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John Nice 
Jack Charlton
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 Posted: 22 Sep 2021 at 12:59pm |
 Devrozex wrote:
He scored a 6 in the two sets of player ratings I was able to find on the game so didn't seem to have the mare a couple of posters are suggesting he did:• Adam Idah 6 Lost the argument with Tzolis it appeared for the penalty. Powerful running in the first half but unable to link up with the Greek. Tame sidefooter at Kelleher from Giannoulis’ cut back. When the penalty rebound veered in his direction tried a goalbound lash blocked by Gomez. Cut inside his marker in the 83rd minute but his right footed effort lacked the power to trouble Kelleher. Adam Idah (ST) - 6/10 - Intelligent with his movement but wasn't able to muster a really clear-cut opportunity. Starved of service and had to get himself into the game. |
Both those summaries pretty much reflect my feeling on his performance. Youd think he played like a pub player according to some on here - Ridiculous criticism and all too frequent from Irish fans for several players including Hendrick and Connolly. Idah and Connolly are 20 and 21 respectively ffs, they are making strides.
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John Nice
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 22 Sep 2021 at 1:01pm |
Left foot wrote:
Cmon John Nice, to suggest that parrott has done nothing to warrant an ireland start and idah has is fantasy stuff. Neither have really earned a squad inclusion at this point but desperate times call for desperate measures. |
I give up!
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DeclanDaly
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Posted: 22 Sep 2021 at 1:05pm |
pfft got to wonder how people call themselves fans and do nothing but trash our players
Yeah, I’m done with this forum. The mods doing a great job but the overall quality of posters has gone way down
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You asked if I'd be anyone from history, fact or fiction, dead or alive:
I said "I'd be Tony Cascarino, circa 1995"
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J89
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Posted: 22 Sep 2021 at 1:27pm |
Left foot wrote:
Cmon John Nice, to suggest that parrott has done nothing to warrant an ireland start and idah has is fantasy stuff. Neither have really earned a squad inclusion at this point but desperate times call for desperate measures. |
Especially when you gotta include last season just so Idah would have any goal contributions. Neither should really be starting for Ireland, but that's a whole different discussion on the state of our playing pool. But Parrott has done more this season to justify his inclusion to the squad over Idah.
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Stickittotheman
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Posted: 22 Sep 2021 at 1:58pm |
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What exactly is so galling about pointing out the Idah needs game time and should probably not be starting for us if we have everyone available?
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Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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ShamtheRam
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Posted: 22 Sep 2021 at 2:51pm |
John Nice wrote:
J89 wrote:
Left foot wrote:
J89 wrote:
ShamtheRam wrote:
John Nice wrote:
very diappointing commentary in this thread. zero acknowledgement that he was up against two world class cbs. konate will out muscle most pl strikers this season. Adam worked really hard, made some good runs which weren't picked out and got into 2 great scoring positions. it's not a bit of wonder he's snatching at chances given this sh*t, connolly gets the same sh*t. go ahead and big up parrot, Obafemi, Scully, parrot and collins now until they actually play in a big game, then slate them too, rinse and repeat. have a word with yourselves, these lads need support. I'd an and connolly are our 2 best prospects, it's early days, both have good potential. I'd prefer to be starting them oer collins and maguire |
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World class is definitely hyperbole, but Konate and Gomez are two good CBs who'll be top class CBs for years to come but have had their issues with injuries over the last couple of seasons. |
Very good CBs yes, but Idah's control was poor. Got caught cheaply in possession a few times. His hold up play was basic.
I dont think the CB pairing were in any trouble and were pretty comfortable the whole night. It could have been me in defence for that game.
Idah had a poor game, but let's not get carried away and write him off. He hasn't played games regularly and that's what he needs to do.
I think league1 would be a good loan in January simply because he's not even been tested in the championship. If he's too good for league1 he'll soon bounce up a level. |
Agree that he needs to move on loan in January, and League One for half a season is more beneficial than picking splinters from his hole. Parrott might be in League One but he's showing more to deserve a start for the senior team than Idah, and Norwich only have two games between now and the next international. Can't see Idah getting game time if Pukki and Sargent are fit.
