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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shakeyshamrock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2022 at 10:41pm
Originally posted by Eoink21 Eoink21 wrote:

Decent performance, a promising player and a good option and worthy starter. But he really has to do better with that chance. Shane Long v Germany (in a more important game) springs to mind as one where we really needed the goal and there was a break which gave the striker a little time to think and Long tucked it away. Parrott made a bad go of that, a really bad one. 

He has all the ability and potential for the present and future and that miss was composure rather than technique in the locker so hopefully he recovers and pots chances like those forever more. 


Lost count of the amount of times Long went through on goal and missed - the finish against Germany was the outlier there
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Also worth noting in this case that just before taking the shot, Parrott had sprinted from his own box up to the other end of the pitch to support Obafemi. I did think at the time he looked like his legs were giving way, and maybe that's why the ball kind of gets left behind him and he scuffs the shot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Artie Ziff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2022 at 2:08am
Under normal times Parrott would still be with the under 21s. We really have no strikers, Idah, Connolly and Parrott need more time. Hogan, Collins and Maguire have shown they are not the answer. Obafemi if he can stay injury could be good. 

Scraping the barrel 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2022 at 3:06am
Originally posted by Artie Ziff Artie Ziff wrote:

Under normal times Parrott would still be with the under 21s. We really have no strikers, Idah, Connolly and Parrott need more time. Hogan, Collins and Maguire have shown they are not the answer. Obafemi if he can stay injury could be good. 

Scraping the barrel 
But sometimes we don't help ourselves. Against Scotland:

Championship goals this season:
Starters: Parrott + Obafemi = 1 goal
On bench: Hogan + Ogbene = 9 goals.

Our best-performed striker Hogan never made it on to the pitch when we're desperately chasing an equaliser. Doesn't make sense.



Edited by Mr Brick - 26 Sep 2022 at 4:25am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2022 at 8:03am
Originally posted by Mr Brick Mr Brick wrote:

Originally posted by Artie Ziff Artie Ziff wrote:

Under normal times Parrott would still be with the under 21s. We really have no strikers, Idah, Connolly and Parrott need more time. Hogan, Collins and Maguire have shown they are not the answer. Obafemi if he can stay injury could be good. 

Scraping the barrel 
But sometimes we don't help ourselves. Against Scotland:

Championship goals this season:
Starters: Parrott + Obafemi = 1 goal
On bench: Hogan + Ogbene = 9 goals.

Our best-performed striker Hogan never made it on to the pitch when we're desperately chasing an equaliser. Doesn't make sense.


Yes it does.  James collins went through a run when he scored a lot of
Goals.  He still shouldn’t have been within an assess roar of the squad or team as he did not have the quality for international football.  Hogan is very limited player who can score goals against poor teams.  The international manager has the right and responsibility to assess players ability close up in training and see who fits the team overall.  Not just pick those with best stats this season.  You can’t build anything using that model.  No cohesion or partnerships etc. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2022 at 8:43am
Originally posted by Mr Brick Mr Brick wrote:

Originally posted by Artie Ziff Artie Ziff wrote:

Under normal times Parrott would still be with the under 21s. We really have no strikers, Idah, Connolly and Parrott need more time. Hogan, Collins and Maguire have shown they are not the answer. Obafemi if he can stay injury could be good. 

Scraping the barrel 
But sometimes we don't help ourselves. Against Scotland:

Championship goals this season:
Starters: Parrott + Obafemi = 1 goal
On bench: Hogan + Ogbene = 9 goals.

Our best-performed striker Hogan never made it on to the pitch when we're desperately chasing an equaliser. Doesn't make sense.


In Hogan's case it does make sense. 11 caps, no goals.

I think Kenny is also going for a balance upfront. One with pace and power, one with a bit more technical ability. 
It's kind of Obafemi or Ogbene for one of the positions.
Then Parrott or Robinson or Hogan for the other.

You heard him after the game that he was very happy with Parrott. If Parrot had of scored his chance he would have been getting high praise all round for his performance. That miss and all of a sudden he had a bad game and is having a bad season. Whereas anyone watching his knows he has been good. The goals will come.


Edited by t_rAndy - 26 Sep 2022 at 8:45am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2022 at 9:15am
Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

Originally posted by Mr Brick Mr Brick wrote:

Originally posted by Artie Ziff Artie Ziff wrote:

Under normal times Parrott would still be with the under 21s. We really have no strikers, Idah, Connolly and Parrott need more time. Hogan, Collins and Maguire have shown they are not the answer. Obafemi if he can stay injury could be good. 

