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Zinedine Kilbane 110 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

If you'd ask me years ago, with the utter incompetence of officials, I'd have said that VAR has to be brought in. Watching the way it's been implemented in the past couple of years though, it is a scourge on the game. Unless there is huge changes in the way it's used I'd happily see it scrapped. 



I agree. I thought new technology great. Its a no brainer. But remember when platini and all those guys were hesitant on this when they said it would take away from the essence of the game. The passion etc...you know i think they were right. Yes we were screwed in Paris but you didnt need VAR that night to spot what went on. Seeing it now i just dont think its suited to football. Also do we erase the history of football now...all those world cups, european championships etc. How many of those goals wud have been disallowed? 

I would like VAR to be used for the ‘obvious’ errors i.e. when the player is yard offside or clear handball.

I don’t like the decisions down to the MM. IMO sterling’s goal should have stood. You want your striker trying to steal a little advantage.

The replay should be looked at once in slow motion with no freeze frame and a decision made then.
If it’s an obvious error then more will be picked up (not everything) but that’s better for the game. It will be quick and the game moves on.

I don’t think every decision being micro analysed is good for the game.

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Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

If you'd ask me years ago, with the utter incompetence of officials, I'd have said that VAR has to be brought in. Watching the way it's been implemented in the past couple of years though, it is a scourge on the game. Unless there is huge changes in the way it's used I'd happily see it scrapped. 



I agree. I thought new technology great. Its a no brainer. But remember when platini and all those guys were hesitant on this when they said it would take away from the essence of the game. The passion etc...you know i think they were right. Yes we were screwed in Paris but you didnt need VAR that night to spot what went on. Seeing it now i just dont think its suited to football. Also do we erase the history of football now...all those world cups, european championships etc. How many of those goals wud have been disallowed? 

I would like VAR to be used for the ‘obvious’ errors i.e. when the player is yard offside or clear handball.

I don’t like the decisions down to the MM. IMO sterling’s goal should have stood. You want your striker trying to steal a little advantage.

The replay should be looked at once in slow motion with no freeze frame and a decision made then.
If it’s an obvious error then more will be picked up (not everything) but that’s better for the game. It will be quick and the game moves on.

I don’t think every decision being micro analysed is good for the game.



This. Or if they are micromanaging things like offside, then the technology and communication between VAR and referee has to be be far better and far quicker. The amount of time involved in making decisions is a huge factor.

VAR should be seamless. You should barely know it is ever there. This utter nonsense that comes from rugby of staring at a big screen for 3 minutes while the referee talks to another lad in a TV booth somewhere is desperate. 

Hopefully there is more and more dissent about how VAR is implemented. They might, eventually, move in a decent direction with it then. 
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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What do people think should have happened in the West Ham game?
Jesus' goal - Sterling given offside by a mm - goal disallowed, do people think it should have been given?
Aguero's penalty - VAR spotted encroachment - retaken and penalty scored, do people think the penalty should have been retaken?

Should the score have been 4-0 5-0 or 6-0
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There's an old saying, you can't be a bit offside, you're either off or you're on.
 
Where would you draw the line (pardon the pun) for ruling how far you're allowed to be offside for a goal to stand? 1 centimetre? 5 centimetres? 10 centimetres?
 
Will bring in a whole new grey area, and further delays, to the use of VAR as those in the video room measure the distance a player is offside at the time the ball is played.
 
 
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Finally some sense being talked here. Thumbs Up
 
Too often in various competitions, referees & VARs have been wasting too much time nit-picking, looking for the tiniest problem such as Sterling's offside last Sunday.
 
It's 'clear & obvious' errors & 'serious' missed incidents they should be reviewing and should only take a few seconds to review.  If they could stick to that instead of wasting several minutes looking to see if a player's toenail is offside, VAR would work much better than it has done. Some common sense should come into it (yes, I know, that's a quality that clearly escapes some refs, but still... LOL).
The nation holds it's breath...YES, WE'RE THERE!!!
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Originally posted by colemanY2K colemanY2K wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

If you'd ask me years ago, with the utter incompetence of officials, I'd have said that VAR has to be brought in. Watching the way it's been implemented in the past couple of years though, it is a scourge on the game. Unless there is huge changes in the way it's used I'd happily see it scrapped. 



I agree. I thought new technology great. Its a no brainer. But remember when platini and all those guys were hesitant on this when they said it would take away from the essence of the game. The passion etc...you know i think they were right. Yes we were screwed in Paris but you didnt need VAR that night to spot what went on. Seeing it now i just dont think its suited to football. Also do we erase the history of football now...all those world cups, european championships etc. How many of those goals wud have been disallowed? 

Well they obviously didn't spot what went on that night in Paris did they? Confused

Ha, if you believe that you would believe anything. they all saw it alright, they just decided to do nothing about it.
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Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

There's an old saying, you can't be a bit offside, you're either off or you're on.
 
Where would you draw the line (pardon the pun) for ruling how far you're allowed to be offside for a goal to stand? 1 centimetre? 5 centimetres? 10 centimetres?
 
Will bring in a whole new grey area, and further delays, to the use of VAR as those in the video room measure the distance a player is offside at the time the ball is played.
 
