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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2020 at 4:18pm
Having seen numerous tweets from 'Kenny's Kids' I find that his analysis of of Irish players performances in the main leaves a lot to be desired at times.

That's not me hoping he starts becoming extremely pessimistic or cynical, but there has to be a balance.

Troy's move to Millwall has pro's and con's like any move.

Pro's - He looks like he will start most weeks or at least be brought on and it's great experience for him to be playing at a decent level week in week out as opposed to playing u23 football.

Con's - Millwall play a fairly poor and basic brand of football, whereby it's as much about grit and working hard as opposed to trying to win games with real quality.

In an ideal world he would be playing at Brentford, Swansea, Norwich, Bournemouth etc where there is a huge emphasis put on the technical side of the game. You could argue that these are teams are all likely to create more clear cut chances than the Millwalls of this world also.

All in all, given his age it's fantastic for the lad to be seeing game time which again is the most important thing.


Edited by Green Devil - 03 Dec 2020 at 4:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doherty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2020 at 5:05pm
They have big Matt Smith at Millwall who i would like to see Troy play in a 2 with. I see the Millwall fans would not mind seeing that either. Playing regularly will no doubt bring him on. Getting a few goals here and there though will be vital for his confidence. Worst case scenario he goes back to Spurs and failed to score. Lets hope that does not happen. I think if he got 5 goals till the end of the season that would be a decent return. Anything above that would be a bonus.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevin100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2020 at 6:51pm
Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Having seen numerous tweets from 'Kenny's Kids' I find that his analysis of of Irish players performances in the main leaves a lot to be desired at times.

That's not me hoping he starts becoming extremely pessimistic or cynical, but there has to be a balance.

Troy's move to Millwall has pro's and con's like any move.

Pro's - He looks like he will start most weeks or at least be brought on and it's great experience for him to be playing at a decent level week in week out as opposed to playing u23 football.

Con's - Millwall play a fairly poor and basic brand of football, whereby it's as much about grit and working hard as opposed to trying to win games with real quality.

In an ideal world he would be playing at Brentford, Swansea, Norwich, Bournemouth etc where there is a huge emphasis put on the technical side of the game. You could argue that these are teams are all likely to create more clear cut chances than the Millwalls of this world also.

All in all, given his age it's fantastic for the lad to be seeing game time which again is the most important thing.
 

When I mentioned a high profile Irish football account saying he played some real high quality stuff that’s the one I was on about I just didn’t want to mention names etc when he might not on here to debate/defend himself. 

What he said just contradicted the general view on here. Millwall are basic but his first game without repeating myself he had to do a lot of dirty work/holding the ball up and he did it well. If he’s stuck doing that its still a good education for him.

As for goals he’s not gonna score a hatful for them but a few would be nice just to get him rolling. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2020 at 7:00pm
Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

In an ideal world he would be playing at Brentford, Swansea, Norwich, Bournemouth etc where there is a huge emphasis put on the technical side of the game.

Brentford don't do loanees - afaik, none has played so much as a minute for them in at least 3 years*.

The reasoning is that if they're not good enough, they don't want them (obv) and if they are, they don't see why they should develop other teams' players for them.

By contrast, many other Championship sides are full of loanees, inc Swansea (5).


* - They have signed one  "loanee" this season, Ghoddos, but that's a technicality - they expect to sign him permanently for next season.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Four-Four-Two Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2020 at 7:30pm
seems a stupidly self limited policy if true. signing a loan player isn't about "developing another teams player" for the team making a signing, it is about improving your chances of winning in the here and now and maybe finally get out of the championship for a team such as brentford. there are loads of players in the loan market who could help them do that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zinedine Kilbane 110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2020 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

In an ideal world he would be playing at Brentford, Swansea, Norwich, Bournemouth etc where there is a huge emphasis put on the technical side of the game.

Brentford don't do loanees - afaik, none has played so much as a minute for them in at least 3 years*.

The reasoning is that if they're not good enough, they don't want them (obv) and if they are, they don't see why they should develop other teams' players for them.

By contrast, many other Championship sides are full of loanees, inc Swansea (5).


* - They have signed one  "loanee" this season, Ghoddos, but that's a technicality - they expect to sign him permanently for next season.

Wiki says they have loaned in 3 players this season.

They have scrapped their youth academy and focus on their B team which is made up of young players 17-21. 