Scraping the barrel 
But sometimes we don't help ourselves. Against Scotland:

Championship goals this season:
Starters: Parrott + Obafemi = 1 goal
On bench: Hogan + Ogbene = 9 goals.

Our best-performed striker Hogan never made it on to the pitch when we're desperately chasing an equaliser. Doesn't make sense.


In Hogan's case it does make sense. 11 caps, no goals.

I think Kenny is also going for a balance upfront. One with pace and power, one with a bit more technical ability. 
It's kind of Obafemi or Ogbene for one of the positions.
Then Parrott or Robinson or Hogan for the other.

You heard him after the game that he was very happy with Parrott. If Parrot had of scored his chance he would have been getting high praise all round for his performance. That miss and all of a sudden he had a bad game and is having a bad season. Whereas anyone watching his knows he has been good. The goals will come.

Tbf, I think Parrott did ok in general play, but asides from the glaring miss, which has been the subject of much discussion (it was the finish of a striker low on confidence/goals), he had a chance first half to play a simple square ball to Knight and he took on a shot from a bad angle which was easily blocked (that was a really good chance). He also wasnt crisp in his hold up play. He's a really good prospect and nobody is giving up on him, but all in all, he had a poor game. That doesnt make him a poor player and hopefully he'll learn from the mistakes, but he has to do better at this level in situations like those. I do like the look of his partnership with Obafemi, they look like they are on the same wavelength when they play relatively close to one another, so thats promising going forward.

People seem to think we just have to turn up and we'll beat Armenia, I'm not sure about that, we will probably struggle to create chances again, so it is crucial that we take them when they come along. For that reason, I would start Ogbene and I'd consider Hogan early 2nd half if we still havent got the lead goal. I like Troy, but he's learning on the job out of necessity. I think if he had a few goals under his belt coming into Saturdays game, he scores that chance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2022 at 9:26am
Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

Originally posted by Mr Brick Mr Brick wrote:

Originally posted by Artie Ziff Artie Ziff wrote:

Under normal times Parrott would still be with the under 21s. We really have no strikers, Idah, Connolly and Parrott need more time. Hogan, Collins and Maguire have shown they are not the answer. Obafemi if he can stay injury could be good. 

Scraping the barrel 
But sometimes we don't help ourselves. Against Scotland:

Championship goals this season:
Starters: Parrott + Obafemi = 1 goal
On bench: Hogan + Ogbene = 9 goals.

Our best-performed striker Hogan never made it on to the pitch when we're desperately chasing an equaliser. Doesn't make sense.


In Hogan's case it does make sense. 11 caps, no goals.

I think Kenny is also going for a balance upfront. One with pace and power, one with a bit more technical ability. 
It's kind of Obafemi or Ogbene for one of the positions.
Then Parrott or Robinson or Hogan for the other.

You heard him after the game that he was very happy with Parrott. If Parrot had of scored his chance he would have been getting high praise all round for his performance. That miss and all of a sudden he had a bad game and is having a bad season. Whereas anyone watching his knows he has been good. The goals will come.

Also, I think its Obafemi, Ogbene or Hogan with one of Parrott or Robinson if we are going with a 2 up front. Hogan is not a lad who drops deep and gets involved in build up play. I would consider going with a 3 up front vs Armenia (I know it hasnt worked before but I'd like to see a 5-2-3 tried with Robinson (or Parrott, but I wouldnt start him personally) and Ogbene to the left and right respectively of a central striker, Obafemi/Hogan to share the game time in that position. Hendrick and Molumby in midfield.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2022 at 9:57am
Yes I also agree about the Parrott and Obafemi partnership. Let's not forget it produced two cracking goals vs. Scotland the last time they played together.
Again the other night they worked well and Parrott should have scored with the chance Obafemi wasted. 

I think he would be mad to give up on that straight away. I wouldn't be cursing Kenny if he did drop one of them for Ogbene but I would personally stick with the 2 if they were fit. 

Let's not also forget, we went a lot worse in the 2nd half yesterday when Obafemi and then Parrott went off the pitch. 


Edited by t_rAndy - 26 Sep 2022 at 9:58am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2022 at 10:13am
Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

Yes I also agree about the Parrott and Obafemi partnership. Let's not forget it produced two cracking goals vs. Scotland the last time they played together.
Again the other night they worked well and Parrott should have scored with the chance Obafemi wasted. 

I think he would be mad to give up on that straight away. I wouldn't be cursing Kenny if he did drop one of them for Ogbene but I would personally stick with the 2 if they were fit. 

Let's not also forget, we went a lot worse in the 2nd half yesterday when Obafemi and then Parrott went off the pitch. 

