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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lassassinblanc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 9:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nvidic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 10:13am
Think it's a mess myself, not used for clear and obvious decisions half the time, as it is meant to be. Also takes far (var?) too long.

Red card in the Serbia-Austria game the other day was a joke, feels like the ref is pressured into giving the red or penalty once they are asked to look. Cakir is the only ref I've seen not give a decision after being asked to look at it.

It will be good, just badly used at the minute.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 11:38am
Originally posted by FrankosHereNow FrankosHereNow wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by FrankosHereNow FrankosHereNow wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

VAR just does not really work in football. all those guys when it was first suggested years back saying it would ruin the game, make it to stop start are turning out to be correct. its perfect for rugby but for me i think i'd prefer the game before its came in. just to many silly decisions especially the handballs in the box. is anyone really happy with it? probably not.
You really seem to struggle with rules in football.

VAR is the best thing to happen to football in the last 20 years. It's still in its infancy but it's giving the correct outcome to almost every decision. 


thats your opinion. 
Obviously. WTF do you think a forum is? Should I put a disclaimer at the bottom of my posts? 
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The problem with VAR isn’t VAR itself, it is the lack of clarity in the rules. I am pretty sure I said similar on here when it was first introduced. One referee will see it as handball and another won’t, which is a similar inconsistency to the goalkeeper encroaching at a penalty kick. 
That’s why you have ten minute debates, when it should’ve thirty seconds at most.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 11:43am
The premier league won't be using VAR next season for keepers coming off their lines on penalties. It'll be up to the officials to decide on that
 
Apparently.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 11:45am
Can we use VAR for VAR decisions?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrendanD88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 12:12pm
VAR ruling out a beautiful Italy goal against Belgium last night Thumbs Down

Player made to look silly with his celebration.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

VAR is 99.3% accurate, so whatever a VAR decides, I trust that there are  solid grounds for the decision to be given. It may not be perfect, but it's as close to perfect as we can get. 

The penalty decision in the European Cup Final was correct, and it's already been explained why in great detail. Nor did it ruin the game. Liverpool went in front then did a solid, professional job, which Spurs had no answer to.  

The Brazil penalty incident you mention was a goal kick, as the ball had gone out of play. Correct decision. The Spain incident was offside. Correct decision. 

A game of football lasts the best part of 2 hours. So we have the time to take a couple of minutes, a few if necessary, to get a major decision right. There's no time limit. Before then, cheats could get away with stuff, at most they would later get a token ban which some of them would even welcome, and did nothing to deter them the next time. Now they get punished on the spot, as they should. 

What at first looks a simple decision to us with all our slow no and super slow mo replays available, often looks very different pitchside. Thankfully, the ref can make a major decision fully informed of all the facts, instead of guesswork as was the case before. 

I'll stand over my comments on the CL penalty being a mistake, and the VAR rushed it for some reason, and missed the initial touch on Sissokos chest meaning it can't be a penalty. It's been done to death recently.

The 2 WC penalties. The ball is clearly in play when Jesus is hacked down by Kompany. Huge mistake that results in Brazil being knocked out. Would you like to look at the replays again and correct your wrong opinion of it? Spain players were rugby tackled when a free kick came into the box, I don't recall any offside. I must look at it again myself.

You are hilarious. No matter what VAR give, you say it is correct. You do realise that this isn't a black or white computer system, it's still humans making the final decisions? Humans who are consistently making incorrect football calls with and without the VAR.

As Nvidic says it should be a good system but it's a complete mess at the moment. A part of that mess is no doubt to do with some farcical directives regarding the laws of the game as PM mentions. It's a complete farce when you can have 2 similar situations in consecutive matches, 1 given as a penalty - 1 waved away. This exact situation happened in the Nigeria Argentina game at the WC last year when the ball hit Rojo on the arm. No penalty. Exact same situation in the Portugal game earlier that day iirc, penalty given. I presume you believe both of those decisions were correct Planning?