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Since the beginning of the 2020/21 season - Parrott has had 5 goal involvements (4 goals, 1 assist in roughly 2,500 minutes of senior League football, mainly L1, some championship where he managed 0 in 11 appearances). He was anonymous during the Azerbaijan game. Idah in the same period has had 4 goal involvements (3 goals, 1 assist) in 464 minutes of League Football (PL and CH), he was arguably MotM away to Portugal and has featured in 6 of Norwich's 7 games this season. He's grand where he is for now as long as he continues to be involved, Pukki's form isnt great and he's not the player he was 2 seasons ago. If Idah falls out of the first team squad and isnt consistently making the bench come Christmas then maybe a loan would suit and I'm sure there would be Championship clubs showing an interest.
Parrott has absolutely done nothing to warrant a starting place for Ireland ahead of Idah.
Our next 4 international fixtures come in October and November and are effectively dead rubbers (bar for Kenny trying to save his job), replacing Idah with Collins who will be 31 in December (and hasnt had a goal or an assist this season) would be a retrograde step and contradict everything Kenny has said publicly about prepping these lads for Euro 24. Parrott should start the friendly vs Qatar. As far as I can see, these 3 are our only viable hold up #9 options.
Robinson and Connolly should start either side of Idah in the two "must win games for Kenny". Scully deserves a call up and a chance maybe vs Qatar, but if not certainly in next March's friendlies. Obafemi has played just 218 minutes of senior football since June 2020, maybe he can work his way back in, but he has shown nothing to suggest he "should" be included yet. Long is 35 in January and hasnt played a minute of football this season. his last international goal was 5 years ago (he has played for us at least 18 times since). Shane has been a great servant and if qualification was at stake, you might have him on the bench, because he works defenders, but tbh he forgot how to put the ball in the net about 5 years ago now. Will Keane has been doing ok at L1 level for a while (no better than Scully and Curtis), but he's 28 with a very poor history of injuries (only 120 odd senior games played), if Kenny selected him it would only be a rod for his own back, it's not going to happen.
Worth pointing out also that Didzy (33), every ones favourite retiree managed 1 goal in 14 for Ireland, while Robinson (26) (probably the best we have currently tbf) has managed 1 in 20.
Hogan (29) has 0 in 8, Maguire (27) has 1 in 12 for Ireland. None are ripping up trees at club level or suggesting they have improved significantly. Hogan has 10 goals in 2500 minutes since the start of the 20/21 season and has lost his place in the team to Deeney, Maguire has 5 goals and 4 assists in 2,100 minutes over the same period and is an irregular starter. If we are serious about building for the future, I see no point in selecting either for dead rubbers. We can revisit where everyone is at in advance of the Nations League.
Meanwhile, post WC 22, I see it like this hopefully going forward, maybe one of the older lads can enjoy a serious uptick in form and get in the mix also, maybe one of the younger lads like Ferguson can continue to progress.
RF - Robinson/Obafemi ST - Idah/Parrott LF - Connolly/Scully |
Serious SirAlex vibes off this post 
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irishmufc
Robbie Keane
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Posted: 22 Sep 2021 at 3:04pm |
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I don't remember Sir Alex weighing in much on the national team threads tbh.
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Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
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You Tell Me
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Posted: 22 Sep 2021 at 10:18pm |
Bandwagon wrote:
You Tell Me wrote:
Of course for all we know McGoldrick may well have stuck around until the end of this campaign had a different manager been in charge, he seemed to make tracks for the exit fairly quickly once Kenny came on the scene. |
Have you ever heard such rubbish 
He retired after the playoff because we'd failed to qualify. He'd have bowed out after the tournament had we qualified.
Hes 33 going 34 now, injury prone and cited as saying he decided to retire to recover during international breaks and spend more time with his family.
By the time World Cup 2022 kicks off he'll be 35.
Look at the demise of players like keane, Walters, Long, Murphy and so on between the ages of 31-33 and then 34-36. They'd very little to offer by the end and hes struggling now in the Championship.
What use would he have been for this campaign anyway? Say we play him in all the games. We still fail qualify. Then what? Euro 2024 qualifiers come around and Idah, Parrott and Connolly have no games or experience under their belts.