 

They actually don't have the technology to judge these offsides. When it's down to mm as it often is, the technology is not 100 percent correct. Not even close. In tennis, a sport where you have static lines the Hawkeye system is about 98 percent correct iirc.

The frames on the when the ball is released are comical at times tbh. Sterling's allowed goal showed 2 frames where he was on and offside. It was impossible to tell when the ball was precisely played for the pass to Sterling. Essentially they are guessing because the technology is not up to speed.

Until the days when they all the leagues are willing to pay a fortune for the highest levels of technology, the decisions should just go by the on field referee. Upskilling those lads is the biggest issues in high level football.
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Those marginal offside decisions will never be exact, almost impossible to acertain the precise moment when a players foot makes contact with the ball causing it to move. It may be argued that the ball starts its motion only when the player releases his foot from the ball rather than on contact.
The still image on which the decision is made will have to be accepted verbatim, similar to a photo finish in horse racing.  
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Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Those marginal offside decisions will never be exact, almost impossible to acertain the precise moment when a players foot makes contact with the ball causing it to move. It may be argued that the ball starts its motion only when the player releases his foot from the ball rather than on contact.
The still image on which the decision is made will have to be accepted verbatim, similar to a photo finish in horse racing.  

None of this is made clear to people though and I've no doubt at all the standard of technology used to adjudge these offside lines varies from competition to competition and from stadium to stadium. 

All of this should be cleared up and uniformity should exist across all VAR. It is miles away from that though. How long ago did they start trialling it, 4 years is it? Used in a few European leagues for 2 years already now. 
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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There was an interesting one in hurling this year, Wexford had a shot that looked like it was saved by the Tipp GK. Tipp went down the other end and scored a goal. In the meantime Hawkeye/VAR was looking at the Wexford shot and judged that actually crossed the line, so they went back, awarded that score and Tipp puckout.

I thought it was sensible, game continued while video refs looked at it independently. 30 seconds later, they buzzed in the ref to tell them what had happened. 

At the time Tipp were livid at having their goal ruled out, but it was the right decision, and play got to continue.
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Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

There was an interesting one in hurling this year, Wexford had a shot that looked like it was saved by the Tipp GK. Tipp went down the other end and scored a goal. In the meantime Hawkeye/VAR was looking at the Wexford shot and judged that actually crossed the line, so they went back, awarded that score and Tipp puckout.

I thought it was sensible, game continued while video refs looked at it independently. 30 seconds later, they buzzed in the ref to tell them what had happened. 

At the time Tipp were livid at having their goal ruled out, but it was the right decision, and play got to continue.

If that happened in the football with VAR, the Tipp goal would have to be given. Afaik, across the board in all leagues using VAR, once the play goes dead and the referee let's it resume again, he can't go back a phase or two. 
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

There was an interesting one in hurling this year, Wexford had a shot that looked like it was saved by the Tipp GK. Tipp went down the other end and scored a goal. In the meantime Hawkeye/VAR was looking at the Wexford shot and judged that actually crossed the line, so they went back, awarded that score and Tipp puckout.

I thought it was sensible, game continued while video refs looked at it independently. 30 seconds later, they buzzed in the ref to tell them what had happened. 

At the time Tipp were livid at having their goal ruled out, but it was the right decision, and play got to continue.
 
What happens if during the 30 seconds of play that a player commits a sending off offence - violent conduct or such like ?
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I still think it has been deliberately over complicated to add drama and tension. There is no need for the referee to look at a screen at all. An experienced official watching the game in contact with the referee can tell him when he has blatantly got a key decision wrong. That would never take more than thirty seconds. I know referees don’t like to be undermined or overruled, but it would be the simplest and easiest way to do it. 
Unfortunately, football is a brilliant game because it is so simple, so the people running it try and make it as complicated as possible...
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I still think it has been deliberately over complicated to add drama and tension. There is no need for the referee to look at a screen at all. An experienced official watching the game in contact with the referee can tell him when he has blatantly got a key decision wrong. That would never take more than thirty seconds. I know referees don’t like to be undermined or overruled, but it would be the simplest and easiest way to do it.
 
I would agree with this. The ref running over to the touchline to review something feels quite unnecessary and also just takes too long.
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The running to the pitch side screen is so comical LOL you couldn't make up a more horrible setup if you tried
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Agree. That part of it is unnecessary and takes a lot of time.
Did any refs run to the sidelines to watch a replay on a TV screen at the weekend in the EPL?
Any decisions that I saw were all made by the video ref and communicated to the ref on the pitch
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Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Agree. That part of it is unnecessary and takes a lot of time.
Did any refs run to the sidelines to watch a replay on a TV screen at the weekend in the EPL?
Any decisions that I saw were all made by the video ref and communicated to the ref on the pitch

They are doing their best in the PL tbf to move away from what FIFA have been implementing as regards VAR. FIFA specifically want the referee to be seen to make the last decision, hence you get the farcical scene of referees regularly going to a tiny tv screen pitch side to confirm what they've already been told (as is the case 99 percent of times, they go with the VAR call).

In the other major European leagues this season, you will still regularly see this afaik. It is a nonsense. As mentioned already, if you have a VAR, let them make the call and you move on. 
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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I do love that this system that has been in use for years now has no semblance of uniformity whatsoever LOL it is a complete sh*tshow



Edited by Hans Moleman - 13 Aug 2019 at 5:21pm
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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