I just wouldnt trust Troy to put that one big chance away at the moment and I think we will need to take the chances we create. I also wouldnt be critical of Kenny if he does go with him again, it's a tough call. It's hard to ignore Ogbene's form this season though, he has scored 5 in 10 starts and he has scored goals for Kenny previously. I know Hogan has 5 also, but he did get 3 in one game which can sometimes skew the numbers (an outlier) and Ogbene is more dangerous in general play then Hogan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hotlips_Hoolahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2022 at 10:26am
When Nathan Collins made that ridiculous challenge on Grealish, I knew there'd be at least one mosher defending it. And surely enough now there are people saying "maybe Parrott's chance wasn't a sitter". LOL

Used to think pre madonna was uber negative about our players and the expectations around them, it drove me nuts, but bloody hell. Maybe he had a bit of a point in hindsight.


Edited by Hotlips_Hoolahan - 26 Sep 2022 at 10:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lassassinblanc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2022 at 10:45am
Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

When Nathan Collins made that ridiculous challenge on Grealish, I knew there'd be at least one mosher defending it. And surely enough now there are people saying "maybe Parrott's chance wasn't a sitter". LOL

Used to think pre madonna was uber negative about our players and the expectations around them, it drove me nuts, but bloody hell. Maybe he had a bit of a point in hindsight.

LOL I miss Pre-Madonna
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 84ccfc84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2022 at 10:48am
Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

Yes I also agree about the Parrott and Obafemi partnership. Let's not forget it produced two cracking goals vs. Scotland the last time they played together.
Again the other night they worked well and Parrott should have scored with the chance Obafemi wasted. 

I think he would be mad to give up on that straight away. I wouldn't be cursing Kenny if he did drop one of them for Ogbene but I would personally stick with the 2 if they were fit. 

Let's not also forget, we went a lot worse in the 2nd half yesterday when Obafemi and then Parrott went off the pitch. 

I just wouldnt trust Troy to put that one big chance away at the moment and I think we will need to take the chances we create. I also wouldnt be critical of Kenny if he does go with him again, it's a tough call. It's hard to ignore Ogbene's form this season though, he has scored 5 in 10 starts and he has scored goals for Kenny previously. I know Hogan has 5 also, but he did get 3 in one game which can sometimes skew the numbers (an outlier) and Ogbene is more dangerous in general play then Hogan.

ogbene was desperate in the last window. dont think hes good enough to be a starting international level forward. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2022 at 11:42am
Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

Yes I also agree about the Parrott and Obafemi partnership. Let's not forget it produced two cracking goals vs. Scotland the last time they played together.
Again the other night they worked well and Parrott should have scored with the chance Obafemi wasted. 

I think he would be mad to give up on that straight away. I wouldn't be cursing Kenny if he did drop one of them for Ogbene but I would personally stick with the 2 if they were fit. 

Let's not also forget, we went a lot worse in the 2nd half yesterday when Obafemi and then Parrott went off the pitch. 

I just wouldnt trust Troy to put that one big chance away at the moment and I think we will need to take the chances we create. I also wouldnt be critical of Kenny if he does go with him again, it's a tough call. It's hard to ignore Ogbene's form this season though, he has scored 5 in 10 starts and he has scored goals for Kenny previously. I know Hogan has 5 also, but he did get 3 in one game which can sometimes skew the numbers (an outlier) and Ogbene is more dangerous in general play then Hogan.

He's got 4 goals in 16 games! That's already pretty much as good a strike rate as any of our strikers have managed bar Robbie Keane. Obafemi and Parrott have shown lots of promise as a partnership imo, it would be insane to throw that away based on one scuffed finish. Like just think about it for a second, why on earth would you weight one miss more highly than the 2 brilliant goals they scored/assisted each other for in the home game to Scotland? It's just recency bias, it's certainly not rational.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hotlips_Hoolahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2022 at 11:51am
It's not one miss. LOL He missed when it was easier to score against Ukraine as well, following a similar pattern at club level. Two absolute sitters and Kenny under pressure because of it. Three goals against two of the worst sides in Europe in meaningless friendlies and one against Scotland. Any time he faces good opposition, he chokes. 0 goals in 20 Championship games, but it's everyone else's fault at Preston, just like it was at Millwall.

Edited by Hotlips_Hoolahan - 26 Sep 2022 at 11:53am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2022 at 11:51am
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

Yes I also agree about the Parrott and Obafemi partnership. Let's not forget it produced two cracking goals vs. Scotland the last time they played together.
Again the other night they worked well and Parrott should have scored with the chance Obafemi wasted. 