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Perhaps. Or perhaps, if we had a serious manager in charge, he might have been convinced to stay on. We'll never know for sure.
Certainly the likes of Idah could have learned a lot from him in terms of holding the ball up and bringing others into the game in good attacking positions if he had been retained. He has never been a prolific scorer but his all round game justified his inclusion and he would have had plenty to offer the group both on and off the field in the last year had he been around.
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John Nice
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Posted: 22 Sep 2021 at 10:23pm |
You Tell Me wrote:
Bandwagon wrote:
You Tell Me wrote:
Of course for all we know McGoldrick may well have stuck around until the end of this campaign had a different manager been in charge, he seemed to make tracks for the exit fairly quickly once Kenny came on the scene. |
Have you ever heard such rubbish
He retired after the playoff because we'd failed to qualify. He'd have bowed out after the tournament had we qualified.
Hes 33 going 34 now, injury prone and cited as saying he decided to retire to recover during international breaks and spend more time with his family.
By the time World Cup 2022 kicks off he'll be 35.
Look at the demise of players like keane, Walters, Long, Murphy and so on between the ages of 31-33 and then 34-36. They'd very little to offer by the end and hes struggling now in the Championship.
What use would he have been for this campaign anyway? Say we play him in all the games. We still fail qualify. Then what? Euro 2024 qualifiers come around and Idah, Parrott and Connolly have no games or experience under their belts.
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Perhaps. Or perhaps, if we had a serious manager in charge, he might have been convinced to stay on. We'll never know for sure.
Certainly the likes of Idah could have learned a lot from him in terms of holding the ball up and bringing others into the game in good attacking positions if he had been retained. He has never been a prolific scorer but his all round game justified his inclusion and he would have had plenty to offer the group both on and off the field in the last year had he been around. |
And you are going to speculate regardless of any evidence to suggest Didzy retired because of Kenny 
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JUICEBOMB
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Posted: 22 Sep 2021 at 10:27pm |
DeclanDaly wrote:
pfft got to wonder how people call themselves fans and do nothing but trash our players
Yeah, I’m done with this forum. The mods doing a great job but the overall quality of posters has gone way down |
Close the door on the way out aswell please......
Edited by JUICEBOMB - 22 Sep 2021 at 10:27pm
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You Tell Me
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Posted: 22 Sep 2021 at 10:33pm |
John Nice wrote:
You Tell Me wrote:
Bandwagon wrote:
You Tell Me wrote:
Of course for all we know McGoldrick may well have stuck around until the end of this campaign had a different manager been in charge, he seemed to make tracks for the exit fairly quickly once Kenny came on the scene. |
Have you ever heard such rubbish
He retired after the playoff because we'd failed to qualify. He'd have bowed out after the tournament had we qualified.
Hes 33 going 34 now, injury prone and cited as saying he decided to retire to recover during international breaks and spend more time with his family.
By the time World Cup 2022 kicks off he'll be 35.
Look at the demise of players like keane, Walters, Long, Murphy and so on between the ages of 31-33 and then 34-36. They'd very little to offer by the end and hes struggling now in the Championship.
What use would he have been for this campaign anyway? Say we play him in all the games. We still fail qualify. Then what? Euro 2024 qualifiers come around and Idah, Parrott and Connolly have no games or experience under their belts.
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Perhaps. Or perhaps, if we had a serious manager in charge, he might have been convinced to stay on. We'll never know for sure.
Certainly the likes of Idah could have learned a lot from him in terms of holding the ball up and bringing others into the game in good attacking positions if he had been retained. He has never been a prolific scorer but his all round game justified his inclusion and he would have had plenty to offer the group both on and off the field in the last year had he been around. |
And you are going to speculate regardless of any evidence to suggest Didzy retired because of Kenny |
If posts on the forum were limited to only the discussion of undisputed facts it would be a very quiet place. Of course there's scope to speculate, especially given Kenny's overall record in terms of his dealings with players who are the wrong side of 30 since he came into the job.
