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U17's - Have done us proud at Euro 2018
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Jack Charlton
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Points: 9155 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DUBLIN DOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 10:59am
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by DUBLIN DOC DUBLIN DOC wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by MC Hammered MC Hammered wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by the_walls the_walls wrote:

It looked to me that he had one foot on the line as the Dutch lad struck the ball. Is it a case that both feet have to be on the line?
Maybe, but he took two steps forward. He had to have been off the line at some point and was ridiculously obvious about it.

I think you are overstating how obvious it was that he was off his line. I would imagine that if we examined any peno shootout since this rule was brought in, there would be evidence of a keeper infringing in the same manner
The fact that people aren't grasping it would suggest otherwise. It was one of the most blatant examples in my time watching football. 
How many times have you rewatched it to make it so blatantly obvious ?
At this stage, way too many times! Every time HM argues otherwise I watch it again, just in case I was wrong! The more I watch it, the more obvious it is.
Ah I know it’s one of them did he didn’t he things , but what I am trying to say is when watching live at the time was your opinion exactly the same as you are posting now after seeing it so many times now, I did not see the linesman flag as has been said by GF, and I certainly did not see any major charging off the line or anything else from Corcoran that I have not seen hundreds of times from more experienced goalies
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Im only seeing last few posts now.
 
In no order
 
Last post yes you are 100% correct the referee does NOT have to agree or go with Lino flag so if I said this as a definite I was incorrect and apologise. The chances of him going against the lino who has 2 things to do on penalty, one award goal on what is called hair line decision (tight over the line call) and second goalkeeper coming off his line are slim and in UEFA/FIFA if he didn't take flag then that's end of his career. Lino is in line with goal line where referee is between pen spot and goal.
 
In Paris as Gary said its a referee call and I have absolutely no doubt the referee team missed the handball. Its a judgment call and in the referees opinion there was no handball so no Law was broken.
We had a handball from Keano in Croke Park when we scored which if was given may had led to non qualification. Were Georgia entitled to appeal...... NO because in referee team opinion there was no handball.
I disagree that if same situation as Monday happened in a WC/Euro Finals then there would not be a protest and feel there definitely would.
 
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I didn't see it live Doc, I was on a flight. The first time I saw it I was amazed there was an outcry. It seemed so blatant. The more I watch it, the more I agree with my initial assessment.
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Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Originally posted by Bob Hoskins Bob Hoskins wrote:

They should change the laws of penos. When the whistle blows the keeper can run off his line, the player can take several touches but only has 5 seconds. 

I also visualise the keeper waving a stick for some reason, that aside, I think the Hoskins rule should be in place for World Cup 2030



Way better way to to do a penalty shoot out, it reflects the actual game far more accurately then a static shot from 12 feet where the keeper can't move off the line. Once it's into sudden death and the defender's take them then it get's more interesting  
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Have you slowed it down at all PM, and watched it while pausing it at certain points. Your opinion will definitely change then I believe. The rules are clear about at what points the keeper must be on the goal line while a penalty is being taken. When pausing the video of the penalty at the key points, there's no way you could definitively say Corcoran acted illegally.
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Originally posted by Bob Hoskins Bob Hoskins wrote:

Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Originally posted by Bob Hoskins Bob Hoskins wrote:

They should change the laws of penos. When the whistle blows the keeper can run off his line, the player can take several touches but only has 5 seconds. 

I also visualise the keeper waving a stick for some reason, that aside, I think the Hoskins rule should be in place for World Cup 2030



Way better way to to do a penalty shoot out, it reflects the actual game far more accurately then a static shot from 12 feet where the keeper can't move off the line. Once it's into sudden death and the defender's take them then it get's more interesting  
Would probably agree with that, but it just looks so strange when we are all so used to the normal penalty scenario. They constantly do stupid tweaks around penalty rules like that comical gk yellow card now for retakes, or the ABBA situation. Yet they never assess whether the setup is just wrong to begin with and maybe that old mls style would be better.
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

I will actually go at this another way. If that penalty save stood from Corcoran, do you think the Dutch player taking the penalty, the Dutch manager, the Dutch media, that any of the above would say a word about the save being illegal if they went on to be knocked out over it. I don't for a second think they would. It is the norm in penalty save situations imo thst there's leeway given to the keeper.
In a word, yes. If it was the other way around and the Dutch goalkeeper had done similar and got away it, I would understand the sense of injustice.

Thats nonsense. Where has anyone ever complained before?

Look at the striker's reaction? He has no idea its a foul, and its his pen that has just been saved. He puts his head in his hands in shock at his miss. He doesnt have the slightest inclination that anything is up, because his penatly miss is similar to most other penalty misses. Luckily for him he is about to get an absolute gift
from the referree, who decides to apply a rule (incorrectly, as despite appearances there is no foul) which is rarley applied. 


