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The 8th - Repealed!

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Poll Question: Will you vote to Repeal the 8th amendment?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
74 [64.35%]
41 [35.65%]
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SuperDave84 View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SuperDave84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 2:10pm
There's a couple I know who luckily don't live in Ireland. They really want to have children. They've conceived twice but on both occasions miscarried. Now, thanks to publicly funded healthcare and genetic testing, they know exactly what the problem is. Long and short of it, around 50% of pregnancies they have will result in pregnancies that are either not viable or will result in conceiving children with potentially fatal abnormalities, or with very serious disabilities.

If they lived here, they wouldn't be able to access the healthcare they need, as things stand. She would, quite potentially, be forced to carry to term, knowing that the trauma of birth would kill their child, or knowing that their child would live only a very short and unpleasant life. She would have to go through months of being asked all the usual questions and being subjected to all the usual comments like "oh, you're glowing", "I bet you're excited", "is this you're first" and all the rest, and either having to put on a brave face, or answer truthfully each and every time, reliving it each time. That is, frankly, appalling.

Now, when I see "vote no" posters with mothers holding their newborn babies, I get angry. Not everyone who needs an abortion doesn't want the child they are carrying. Not everyone who needs an abortion doesn't want to be a mother. Not everyone who needs an abortion is a murderer. Hell, I'm glad that couple don't live in Ireland and don't have to see those posters every day, and see a reminder of how little they are cared for by the Constitution in this country.

Vote yes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lassassinblanc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

There's a couple I know who luckily don't live in Ireland. They really want to have children. They've conceived twice but on both occasions miscarried. Now, thanks to publicly funded healthcare and genetic testing, they know exactly what the problem is. Long and short of it, around 50% of pregnancies they have will result in pregnancies that are either not viable or will result in conceiving children with potentially fatal abnormalities, or with very serious disabilities.

If they lived here, they wouldn't be able to access the healthcare they need, as things stand. She would, quite potentially, be forced to carry to term, knowing that the trauma of birth would kill their child, or knowing that their child would live only a very short and unpleasant life. She would have to go through months of being asked all the usual questions and being subjected to all the usual comments like "oh, you're glowing", "I bet you're excited", "is this you're first" and all the rest, and either having to put on a brave face, or answer truthfully each and every time, reliving it each time. That is, frankly, appalling.

Now, when I see "vote no" posters with mothers holding their newborn babies, I get angry. Not everyone who needs an abortion doesn't want the child they are carrying. Not everyone who needs an abortion doesn't want to be a mother. Not everyone who needs an abortion is a murderer. Hell, I'm glad that couple don't live in Ireland and don't have to see those posters every day, and see a reminder of how little they are cared for by the Constitution in this country.

Vote yes.


Clap

Well said Dave.

Heartbreaking stories like this show how behind Ireland is and why things need to change

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alihau41 View Drop Down
Liam Brady
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alihau41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 3:53pm
can't stand how the anti-abortion lot can call themselves 'pro-life'. me f**kin bollocks they are pro-life. 8th puts a prison sentence on women, regardless of their situation
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nvidic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by alihau41 alihau41 wrote:

can't stand how the anti-abortion lot can call themselves 'pro-life'. me f**kin bollocks they are pro-life. 8th puts a prison sentence on women, regardless of their situation
 
 

They're pro-birth, they don't give a toss what happens then


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sid waddell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:


The thing is, you don't really need to legislate to manage the "hard cases". By removing the 8th you open up the system to permit termination in the event of the "hard cases" as the life of the mother is clearly at risk. 

And nor should we want to. Legislation to cover all cases is what is proposed and needed - not legislation to merely cover exceptions - which as we know, is impossible as long as the Eighth Amendment is around.

In the last week or so we've seen No campaigners so desperate that they're throwing out this "exceptions"sop - they are of course lying through their teeth for the 137,380th time in this campaign as if there's a No vote they have no intention whatsoever of letting anything change.

The "exceptions" idea is so stupid. We really don't want to put rape victims on trial in order to obtain an abortion, do we?





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Croftman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Croftman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 4:08pm
Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

There's a couple I know who luckily don't live in Ireland. They really want to have children. They've conceived twice but on both occasions miscarried. Now, thanks to publicly funded healthcare and genetic testing, they know exactly what the problem is. Long and short of it, around 50% of pregnancies they have will result in pregnancies that are either not viable or will result in conceiving children with potentially fatal abnormalities, or with very serious disabilities.

If they lived here, they wouldn't be able to access the healthcare they need, as things stand. She would, quite potentially, be forced to carry to term, knowing that the trauma of birth would kill their child, or knowing that their child would live only a very short and unpleasant life. She would have to go through months of being asked all the usual questions and being subjected to all the usual comments like "oh, you're glowing", "I bet you're excited", "is this you're first" and all the rest, and either having to put on a brave face, or answer truthfully each and every time, reliving it each time. That is, frankly, appalling.

Now, when I see "vote no" posters with mothers holding their newborn babies, I get angry. Not everyone who needs an abortion doesn't want the child they are carrying. Not everyone who needs an abortion doesn't want to be a mother. Not everyone who needs an abortion is a murderer. Hell, I'm glad that couple don't live in Ireland and don't have to see those posters every day, and see a reminder of how little they are cared for by the Constitution in this country.