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shakeyshamrock
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Posted: 22 Sep 2021 at 10:36pm |
yes. I will also speculate that some of the older players were drinking the blood of the young ones and Kenny had no choice but to force them into retirement.
It might be completely made up, but it’s just speculation and doing no harm. Just makes the forum more interesting…. For someone or other
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AbuAbu
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Posted: 23 Sep 2021 at 10:05am |
Stickittotheman wrote:
What exactly is so galling about pointing out the Idah needs game time and should probably not be starting for us if we have everyone available? |
The fact that posters seem to look at players in isolation rather than versus the potential alternative ....... which is the reality of the situation
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Left foot
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Posted: 23 Sep 2021 at 10:22am |
AbuAbu wrote:
Stickittotheman wrote:
What exactly is so galling about pointing out the Idah needs game time and should probably not be starting for us if we have everyone available? |
The fact that posters seem to look at players in isolation rather than versus the potential alternative ....... which is the reality of the situation |
Simply based on the fact that they are playing football I would have Scully and Parrott ahead of Idah.
Idah has improved as he's played for ireland, no doubt. But he hasn't been proven at any level of football. Not premier league, not Championship, not league 1. He's sitting on the bench.
In contrast if you said prestons sean maguire, (who is mostly on the bench now) I would say at least he's proved he can score goals at championship level in the past and could maybe regain that form.
Idah has no such benchmark. He's unproven at any level.
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John Nice
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Posted: 23 Sep 2021 at 12:24pm |
Left foot wrote:
AbuAbu wrote:
Stickittotheman wrote:
What exactly is so galling about pointing out the Idah needs game time and should probably not be starting for us if we have everyone available? |
The fact that posters seem to look at players in isolation rather than versus the potential alternative ....... which is the reality of the situation |
Simply based on the fact that they are playing football I would have Scully and Parrott ahead of Idah.
Idah has improved as he's played for ireland, no doubt. But he hasn't been proven at any level of football. Not premier league, not Championship, not league 1. He's sitting on the bench.
In contrast if you said prestons sean maguire, (who is mostly on the bench now) I would say at least he's proved he can score goals at championship level in the past and could maybe regain that form.
Idah has no such benchmark. He's unproven at any level. |
Scully I'll give you, he has proven now since the beginning of the 2020/21 season that he is capable of scoring goals regularly at League One level with 14 goals & 5 assists in 48 games (2,700 mins) in 20/21 and 5 goals & 3 assists in 9 games (800 minutes) in 21/22. This is L1, FAC & EFL Cup only. It excludes EFL Trophy games which would bump his figures up even further. He has a goal involvement ratio of 1 per 130 odd minutes which is very good and it is based on a large sample size. He deserves a chance, but I cant see Kenny sticking him straight in to a must win (for Kenny) game on the back of it, nor would I expect or call for Kenny to do so mid campaign. It is still League One. He should probably be included in the squad and maybe given a run vs Qatar, if not he should certainly be given his chance in the March friendlies.
Parrott however, in the same period - 2020/21, had 2 goals 0 assists in 31 games (1,932 minutes, 601 of which came in the Championship, where he failed to register a single goal or assist) and has 2 goals and 1 assist this season in 7 games (600 minutes) which is admittedly a better start and MAYBE he will go on this season to register Scully like figures - that's what he needs to do. Btw the EFL Trophy games wouldn't bump Parrott's figures at all, as he has failed to score/assist in any. To date he has a goal involvement ratio of 1 per roughly 500 minutes over the last 2 seasons. That does not suggest he is proven or anywhere close, 1 goal involvement every 5 and a half games and he probably has played in more advanced positions than Scully over the period. I like Troy and think he can develop into a fine player, but he's still a long way off. Hopefully he can continue his good (not stellar by any means) start to the season and push on. To suggest he should be starting ahead of Idah is a stretch. He should probably be given a chance in the Idah role vs Qatar to see how he shapes up.