Edited by rolo - 17 May 2018 at 11:47am
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Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Have you slowed it down at all PM, and watched it while pausing it at certain points. Your opinion will definitely change then I believe. The rules are clear about at what points the keeper must be on the goal line while a penalty is being taken. When pausing the video of the penalty at the key points, there's no way you could definitively say Corcoran acted illegally.
Yeah, several times. He takes two clear steps forward before the ball is struck, no matter what way you look at it.
 
Rolo, the striker is only focused on the outcome. He isn't going to be aware of the goalkeeper's infractions so his reaction is irrelevant.
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A lot of the argument on this should have died down when Corcoran came out himself and admitted he was in the wrong, I would have thought.
 
 
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Originally posted by Gary McKay Gary McKay wrote:

Originally posted by gspain gspain wrote:

The difference between Paris and Belfast is that the referee incorrectly applied the laws of the game in Belfast.  In Paris he just missed something (although I blame the linesman really).  
 
OM got into last night's Europa League Final because the referee incorrectly gave them a corner at the end of extra time in Salzburg.  You cannot replay games over refereeing mistakes.  On the very rare occasion when a referee doesn't know the laws of the game then it may be possible particularly for a last minute penalty.  
I understand what you're saying but how do we know the Ref in Paris'09 didn't make a mistake.
How do we prove that he DID see the handball and said feck it I don't like Paddies and Blatter's giving me an envelope, a Rolex and a Lebanese hooker after the game.
 
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I think Anelka's dive a couple of minutes earlier probably proves his honesty.  Watching live I thought it was a penalty.  The replays showed it as a blatant dive.  If things had been different the referee could have been our hero.  I don't think he could have seen the handball but the linesman had a perfect view.    

However given the reaction the referee should have known something was seriously wrong and should have taken more time rather than just check Gallas was onside. 
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The keeper moves too much which gives the ref the illusion he's trying to gain an unfair advantage.
 
Maybe it should have been retaken but the second yellow card without a proper warning for the Irish keeper is incredibly harsh
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Originally posted by bhob bhob wrote:

The keeper moves too much which gives the ref the illusion he's trying to gain an unfair advantage.
 
Maybe it should have been retaken but the second yellow card without a proper warning for the Irish keeper is incredibly harsh
Would very much agree with the first part. His movements put the ref on alert. They are very pronounced, but this does not necessarily mean illegal. I'd love to see camera angles from the side, it would be so much easier to see where Corcoran is at the key points of the penalty.
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Originally posted by Gary McKay Gary McKay wrote:

Originally posted by DG80 DG80 wrote:

dont know if it was mentioned here but if a team goes down to 10 men in a shootout does the other team have to take one of their players off the list of penalty takers?
No.
If it goes to 11 penalties then a player takes a second one.
 

Not sure what happens if the sending off is in a shootout but if a team goes to 10 men and the other team have 11 men going into a shootout then a player must be selected to drop out from the order. 
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Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Have you slowed it down at all PM, and watched it while pausing it at certain points. Your opinion will definitely change then I believe. The rules are clear about at what points the keeper must be on the goal line while a penalty is being taken. When pausing the video of the penalty at the key points, there's no way you could definitively say Corcoran acted illegally.


No it won't. He absolutely refuses to believe that there is any possibility he might be wrong. The fact that he has described it as "one of the most blatant infringements" he's ever seen tells you everything you neef to know.... I think you're both banging your heads against the wall on this one, you aren't going to come to any sort of an agreement.
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Originally posted by ShamtheRam ShamtheRam wrote:

Originally posted by Gary McKay Gary McKay wrote:

Originally posted by DG80 DG80 wrote:

dont know if it was mentioned here but if a team goes down to 10 men in a shootout does the other team have to take one of their players off the list of penalty takers?
No.
If it goes to 11 penalties then a player takes a second one.
 

Not sure what happens if the sending off is in a shootout but if a team goes to 10 men and the other team have 11 men going into a shootout then a player must be selected to drop out from the order. 

Yea I thought this too orherwise the side with 10 players have gained an advantage.
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Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

A lot of the argument on this should have died down when Corcoran came out himself and admitted he was in the wrong, I would have thought.
 
 
But the whole thing is he done exactly what you see every other keeper do instinctively in a peno situation in much higher profile games also, so why now ? Why him and why not the oppo keeper carded for his infringements
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I didn't see it live Doc, I was on a flight. The first time I saw it I was amazed there was an outcry. It seemed so blatant. The more I watch it, the more I agree with my initial assessment.
Well seeing it live I just could not really see the infringement and certainly could not believe the yellow card for it (but admit I did not know the rule) but subsequently since the clarification of the rule yes he is in the wrong even if it is pretty minor imo, but why has this rule not been enforced until now ? I must say I still find it very strange
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Originally posted by DUBLIN DOC DUBLIN DOC wrote:

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

A lot of the argument on this should have died down when Corcoran came out himself and admitted he was in the wrong, I would have thought.
 
 
But the whole thing is he done exactly what you see every other keeper do instinctively in a peno situation in much higher profile games also, so why now ? Why him and why not the oppo keeper carded for his infringements
 
That's a matter for other refs. In this instance, it seems the officials called it right, sadly.
 
 
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