I’m sure they would take loan players in who would improve the first team but I don’t think they would take in loan players as squad fillers. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote avfc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2020 at 9:53pm
Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

In an ideal world he would be playing at Brentford, Swansea, Norwich, Bournemouth etc where there is a huge emphasis put on the technical side of the game.

Brentford don't do loanees - afaik, none has played so much as a minute for them in at least 3 years*.

The reasoning is that if they're not good enough, they don't want them (obv) and if they are, they don't see why they should develop other teams' players for them.

By contrast, many other Championship sides are full of loanees, inc Swansea (5).


* - They have signed one  "loanee" this season, Ghoddos, but that's a technicality - they expect to sign him permanently for next season.

Wiki says they have loaned in 3 players this season.

They have scrapped their youth academy and focus on their B team which is made up of young players 17-21. 

I’m sure they would take loan players in who would improve the first team but I don’t think they would take in loan players as squad fillers. 

Having a good B team with younger player makes more sense than youth academies full of duds imho
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zinedine Kilbane 110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2020 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by avfc avfc wrote:

Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

In an ideal world he would be playing at Brentford, Swansea, Norwich, Bournemouth etc where there is a huge emphasis put on the technical side of the game.

Brentford don't do loanees - afaik, none has played so much as a minute for them in at least 3 years*.

The reasoning is that if they're not good enough, they don't want them (obv) and if they are, they don't see why they should develop other teams' players for them.

By contrast, many other Championship sides are full of loanees, inc Swansea (5).


* - They have signed one  "loanee" this season, Ghoddos, but that's a technicality - they expect to sign him permanently for next season.

Wiki says they have loaned in 3 players this season.

They have scrapped their youth academy and focus on their B team which is made up of young players 17-21. 

I’m sure they would take loan players in who would improve the first team but I don’t think they would take in loan players as squad fillers. 

Having a good B team with younger player makes more sense than youth academies full of duds imho

Yeah I think it makes sense for smaller clubs in big cities. Brentford can’t compete with Chelsea / Spurs and Arsenal.
You either need to have huge academies with excellent facilities / coaches to attract the best or else you are spending resources in hope rather than a proven model. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2020 at 11:54pm
Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

In an ideal world he would be playing at Brentford, Swansea, Norwich, Bournemouth etc where there is a huge emphasis put on the technical side of the game.

Brentford don't do loanees - afaik, none has played so much as a minute for them in at least 3 years*.

Wiki says they have loaned in 3 players this season.

Valgeirsson and Haygarth are two 18 x y.o's who've signed for the "B" team, with the latter only until January i.e. effectively an extended trial. Neither has been included in the 29 man 1st Team Squad registered with the EFL, so aren't even allowed to play for them, never mind close to it.
As for the other one, Ghoddos, there was a technical problem preventing a permanent contract, so this loan was mere expedience:

Saman Ghoddos is a Brentford player after completing his move from Amiens SC earlier today, Monday 21 September. The 27-year-old attacker joins on a one-year loan deal with a subsequent option for a two-year permanent deal, subject to international clearance.

Brentford FC Head Coach, Thomas Frank, said: “We have been following Saman for 16 months now and it is great to make him a Brentford player."

https://www.brentfordfc.com/news/2020/september/saman-ghoddos-signs-for-brentford/


Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

I’m sure they would take loan players in who would improve the first team but I don’t think they would take in loan players as squad fillers.

They signed two loanees (one short term) in season 2016/17, just as the 'B' Team was being set up. They've not signed any since then, despite having used the loan system frequently and successfully prior to 2016 (Toral, Pritchard, Long, Savile, Trotta, Harris, McAleny etc)




Edited by Territorial - 03 Dec 2020 at 11:56pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2020 at 12:07am
Originally posted by Four-Four-Two Four-Four-Two wrote:

seems a stupidly self limited policy if true. signing a loan player isn't about "developing another teams player" for the team making a signing, it is about improving your chances of winning in the here and now and maybe finally get out of the championship for a team such as brentford. there are loads of players in the loan market who could help them do that

So they get promoted by using players who then have to go back to their parent club, only to find they come straight back down again without them?

If there's one lesson to be learned from BFC, it's that they plan long-term, always thinking two or three steps ahead.

It's why they have consistently been a top six team in the Championship with a bottom six budget.

Originally posted by Four-Four-Two Four-Four-Two wrote:

there are loads of players in the loan market who could help them do that
For domestic signings, BFC prefer to search for late developers and underrated youngsters who have been discarded prematurely by the big Academies. They then give them a second chance with their B team, which has been very productive in developing players for the 1st XI, while others who've not quite made it with them have managed to find a club in a lower league (or overseas).