I think he would be mad to give up on that straight away. I wouldn't be cursing Kenny if he did drop one of them for Ogbene but I would personally stick with the 2 if they were fit. 

Let's not also forget, we went a lot worse in the 2nd half yesterday when Obafemi and then Parrott went off the pitch. 

I just wouldnt trust Troy to put that one big chance away at the moment and I think we will need to take the chances we create. I also wouldnt be critical of Kenny if he does go with him again, it's a tough call. It's hard to ignore Ogbene's form this season though, he has scored 5 in 10 starts and he has scored goals for Kenny previously. I know Hogan has 5 also, but he did get 3 in one game which can sometimes skew the numbers (an outlier) and Ogbene is more dangerous in general play then Hogan.

He's got 4 goals in 16 games! That's already pretty much as good a strike rate as any of our strikers have managed bar Robbie Keane. Obafemi and Parrott have shown lots of promise as a partnership imo, it would be insane to throw that away based on one scuffed finish. Like just think about it for a second, why on earth would you weight one miss more highly than the 2 brilliant goals they scored/assisted each other for in the home game to Scotland? It's just recency bias, it's certainly not rational.
So Hogan's problem is non-recency bias. That explains it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2022 at 12:01pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

Yes I also agree about the Parrott and Obafemi partnership. Let's not forget it produced two cracking goals vs. Scotland the last time they played together.
Again the other night they worked well and Parrott should have scored with the chance Obafemi wasted. 

I think he would be mad to give up on that straight away. I wouldn't be cursing Kenny if he did drop one of them for Ogbene but I would personally stick with the 2 if they were fit. 

Let's not also forget, we went a lot worse in the 2nd half yesterday when Obafemi and then Parrott went off the pitch. 

I just wouldnt trust Troy to put that one big chance away at the moment and I think we will need to take the chances we create. I also wouldnt be critical of Kenny if he does go with him again, it's a tough call. It's hard to ignore Ogbene's form this season though, he has scored 5 in 10 starts and he has scored goals for Kenny previously. I know Hogan has 5 also, but he did get 3 in one game which can sometimes skew the numbers (an outlier) and Ogbene is more dangerous in general play then Hogan.

He's got 4 goals in 16 games! That's already pretty much as good a strike rate as any of our strikers have managed bar Robbie Keane. Obafemi and Parrott have shown lots of promise as a partnership imo, it would be insane to throw that away based on one scuffed finish. Like just think about it for a second, why on earth would you weight one miss more highly than the 2 brilliant goals they scored/assisted each other for in the home game to Scotland? It's just recency bias, it's certainly not rational.

This 4 in 16 thing is trotted out a lot about Parrott and let me be clear here, I rate Troy and think he is already an important player in our squad, but the records of the 4 options are set out hereunder, there's nothing in it between them all at this point tbh. If anything Ogbene's record is the best of the lot and he's the man in form at club level.. 

I have already said it's a tough decision, but on balance I wouldnt trust Troy atm to put that one big chance away, so I'd have him on the bench for this one. You could also say why isnt Dozie starting just cos Parrott and Obafemi clicked in one game. Should it now just be Parrott and Obafemi in perpetuity?

Parrott has 4 in 16, 2 vs Andorra in a friendly, 1 vs Lithuania in a friendly, 1 in a competitive fixture vs Scotland.

Ogbene has 3 in 11, 1 in a friendly vs Belgium, 2 in competitive fixtures vs Azerbaijan and Luxembourg

Obafemi 1 in 5, competitive vs Scotland

Robinson 7 in 31, 4 in friendlies, 3 in competitive fixtures
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2022 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

It's not one miss. LOL He missed when it was easier to score against Ukraine as well, following a similar pattern at club level. Two absolute sitters and Kenny under pressure because of it. Three goals against two of the worst sides in Europe in meaningless friendlies and one against Scotland. Any time he faces good opposition, he chokes. 0 goals in 20 Championship games, but it's everyone else's fault at Preston, just like it was at Millwall.

He didn't choke in the 96th minute against Lithuania.
He didn't choke against Scotland the first time around. 

He is 20 years old. He is not finished article and he will have some good games and some bad games. Thought he was actually good the other night other than the miss and also not squaring for knight (think we scored the resulting corner though). That will come with more experience in my opinion. 
I'm delighted we have someone that appears to have a high enough ceiling coming through. Of course he still has a long way to go.

He works well with Obfami. I'd stick with it a bit longer. Hogan and Obafemi might not work out so well together. 
Leave that experiment to a friendly next month even


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