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Why are England NOT the best

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Managers picking Neil Webb ahead of Glenn Hoddle and Gordon Cowans ahead of Paul Gascoigne.
Little things like that.
When I saw the England team sheet in Stuttgart with Sansom instead of Pearce, Webb instead of Hoddle and Waddle instead of Stevens, I knew we had a chance.
 
 
"Smalling and Jones.... have the potential to be the PL’s best ever pairing in my opinion." - SlurAlex
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by Gary McKay Gary McKay wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Managers picking Neil Webb ahead of Glenn Hoddle and Gordon Cowans ahead of Paul Gascoigne.
Little things like that.
When I saw the England team sheet in Stuttgart with Sansom instead of Pearce, Webb instead of Hoddle and Waddle instead of Stevens, I knew we had a chance.
 
 
Waddle and Stevens both played, they played in different positions. I think you meant Trevor Steven.
"Magic Chris" was absolutely class though, although he had to leave England to be properly recognised as such.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 4:28pm
Originally posted by TonyNotJack TonyNotJack wrote:

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Mentality
Technique
Media
 
 

Still can't see this word without hearing it in Trap's accent.Will this ever stop? Smile


They often make terrible choices of manager :

Southgate (incredibly uninspired, son of Hodgson)
Allardyce (have a feeling he would have done really well, now we'll never know)
Hodgson (yawn)
Capello (didn't seem to give much of a flying fcuk bar collecting his over-inflated salary
Mcclaren (Complete clown)
Ericksson (competent but no more,lots of time chasing skirt for a man who looks like a bank manager)
Keegan (so bad he sacked himself)
Hoddle (Not bad but too weird)
Venables (Very good then sacked for possible off field shenanigans)
Taylor (completely out of his dept, got the job much too early) 
Robson (good but took him a long time and luck to get it right, not many would have got so much time)


That's their last 11 managers going back to 1982. An awful lot of bad choices among them.
Their media have destroyed their ability to get managers, they went all out to get Capello, I think he was the highest paid manager in the world at the time, but the damage had been done by the 'fake Sheikhs' and Sven. As the bigger clubs upped their managerial salary, why would anybody want to take the England job and have their credibility destroyed? Allardyce, who got the job as he was the only viable English candidate, proved this. Southgate has only got it by the two sweetest words in the English language; default.

I don't think they have always made the right or wrong choices, some of them have been good managers and many seemed, at the time of appointment at least, to be good choices, the problem is one of continuity. There seems to be a constant ripping up of the script and starting again for the senior team and not enough links with their underage squads. Even at the moment, when their teams have had a remarkable year at underage, you find yourself wondering how Aidy Boothroyd, straight from the 1970's, has developed these lads for future tournaments. He is a young Howard Wilkinson!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 4:43pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Gary McKay Gary McKay wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Managers picking Neil Webb ahead of Glenn Hoddle and Gordon Cowans ahead of Paul Gascoigne.
Little things like that.
When I saw the England team sheet in Stuttgart with Sansom instead of Pearce, Webb instead of Hoddle and Waddle instead of Stevens, I knew we had a chance. 
Waddle and Stevens both played, they played in different positions. I think you meant Trevor Steven.
"Magic Chris" was absolutely class though, although he had to leave England to be properly recognised as such.
Yes, I obviously meant Trevor Steven (Everton) who played on the right which is where Waddle played and not Gary Stevens (Everton) who played right full.
 
IMO Steven at that time was the best right-sided midfielder in England, much better than Waddle.
Houghton was probably the second best.
 
"Smalling and Jones.... have the potential to be the PL’s best ever pairing in my opinion." - SlurAlex
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 4:53pm
England went to Euro92 without a right full.
 
Lee Dixon and Gary Stevens were injured prior to the tournament.
 
Keith Curle and David Batty played right full in two of the games.
 
In the other Taylor played 3 centre backs with Carlton Palmer as sweeper LOL
 
 
"Smalling and Jones.... have the potential to be the PL’s best ever pairing in my opinion." - SlurAlex
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by Gary McKay Gary McKay wrote:

Originally posted by lassassinblanc lassassinblanc wrote:

The English go on about their victorious u20 Team winning the World Cup, how many of those will go on to gain full caps?

This.
 
But may change.
 
PS - Liverpool won the Double in 1986 and they didn't have a single player in the England squad at Mexico'86.


What?!

That's mental how Liverpool didn't have even one player in the England squad after winning a double.
Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 5:00pm
How many regular English starters did they have that season? One or two? I assume they had Grobelaar, Nicol, Hansen, Lawrenson, Whelan, Molby, Dalglish and Rush playing regularly and I have probably missed one or two.
What year was it they fielded a team of non-English players? 87?


Edited by pre Madonna - 03 Jul 2017 at 7:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by Gary McKay Gary McKay wrote:

Originally posted by lassassinblanc lassassinblanc wrote:

The English go on about their victorious u20 Team winning the World Cup, how many of those will go on to gain full caps?

