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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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I'm not making any mistake, I can assure you that. There can often be inconsistencies outside the 'parameters', particularly in historical cases, but, regardless of that, the implications you have made, and others too, don't specify anythung like that and are extremely dangerous.
The mistake you are making is that you're assuming that someone who has lived a life of tall tales, theft and whatnot cannot be the victim of assault or harassment. There's an argument the two might actually be connected, people deal with these things in very different ways. It is absolutely fine to say you don't believe her, but to not believe her because of those things is a very dangerous step and pandering to patriarchal Republicanism. The rest is very possible, unquestionably, but that again doesn't mean nothing happened.
Edited by pre Madonna - 04 May 2020 at 12:20pm |
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Online Points: 10533 |
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But is it libertarianism descending into fascism, or fascists, who were always fascists self-applying a title that they felt provided a cloak of respectability while demanding the state intervene in numerous different ways, and in a manner totally incompatible with the philosophy itself.
Also, there are different wings of libertarianism which actually makes it impossible to generalise. Some wings would at least verge on nihilism, others take the existing systems and structures we have an aim to work within them. But the moment harm is caused to somebody else, it’s ceases to be libertarianism. |
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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I don't believe her because there's nothing remotely believable about her allegation, because there's nothing remotely believable about her character, and there's nothing remotely believable about the political context against which the allegation was made. |
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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And that is fine, but the implications made in your previous posts are what I find worrying. That women who have led their life a certain way can't be victims, or those that are inconsistent with their version of events can't be either. That was what was implied and the fact that it is being used by 'progressives' against a possible victim, regardless of the reality, will be used against other women in the future.
Every case must be, to go all Johnny Giles, judged on it's own merits there. |
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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You're the person who made thse implications. I judged the case on its merits. And now you're falling into the exact far right trap that was designed to ensnare people. |
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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I see Katie Halper went on Russia Today to push these allegations.
The whole thing is so f**king predictable. The dirtbag left literally always do the exact things you expect them to do. The dirtbag left are also completely silent about the litany of credible allegations against Trump, including him being named in a court filing in which he's alleged to have raped a 13 year old with Epstein. Halper, Greenwald, Taibbi, Krystal Ball and the rest are so transparently doing Russia's bidding for them.
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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Nope, you did by making those implications. Language is very important in these cases in the public domain, regardless of the lack of importance here, and you feel into the trap of generalizing. It is understandable, it can easily happen, but can, on the wrong platform, be quite dangerous.
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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Again, this is quite dangerous and falling into their trap. Because Trump is this or that, Biden can't have. Regardless of whose bidding it is, the agenda is obvious, that doesn't mean nothing happened. This tit for that politicking is exactly what the Republicans want, and yet this is what is going to happen. Katie Halper is also not on the left, unless she has changed positions recently. She is a liberal.
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Il Principe
Davey Langan Joined: 30 Mar 2012 Status: Offline Points: 961 |
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none of these very rational points will matter, polls are the biggest red herring, nobody says they will vote trump, like here no one admits to voting for the shinners. people who are into politics will know Biden, everybody in the states knows Trump, he only has to win a few key states, popular vote doesn't matter, celebrity rules imo this isn't about policy either, i hope trump gets beat but i think he wins bigger than 2016
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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I literally did the exact opposite of generalising, but sure carry on. |
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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Katie Halper is the very definition of the dirtbag left. And the point is the dirtbag left are not left at all. They're in thrall to Russia and doing the bidding of Russia, which is a far right mafia state, and therefore are doing the bidding of Trump. The fact that the allegation has completely fallen apart means it didn't happen. You've advanced bad faith arguments here right from the start of the exchange. |
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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Polls got it largely correct last time in terms of national vote. Trump will "win" because it'll be a fix. The US is already barely worthy of the word democracy. There will be no doubt that it isn't a democracy at all this time. There's a spectacular delusion here, and it's rampant among so called liberal media too. The Republicans are openly rigging things, Russia is openly interfering, and has a history of openly interfering in other countries' elections. Look what they did in Ukraine in 2004. That's the sort of template people need to be looking at. The central kernel of Russian foreign policy is to destroy the US and destroy the post World War II western order. They want to destroy the EU too, but destroying the US is their number one goal. And they're winning big so far. Russia is far right capitalist mafia state, being raped and bled dry by Putin and his mafia. Russia should be a deadly enemy of everybody who believes in free society, democracy or any sort of reasonable politics. Edited by sid waddell - 04 May 2020 at 2:43pm |
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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I don't know much about her, but she claims to liberal and not left. Just some two-bit comedian as far as I can so.