Idah had a bad injury in the 2020/21 season which kept him out for the guts of 6 months, however he registered 3 goals and 1 assist in 17 games (just 325 minutes) in the Championship. He has featured in 6 (of 7) Norwich games this season in the PL/EFL Cup (139 minutes) and has failed to register a goal/assist. Idah's goal involvement ratio playing at a higher level than both Scully and Parrott is 1 per 116 minutes. Obviously this is a much smaller sample size, so it's not a straightforward comparison, but to suggest Parrott is now proven and Idah is unproven at this stage is plain wrong. Idah may not have scored/assisted in his international games to date, but I think he has shown enough to demonstrate that he can lead the line, particularly in the Portugal game. We absolutely need a good hold up player due to our very obvious limitation in midfield and Idah looks (currently) like the best man for that job. One could make an argument for Collins, but given qualification is gone and we are supposedly building for the future, I would much prefer to see Idah start the Azerbaijan game ahead of him.
Thats my tuppence worth. I agree with the general consensus that we are selcting from a pretty average group of attackers, but clearly in Connolly, Idah, Scully, Obafemi and Parrott, we have 5 very decent prospects whpo will continue to improve and those along with the 26yo Robinson are probably where we should be concentrating our efforts at this stage. Collins (30) Hogan (29) and Maguire (27) have shown that they are ok Championship level players, no more than that - one can argue that makes them better than the young lads currently, but I dont think we are going to see huge improvement in any of them at this stage, so personally I would prefer to invest in the future, particularly given that our qualification hopes are gone. We can re-assess pre the June 22 Nations League campaign and see where everyone is at that stage, but for the upcoming internationals - Connolly and Robinson to the left and right respectively of Idah in the Azer and Lux games looks the best bet to me. Parrott should get a chance in the Idah role vs Qatar (he looked completely lost on the right of the 3 with Idah in the last Azerbaijan game) and possibly Scully (in the Connolly role) also. Obafemi has only managed 234 minutes of football since the beginning of the 2020/21 season (0 goals/assists), so for me he doesn't come into the reckoning at this stage, hopefully he kicks on for Swansea now after his big move and forces his way back in to the picture.
For the record Shane Long has barely played this season (Kenny did inlcude him in the last squad btw) and he failed to register a goal/assist in 14 games last season. He hasnt scored an international goal since 2016 (18 caps since) and in 88 internationals despite scoring 17 (1 in 5), he only registered 5 goals in competitive games, albeit some were very memorable He is 34 now, 35 in January, so I cant see Kenny selecting him and again I would not be encouraging him to do so, given our qualification hopes are gone.
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John Nice
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Posted: 23 Sep 2021 at 1:28pm |
Mr Brick wrote:
Very long posts need to justify being very long posts. |
Thanks for that, I'll stick to "he should go on loan, so he should" in future!
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Posted: 23 Sep 2021 at 1:37pm |
Loving the posts, John 
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Posted: 23 Sep 2021 at 2:22pm |
John Nice wrote:
Left foot wrote:
AbuAbu wrote:
Stickittotheman wrote:
What exactly is so galling about pointing out the Idah needs game time and should probably not be starting for us if we have everyone available? |
The fact that posters seem to look at players in isolation rather than versus the potential alternative ....... which is the reality of the situation |
Simply based on the fact that they are playing football I would have Scully and Parrott ahead of Idah.
Idah has improved as he's played for ireland, no doubt. But he hasn't been proven at any level of football. Not premier league, not Championship, not league 1. He's sitting on the bench.
In contrast if you said prestons sean maguire, (who is mostly on the bench now) I would say at least he's proved he can score goals at championship level in the past and could maybe regain that form.
Idah has no such benchmark. He's unproven at any level. |
Scully I'll give you, he has proven now since the beginning of the 2020/21 season that he is capable of scoring goals regularly at League One level with 14 goals & 5 assists in 48 games (2,700 mins) in 20/21 and 5 goals & 3 assists in 9 games (800 minutes) in 21/22. This is L1, FAC & EFL Cup only. It excludes EFL Trophy games which would bump his figures up even further. He has a goal involvement ratio of 1 per 130 odd minutes which is very good and it is based on a large sample size. He deserves a chance, but I cant see Kenny sticking him straight in to a must win (for Kenny) game on the back of it, nor would I expect or call for Kenny to do so mid campaign. It is still League One. He should probably be included in the squad and maybe given a run vs Qatar, if not he should certainly be given his chance in the March friendlies.