This.
 
But may change.
 
PS - Liverpool won the Double in 1986 and they didn't have a single player in the England squad at Mexico'86.


What?!

That's mental how Liverpool didn't have even one player in the England squad after winning a double.


Yeah but they hardly had any English players.  Can't think of any.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 5:40pm
The team that won the double by beating Everton at Wembley had no English player, Steve McMahon was on the bench and the Aussie Craig Johnston was eligible, I think he had a B cap. I can't find the league game where they first did it, it was certainly around this time.

Edited by pre Madonna - 03 Jul 2017 at 5:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 5:50pm
All true enough, but even when England did pick players from successful Liverpool teams, it still did them no good, eg:
"The most players Liverpool have ever had in an England team was the six who faced Switzerland in Ron Greenwood's first match in charge in September 1977. Clemence, Phil Neal, McDermott, Hughes, Kennedy and Callaghan all started in the goalless draw."

A goalless draw...

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/five-liverpool-fc-players-set-6774183

https://www.11v11.com/matches/england-v-switzerland-07-september-1977-234393/

Edited by Territorial - 03 Jul 2017 at 5:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TonyNotJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

All true enough, but even when England did pick players from successful Liverpool teams, it still did them no good, eg:
"The most players Liverpool have ever had in an England team was the six who faced Switzerland in Ron Greenwood's first match in charge in September 1977. Clemence, Phil Neal, McDermott, Hughes, Kennedy and Callaghan all started in the goalless draw."

A goalless draw...

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/five-liverpool-fc-players-set-6774183

https://www.11v11.com/matches/england-v-switzerland-07-september-1977-234393/

 


Brian Clough should have been given the job in 1977 when he was at the height of his genius instead the clowns gave it to the ultimate FA yes-man. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 6:03pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

All true enough, but even when England did pick players from successful Liverpool teams, it still did them no good, eg:
"The most players Liverpool have ever had in an England team was the six who faced Switzerland in Ron Greenwood's first match in charge in September 1977. Clemence, Phil Neal, McDermott, Hughes, Kennedy and Callaghan all started in the goalless draw."

A goalless draw...

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/five-liverpool-fc-players-set-6774183

https://www.11v11.com/matches/england-v-switzerland-07-september-1977-234393/
So even in the late '70s and '80s, English football's top teams were kept there by technically superior foreigners like Arnold Muhren, Ricky Villa, Ossie Ardiles, Frans Thijssen, John Robertson,Tommy Gemmell,John Toshack, Kenny Dalglish, Steve Heighway and Ken McNaught?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 6:32pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

The team that won the double by beating Everton at Wembley had no English player, Steve McMahon was on the bench and the Aussie Craig Johnston was eligible, I think he had a B cap. I can't find the league game where they first did it, it was certainly around this time.

Correct.
4 Jocks
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1 Dane
1Aussie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 6:44pm
I thought Arry would have done a good job had he been given it in 2012.  First thing he would have done is got Nico Krancjar a fake English passport
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gashley Grimes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 7:00pm
Who cares?
 
If this lot were successful I'd have to move to the moon.
 
Could you imagine Sky Sports News/Gary Lineker/Clive Tyldesley etc if they won a trophy?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 7:08pm
Originally posted by Gashley Grimes Gashley Grimes wrote:

Who cares?
 
If this lot were successful I'd have to move to the moon.
 
Could you imagine Sky Sports News/Gary Lineker/Clive Tyldesley etc if they won a trophy?
 
 
I admit to getting annoyed by Tyldesley, the worst type of little Englander, but even I know I can mute him. Lineker seems quite likeable and SSN has just been a parody of itself for a long time now, although I haven't seen it since my last time in Ireland. Is it still a staple of Irish pubs for no apparent reason? I don't think you would have to move anywhere.
The reaction in Ireland and Scotland would be far worse, everyone would be going on about how much the English would be going on about it.


Edited by pre Madonna - 03 Jul 2017 at 7:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colemanY2K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2017 at 9:01pm
Bump...

Cleaning up at underage level this year. The latest achievement see's them crowned World Champions at u17 level this evening.

The question now is will they be able to transfer this unbelievable talent into the senior side over the next few years and lift a major trophy.

I take it what we are seeing is the fruits of their labour from St George's???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2017 at 9:12pm
To think they won the Final today without Sancho who is an exceptional talent! 

There was a great point made this evening in regard to Steve McManaman, he won his first England under 21 cap before he even played for Liverpool's first team and this was a common theme for years an years in England.

Take a quick scan through England's under 21 squad now and it's radically changed to where the vast majority of these players are starting regularly for their parent clubs or being loaned out to sides in The Championship.

They came 3rd this year in the under 21 tournament and only lost to Germany on penalties, so the penny has finally dropped. 
"He drives two Ferraris; I think he's a very lucky lad to have 50 caps for Ireland,"

Eamonn Dunphy on Glenn Whelan
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