Edited by Hans Moleman - 20 Jun 2019 at 12:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

I'll stand over my comments on the CL penalty being a mistake, and the VAR rushed it for some reason, and missed the initial touch on Sissokos chest meaning it can't be a penalty. It's been done to death recently.

The 2 WC penalties. The ball is clearly in play when Jesus is hacked down by Kompany. Huge mistake that results in Brazil being knocked out. Would you like to look at the replays again and correct your wrong opinion of it? Spain players were rugby tackled when a free kick came into the box, I don't recall any offside. I must look at it again myself.

You are hilarious. No matter what VAR give, you say it is correct. You do realise that this isn't a black or white computer system, it's still humans making the final decisions? Humans who are consistently making incorrect football calls with and without the VAR.

As Nvidic says it should be a good system but it's a complete mess at the moment. A part of that mess is no doubt to do with some farcical directives regarding the laws of the game as PM mentions. It's a complete farce when you can have 2 similar situations in consecutive matches, 1 given as a penalty - 1 waved away. This exact situation happened in the Nigeria Argentina game at the WC last year when the ball hit Rojo on the arm. No penalty. Exact same situation in the Portugal game earlier that day iirc, penalty given. I presume you believe both of those decisions were correct Planning?

The refs in both cases reviewed the situations and saw all the evidence, before making their decisions. So if they say it's a penalty or not, then I accept their judgements. Aside from that, there was more leeway for a handball offence last year. That is gone now. Handball by defender in box = automatic penalty. Hence the penalty in the European Cup Final, and dramatic increase in penalties awarded in VAR games.

In the Brazil game, the incident was reviewed from about 30 available angles, far more than we get to see. Nothing gets past a VAR so if they say the ball is out of play, then obviously it's out. Case closed. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 12:46pm
Inconsistencies and subjectivity was tolerated more when it was only refs making the call with not backup.  With introduction of VAR those inconsistencies are still there but are tolerated less. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Inconsistencies and subjectivity was tolerated more when it was only refs making the call with not backup.  With introduction of VAR those inconsistencies are still there but are tolerated less. 


Would you rather a vital decision based on numerous replays and angles or the ref who has a split second to view the incident from one angle?  I keep saying its not fool proof but the vast majority of vital decisions will now be correct.  There is still subjectivity but I'd rather that subjectivity based on viewing all the available evidence than spur of the moment subjectivity based on a fleeting view.


Edited by Trap junior - 20 Jun 2019 at 1:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Inconsistencies and subjectivity was tolerated more when it was only refs making the call with not backup.  With introduction of VAR those inconsistencies are still there but are tolerated less. 


Would you rather a vital decision based on numerous replays and angles or the ref who has a split second to view the incident from one angle?  I keep saying its not fool proof but the vast majority of vital decisions will now be correct.  There is still subjectivity but I'd rather than subjectivity based on viewing all the available evidence that spur of the moment subjectivity based on a fleeting view.

I am a fan if VAR and think it's good.and just needs a few tweaks.  What from my post gave  you the impression I wasn't. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Inconsistencies and subjectivity was tolerated more when it was only refs making the call with not backup.  With introduction of VAR those inconsistencies are still there but are tolerated less. 


Would you rather a vital decision based on numerous replays and angles or the ref who has a split second to view the incident from one angle?  I keep saying its not fool proof but the vast majority of vital decisions will now be correct.  There is still subjectivity but I'd rather than subjectivity based on viewing all the available evidence that spur of the moment subjectivity based on a fleeting view.

I am a fan if VAR and think it's good.and just needs a few tweaks.  What from my post gave  you the impression I wasn't. 


I got the impression you didn't mind the subjectivity of the ref because its a tough job but didn't like the subjectivity of VAR.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doherty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 1:30pm
i wonder if there was a world wide poll of fans/refs/coaches etc to stick with VAR or abolish it what would the outcome be?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 1:33pm
We just need to streamline it like a piece of a giant pie.  FACT.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 1:34pm
Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

I'll stand over my comments on the CL penalty being a mistake, and the VAR rushed it for some reason, and missed the initial touch on Sissokos chest meaning it can't be a penalty. It's been done to death recently.