Parrott however, in the same period - 2020/21, had 2 goals 0 assists in 31 games (1,932 minutes, 601 of which came in the Championship, where he failed to register a single goal or assist) and has 2 goals and 1 assist this season in 7 games (600 minutes) which is admittedly a better start and MAYBE he will go on this season to register Scully like figures - that's what he needs to do. Btw the EFL Trophy games wouldn't bump Parrott's figures at all, as he has failed to score/assist in any. To date he has a goal involvement ratio of 1 per roughly 500 minutes over the last 2 seasons. That does not suggest he is proven or anywhere close, 1 goal involvement every 5 and a half games and he probably has played in more advanced positions than Scully over the period. I like Troy and think he can develop into a fine player, but he's still a long way off. Hopefully he can continue his good (not stellar by any means) start to the season and push on. To suggest he should be starting ahead of Idah is a stretch. He should probably be given a chance in the Idah role vs Qatar to see how he shapes up.
Idah had a bad injury in the 2020/21 season which kept him out for the guts of 6 months, however he registered 3 goals and 1 assist in 17 games (just 325 minutes) in the Championship. He has featured in 6 (of 7) Norwich games this season in the PL/EFL Cup (139 minutes) and has failed to register a goal/assist. Idah's goal involvement ratio playing at a higher level than both Scully and Parrott is 1 per 116 minutes. Obviously this is a much smaller sample size, so it's not a straightforward comparison, but to suggest Parrott is now proven and Idah is unproven at this stage is plain wrong. Idah may not have scored/assisted in his international games to date, but I think he has shown enough to demonstrate that he can lead the line, particularly in the Portugal game. We absolutely need a good hold up player due to our very obvious limitation in midfield and Idah looks (currently) like the best man for that job. One could make an argument for Collins, but given qualification is gone and we are supposedly building for the future, I would much prefer to see Idah start the Azerbaijan game ahead of him.
Thats my tuppence worth. I agree with the general consensus that we are selcting from a pretty average group of attackers, but clearly in Connolly, Idah, Scully, Obafemi and Parrott, we have 5 very decent prospects whpo will continue to improve and those along with the 26yo Robinson are probably where we should be concentrating our efforts at this stage. Collins (30) Hogan (29) and Maguire (27) have shown that they are ok Championship level players, no more than that - one can argue that makes them better than the young lads currently, but I dont think we are going to see huge improvement in any of them at this stage, so personally I would prefer to invest in the future, particularly given that our qualification hopes are gone. We can re-assess pre the June 22 Nations League campaign and see where everyone is at that stage, but for the upcoming internationals - Connolly and Robinson to the left and right respectively of Idah in the Azer and Lux games looks the best bet to me. Parrott should get a chance in the Idah role vs Qatar (he looked completely lost on the right of the 3 with Idah in the last Azerbaijan game) and possibly Scully (in the Connolly role) also. Obafemi has only managed 234 minutes of football since the beginning of the 2020/21 season (0 goals/assists), so for me he doesn't come into the reckoning at this stage, hopefully he kicks on for Swansea now after his big move and forces his way back in to the picture.
For the record Shane Long has barely played this season (Kenny did inlcude him in the last squad btw) and he failed to register a goal/assist in 14 games last season. He hasnt scored an international goal since 2016 (18 caps since) and in 88 internationals despite scoring 17 (1 in 5), he only registered 5 goals in competitive games, albeit some were very memorable He is 34 now, 35 in January, so I cant see Kenny selecting him and again I would not be encouraging him to do so, given our qualification hopes are gone.
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Good post John but really some of the detail is wood for the trees. Idah playing 137 minutes so far this season for example when 90mins were against the Liverpool kids and he did very little.
Stating that parrott is proven and idah is not proven? Who said either were proven? I stated that Parrott is playing. So that's intentionally misleading on your part.
I would say that parrot and idah are pretty much square where they are in terms of development with parrott recently taking the advantage of actually playing mens football albeit both are unproven but one is playing.
For some you think idah is somehow further ahead. I'm not sure I share that opinion despite your detailed analysis.
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