time is going to be needed to find more players to supplement these lads.

Euro 2024 might come a little early for his project and this is why I think a 10 year contract is preferable.
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