The 2 WC penalties. The ball is clearly in play when Jesus is hacked down by Kompany. Huge mistake that results in Brazil being knocked out. Would you like to look at the replays again and correct your wrong opinion of it? Spain players were rugby tackled when a free kick came into the box, I don't recall any offside. I must look at it again myself.

You are hilarious. No matter what VAR give, you say it is correct. You do realise that this isn't a black or white computer system, it's still humans making the final decisions? Humans who are consistently making incorrect football calls with and without the VAR.

As Nvidic says it should be a good system but it's a complete mess at the moment. A part of that mess is no doubt to do with some farcical directives regarding the laws of the game as PM mentions. It's a complete farce when you can have 2 similar situations in consecutive matches, 1 given as a penalty - 1 waved away. This exact situation happened in the Nigeria Argentina game at the WC last year when the ball hit Rojo on the arm. No penalty. Exact same situation in the Portugal game earlier that day iirc, penalty given. I presume you believe both of those decisions were correct Planning?

The refs in both cases reviewed the situations and saw all the evidence, before making their decisions. So if they say it's a penalty or not, then I accept their judgements. Aside from that, there was more leeway for a handball offence last year. That is gone now. Handball by defender in box = automatic penalty. Hence the penalty in the European Cup Final, and dramatic increase in penalties awarded in VAR games.

In the Brazil game, the incident was reviewed from about 30 available angles, far more than we get to see. Nothing gets past a VAR so if they say the ball is out of play, then obviously it's out. Case closed. 

LOL handball in the box equals penalty LOL a ball deflected onto a players own arm like Sissoko, will never be a penalty again. That was already clarified, but you just keep driving on with the same nonsense. The CL penalty decision was a mistake. They didn't take long enough to see the initial contact with the chest is the only plausible explanation.

As for the Brazil WC penalty. It's a penalty. There is no disputing it. Jesus is fouled. The ball is still in play when he is fouled. How are you disputing any of that? If in the exact same situation VAR had awarded a penalty, my guess is you'd say they were correct in their judgement, no?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 2:07pm
Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

a ball deflected onto a players own arm like Sissoko, will never be a penalty again. That was already clarified, but you just keep driving on with the same nonsense. The CL penalty decision was a mistake. They didn't take long enough to see the initial contact with the chest is the only plausible explanation.

As for the Brazil WC penalty. It's a penalty. There is no disputing it. Jesus is fouled. The ball is still in play when he is fouled. How are you disputing any of that? If in the exact same situation VAR had awarded a penalty, my guess is you'd say they were correct in their judgement, no?

I didn't dispute anything. I told you the official explanation for why that penalty wasn't given. The exact same reason why Porto didn't get a penalty at Anfield in the European Cup a few months back, when the ball hit TAA. The ball was said to be out of play. Case closed. 

You still dispute it though, just as you defy the judgement of 5 of the top referees in Europe who all called the handball incident in the European Cup Final, as a penalty. They saw everything about the incident, and found no grounds to change the decision. It's not hilarious, it's the rules of the game, which even Spurs fans reluctantly agree with.

Everything is spotted now. Nothing gets past a VAR, when a decision has to be made. Therefore whatever they decide, I accept without question. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 2:44pm
Well, that was all you ever had to say. You accept every VAR decision without question. Correct calls. Incorrect calls. You accept them all as VAR said so. We've finally got there Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ProudAndLoud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 3:57pm
Scotland Ladies can have no grievance with the VAR calls last night. What they can have grievance with is that as penalty given the substitute entering the field of play had barely come onto pitch. I think referee didn't realise it was a double substitution. Also about 8/9 minutes additional time should have been played instead of 5.
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