Vote yes.
Clap
Some people just deserve a slap
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sid waddell View Drop Down
Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 4:11pm
Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

This is indepth analysis of the Referendum It is pure analysis of all arguments. The author is a No voter but the author is advocating ammending the current Article in the constitution as opposed to ridding of it. Its an informative piece regardless of which voting intention someone has.
Impossible to do that - three former attorney generals (I refuse to say attorneys general as it really irks me even though it may be technically correct) have said it's impossible and any basic reading of the wording by a lay person shows it's impossible to amend it.
Sid, you're in for a shock when you see the polling card tomorrow. You're being asked one question, "whether or not to delete the present Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution and replace it with a new Article."

So yes, it is definitely possible to amend the constitution. A Yes vote will do that
Where did I say it wasn't possible to amend the constitution?

I said it's impossible to amend the Eighth Amendment, or replace it with something that keeps its essential meaning but makes exceptions - because its essential nature is that you CANNOT make exceptions. 

The constitution either says there is an equal right to life or there isn't - once you make exceptions there is NO equal right to life - and therefore the Eighth Amendment and its essential meaning ceases to exist. 








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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:



Now, when I see "vote no" posters with mothers holding their newborn babies, I get angry. 

Vote yes.
I really wonder about anybody who has familiarised themselves with the issues and doesn't get angry about the Eighth Amendment. 

The reason these debates get heated is because the No side are living in a fantasy world, they are not living in a world remotely connected to reality. 

You can't debate with that. It's like debating with a cult member. When one side pays no heed to facts or reality, yes, obviously the other side gets angry. Angry at rank fooking stupidity.

I'll be quite up front and say that I have NO respect for the No-supporting position. None at all. 

To consider the incredible damage the Eighth Amendment does to women, to have famiiarised yourself with the issues, and to still say, "yeah, that's acceptable, I'm voting No" - I'm sorry, but that is extremism, that person is an extremist, and that person is well and truly fooked up in the head. 




Edited by sid waddell - 24 May 2018 at 4:19pm
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Het-field View Drop Down
Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

And nor should we want to. Legislation to cover all cases is what is proposed and needed - not legislation to merely cover exceptions - which as we know, is impossible as long as the Eighth Amendment is around.

In the last week or so we've seen No campaigners so desperate that they're throwing out this "exceptions"sop - they are of course lying through their teeth for the 137,380th time in this campaign as if there's a No vote they have no intention whatsoever of letting anything change.

The "exceptions" idea is so stupid. We really don't want to put rape victims on trial in order to obtain an abortion, do we?






That was my point. But my other point was that the referendum could have been made easier for the Yes side of no proposal of legislation had been tagged on to it. It would have allowed the Yes Campaign focus on the hard areas, while still having to deal with the No Campaigners claim about future legislation and the length of time that would go to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OohAah... Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 5:24pm
All opinions aside on how people will vote. Both sides of the campaign do my head in. Smug Know alls, rarely deal with logical facts, over simplify everything and only spout the stats/facts that suit their argument.

Its an incredibly deep and complex topic that should be treated as such.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Newryrep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 5:30pm
counting tonight or tomorrow 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Butch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 5:38pm
One of the biggest attention seeking topics on social media that i can remember . Very much so that people are trying to out do each other's posts . I even noticed one girl taking credit for a post she didn't even write but lead people to believe she had wrote it . Very needing people 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UCDFAN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 5:47pm
Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

All opinions aside on how people will vote. Both sides of the campaign do my head in. Smug Know alls, rarely deal with logical facts, over simplify everything and only spout the stats/facts that suit their argument.

Its an incredibly deep and complex topic that should be treated as such.

This.
The excuse given is that the absolute outcome YES/NO of Referendum s allows for a binary debate.  No diversity, complexity or representation of society is needed or wanted thank you very much.
#SingleEqualityGround #SingleIssuePolitics
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sid waddell View Drop Down
Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 5:49pm
Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

All opinions aside on how people will vote. Both sides of the campaign do my head in. Smug Know alls, rarely deal with logical facts, over simplify everything and only spout the stats/facts that suit their argument.

Its an incredibly deep and complex topic that should be treated as such.
The subject of abortion is. 

The subject of the 8th Amendment isn't - it's actually a very simple topic to grasp. 

It's simple because the 8th Amendment is a total disaster with no redeeming features - the decision to get rid of it should be a very easy one for people to make. 




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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

The subject of abortion is. 

The subject of the 8th Amendment isn't - it's actually a very simple topic to grasp. 

It's simple because the 8th Amendment is a total disaster with no redeeming features - the decision to get rid of it should be a very easy one for people to make. 





The difficulty is the issue of abortion became coupled with the amendment as the legislation follows. Repeal on its own had the potential to be a much easier sell as it was capable of being argued that abortion wouldn't necessarily follow repeal.
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Ray Houghton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OohAah... Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 6:48pm
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

All opinions aside on how people will vote. Both sides of the campaign do my head in. Smug Know alls, rarely deal with logical facts, over simplify everything and only spout the stats/facts that suit their argument.

Its an incredibly deep and complex topic that should be treated as such.
The subject of abortion is. 

The subject of the 8th Amendment isn't - it's actually a very simple topic to grasp. 

It's simple because the 8th Amendment is a total disaster with no redeeming features - the decision to get rid of it should be a very easy one for people to make. 





The redeeming feature is its seeking to protect a life (if you believe it is a life) with equal regard to the life of a mother in the highest law of the land. The Constitution


It is flawed. But without it The new constitution will only protect born people. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by Newryrep Newryrep wrote:

counting tonight or tomorrow 

Neither as the vote is tomorrow.  

Counting is on Sat. Result will be known on sat afternoon I suspect. 




AKA pedantic kunt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BohsinMunich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 7:54pm
One repeal the 8th t shirt in Munich airport. 
She said nibody had asked her about it.



Edited by BohsinMunich - 24 May 2018 at 8:06pm
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