U17's - Have done us proud at Euro 2018

pre Madonna wrote: zizu Kilbane wrote: pre Madonna wrote: People just seem to have been confused by the rules and are then afraid to backtrack when the confusion was cleared up. Everyone, myself included, was a bit unsure about the rules. As soon as they were made clear the debate should be ended, except if you have difficulty accepting that.   That isn't the injustice. The injustice is that this rule is probably implemented in less than 1% of similar scenarios globally, at any level. If it was then there wouldn't have been an issue. So clearly there is a very valid debate to be had, you had professionals as well as supporters who hadn't a clue that this rule existed. There are very, very few cases as obvious as this one. This isn't a case of a goalkeeper being drawn to the ball or diving forward to soon, it was a goalkeeper running forwards! It was blatant and, considering the Dutch keeper had been warned for doing what most goalkeepers generally do, means this was extremely naïve, something the player himself seems to recognise in Sham's post. He deserves huge credit for being so candid.

You are absolutely adamant that there is no grey area here PM. I couldn't disagree more. I will say this though the moment I watched Corcoran save it live, I thought oh bollox he went too early. The more times I've watched it back, the more it looks like he did little wrong at all, unless he was behind the line when the strikers run up begins. 

I see Corcoran has said it was the correct decision.

I do think there is plenty of grey here myself, and I don't think just because a movement looks out of the ordinary or totally unorthodox by the keeper, means that it is 100 percent an illegal movement. As I've said myself, watching live I thought straight away retake because of that movement. After replays though it becomes less and less clear where exactly the infringement is imo, when if there definitely was one after watching numerous replays you'd imagine it would more and more clear. Outside of whether the retake was warranted, the yellow card situation is comical. A truly awful rule. It's awfulness hammered home by the inability to put an actual goalkeeper in as a replacement if such a red card incident happens again. They will either have to scrap the rule altogether down the road, or at a minimum amend it so a red carded keeper can be replaced by an actual keeper on the bench so as not to make a mockery of the penalty shootout. I really hope a big game in the WC pans out exactly like this, the rule will be changed the next day then.

Edited by Hans Moleman - 16 May 2018 at 8:59am

We will have to agree to disagree then. The more I watch it, the more obvious it is. However 'unorthodox' his movements are, they include two forward steps. Even the player himself agrees, which really should be the end of it.

Edited by pre Madonna - 16 May 2018 at 9:07am

He is moving forward well before the ball is struck, which is why he, and others, are so sure. The only debate is whether he started behind the line or finished in front of the line, but both are equally wrong.

Hans Moleman wrote: Not disputing for a second that both are equally wrong. I am disputing though that he was definitively ahead or behind the goal line at any point from the strikers run up beginning, to the point of the striker hitting the ball. It really is not clear on the replays, I know as I've gone and slowed them down and freeze framed them. I like to believe what my eyes are seeing! I can see why plenty think he's clearly off the line, I thought that originally myself, but when slowed down, it is not clear at all that an infringement occurs.

I will actually go at this another way. If that penalty save stood from Corcoran, do you think the Dutch player taking the penalty, the Dutch manager, the Dutch media, that any of the above would say a word about the save being illegal if they went on to be knocked out over it. I don't for a second think they would. It is the norm in penalty save situations imo thst there's leeway given to the keeper.

Hans Moleman wrote: Simply can't agree with that statement. Your belief is that any steps occurred before the Dutch player strikes the ball, and that is highly debatable. All you have to do is go the rte player, replay it a couple of times, freezing it at different points throughout. What you are saying simply is not definitively true then, once viewed in that way. I can see why the referee might think otherwise in real time, but that does not necessarily make him right. Btw, I would encourage anyone to watch the '05 CL final penalty shootout. There are points where Dudek is taking 2/3 steps forward before a ball is struck. Pirlos penalty being saved is hilarious it's so blatant. Much more blatant than anything Corcoran did. That is at the heart of the issue here, if I went back through 100 penalty saves from the past year or 2 (I know Dudeks were further back, but there wasn't even  a murmur about them being illegal at that time) how many would actually be undeniably 100 percent legal?