You have constantly used whataboutery and deflection while accusing me of doing the same. Everything has some reference to Trump while rarely, if ever, dealing with the matter at hand.
Edited by pre Madonna - 04 May 2020 at 2:43pm |
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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The language you used was of a general, rather than specific, nature. That is what I first pulled you up on, because it is dangerous. As is constantly referring to Trump, who is mentioning it and who isn't, rather than the matter at hand. Treat on its merits. I can accept your opinion, albeit you are expressing them as fact, but the manner you are doing is damaging to progression as a whole.
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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Again, I literally did the opposite of generalising. I examined the case on its merits - and the case is a farce. Same as the Neymar allegation last year. The problem is the allegation is designed specifically to play to ignorant generalisations which help to deny justice to real victims of rape and sexual assault. These false allegations do irreparable damage to real survivors of rape and sexual assault. If you examine the people in the public eye who are pushing this, they all use ignorant generalisations to demonise the #metoo movement. They don't refer to the facts of the allegation. They speak entirely in straw men and generalisations. They don't debate in good faith. You expect that from the Republicans because they're objectively scum. The point is the dirtbag left are doing it too. Look at Greenwald, Halper, Krystal Ball and all their other mini-mes. And look at who they're playing to. They're playing to Republicans and they're playing to Russia. I've little doubt that these people are not who they claim they are. They're complete grifters and publicity seekers who are out to distort public debate for their own gain. They're a half-step above Alex Jones for credibility. Edited by sid waddell - 04 May 2020 at 3:01pm |
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MC Hammered
Jack Charlton Joined: 05 Oct 2011 Status: Offline Points: 6863 |
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I notice that Alex Jones recently stated his readiness to eat his neighbours ass (his words).
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El Puto Amo
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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By saying she couldn't have been harassed/ assaulted because of inconsistencies in her story and in her life she could not be a victim,; that's a horrid assumption and generalisation.
To respond about what Trump did is whataboutery. To complain about who she told and where is deflection. Fine if you don't think it happened, but that's my issue. The rest is fluff and bluster that is irrelevant. I didn't even know Neymar had a case and it is irrelevant in any case. Whoever these people are playing to is irrelevant. A case like this is always going to be used for political point scoring and talking about these people and Russia is doing just that. The case is complex because of that, but simple it down and look at the actual evidence and not the protagonists and come to your conclusion. I think something happened but have no idea what while you know nothing happened.
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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You really don't get it. The allegation itself doesnt stand up. Reade has changed her story numerous times and completely contradicted herself materially - "this is not a story of sexual assault" suddenly changed to "this is not only a story about sexual assault". The non-existent complaint in 1993. And everything in the background is extremely relevant. The political context. Her bizarre pro-Russia opinions, which coincidentally only emerged at a time when she went bankrupt, and sexualised public admiration for Putin. Her copious deletion of what she has written online. Coached witnesses, coached by her and by a journalist. Her history of fraud, lies, and multiple sexual assault allegations, none of which went anywhere. Against all that, anybody clued in to US politics knew that an allegation of just this sort was coming. It didn't matter whether it was Biden, Sanders, Buttigieg, Beto O'Rourke, Elizabeth Warren, it wwas coming. It came as surely as night follows day. Pizzagate mark 2. And like everything pushed by the Republicans, pure projection. Trump is a rapist, therefore he attacks his opponent by pushing rape allegations against them. Trump was involved with a paedophile ring, therefore he accuses his opponent of being so. You may not like it, but all that is highly relevant. |
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