This, too, is part of their long term thinking.


Edited by Territorial - 04 Dec 2020 at 12:08am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2020 at 12:19am
Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by avfc avfc wrote:

Having a good B team with younger player makes more sense than youth academies full of duds imho
Yeah I think it makes sense for smaller clubs in big cities. Brentford can’t compete with Chelsea / Spurs and Arsenal.
You either need to have huge academies with excellent facilities / coaches to attract the best or else you are spending resources in hope rather than a proven model. 

Actually, when the Academies were revamped in their present form, Brentford were one of only two League One clubs to have a second tier academy. They spent a huge amount of money on it, including linking up with a nearby college, providing them with professional facilities (gym, pitches etc) in return for their academicians getting an excellent education.

Which was very promising, until the PL bunged the EFL a load of money, in return for changing the rules over the compensation they had to pay to sign youth players.
Liverpool signed Joe Hardy and Man City Ian Poveda for £50k each (the new top limit), where previously BFC could easily have expected 10 x times that much.

So they refused to succumb to the Sunken Cost Fallacy, closed their Academy and came up with the concept of a B team. (Don't play in any league, but instead play prestige friendlies against top clubs in both UK and abroad, also cup competitions and tournaments.)

Since then, other clubs have followed their lead, eg Huddersfield Town.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Huntacha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2020 at 5:06am
Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Having seen numerous tweets from 'Kenny's Kids' I find that his analysis of of Irish players performances in the main leaves a lot to be desired at times.

That's not me hoping he starts becoming extremely pessimistic or cynical, but there has to be a balance.

Troy's move to Millwall has pro's and con's like any move.

Pro's - He looks like he will start most weeks or at least be brought on and it's great experience for him to be playing at a decent level week in week out as opposed to playing u23 football.

Con's - Millwall play a fairly poor and basic brand of football, whereby it's as much about grit and working hard as opposed to trying to win games with real quality.

In an ideal world he would be playing at Brentford, Swansea, Norwich, Bournemouth etc where there is a huge emphasis put on the technical side of the game. You could argue that these are teams are all likely to create more clear cut chances than the Millwalls of this world also.

All in all, given his age it's fantastic for the lad to be seeing game time which again is the most important thing.

He puts in a lot of effort so fair play to him but the fact that he tweets things like "Conor Hourihane makes the bench" instead of saying he's been dropped means his analysis of how players are performing should always be taken with a pinch of salt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sham157 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2020 at 6:20am
same on here, we have some team of carpenters.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2020 at 11:49am
Originally posted by Sham157 Sham157 wrote:

same on here, we have some team of carpenters.
No Chippy Bradys though
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amccarten313 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2020 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Having seen numerous tweets from 'Kenny's Kids' I find that his analysis of of Irish players performances in the main leaves a lot to be desired at times.

That's not me hoping he starts becoming extremely pessimistic or cynical, but there has to be a balance.

Troy's move to Millwall has pro's and con's like any move.

Pro's - He looks like he will start most weeks or at least be brought on and it's great experience for him to be playing at a decent level week in week out as opposed to playing u23 football.

Con's - Millwall play a fairly poor and basic brand of football, whereby it's as much about grit and working hard as opposed to trying to win games with real quality.

In an ideal world he would be playing at Brentford, Swansea, Norwich, Bournemouth etc where there is a huge emphasis put on the technical side of the game. You could argue that these are teams are all likely to create more clear cut chances than the Millwalls of this world also.

All in all, given his age it's fantastic for the lad to be seeing game time which again is the most important thing.


i like and appreciate his coverage bc it takes a lot of time and effort to trawl through the amount of material he does but i do think hes a little too biased in irish players favor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeclanDaly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2020 at 3:34pm
meh - if you don’t like it, don’t read it. Unless you pay for the patreon, not sure what you have to complain about 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2020 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by DeclanDaly DeclanDaly wrote:

meh - if you don’t like it, don’t read it. Unless you pay for the patreon, not sure what you have to complain about 

Not sure how you've come to the conclusion that by having an opinion on something = complaining?

Certain posters have used what Kenny's Kids has reported and then in turn posted on here, with the assumption that said player was unreal or excellent etc using Parrotts performance for Millwall the other night as an example. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeclanDaly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2020 at 3:54pm
fair enough 
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