A United Ireland referendum

Tippbiffo wrote: irishmufc wrote: AntrimMan wrote: Tippbiffo wrote: My own feelings are that sport and politics should never be mixed. One of the dumbest phrases that can be trotted out. Your right lads

and YOU'RE wrong

Just as well, I don't think you could break into a field.

pre Madonna wrote: Just as well, I don't think you could break into a field.

ABFC wrote: What sort of town in Newcastle? Staunchly Nationalist?

A good place to bring up kids and a good place to die........ not a lot in between

(actually its really isn't a bad spot , if only the frankies would go elsewhere) though good bars are now few and far between

Being from there you probably really don't appreciate how picturequse it is

The Huntacha wrote: Lived with a lad from Ballymoney in Oz. He was mixed background. But it was strange, if another European asked him where he was from, he'd say he was Irish. Then if an Irish person asked him where he was from he'd say NI, and if a Brit asked him he'd say British, used to wreck my head  Used to have a good few chats with him about the whole thing and he definitely considered himself Northern Irish first. Seemed to have the same "them" and "us" attitude that a lot of people down here have so didnt really have an interest about re-unification.  Would anyone of the lads up north have many Unionist mate? Moderate ones I'm talking about now, not the nutters. If so, do they or would they ever identify as Irish?

It will only happen if all the parties in the North buy into resolving legacy and future issues, and clearly they are not, they are polar opposites.

There is waaay too many issues to deal with, even something like the OTR's is clearly a massive issue for Unionism.

The issues around parades, and even something basic and trivial as the democratic decision to fly the Union flag on City hall on designated days. The fact that this decision alone has caused such an outcry amongst the degenerate Loyalists shows how far Northern Ireland has got to go.

No matter happens Unionism will always feel that the Union is under thread from Nationalists and more importantly Republicans and will be very sceptical about anything and everything.

It's a bottomless pit of issues and far too many to discuss.

dunloybhoy wrote: Wee James wrote: Dunloy i was going with a girl from antrim last year and was nearly embarressed about how little i knew about the north in reality, but compared to my friends i was  gerry adams, its shocking how little they know or seem to care, i asked my ex did she think she ever see a united ireland and she didnt think so in her lifetime,my opinion would be in 30 or 40 years time it will be even less likely, would you agree? i dont see one occurring in the near future. Theres still an older loyalist/unionist element who have no wish to move forward. They see things like flags, parades, poppies etc as extremely important things in their lives that political parties like the DUP should be focusing on. Truth be told its these old style parties like the DUP/UUP/TUV that play on the fears of unionist and talk nonsense like 'erosion of protestant culture' and guff like that. I work in East Belfast and trust me the unionist culture is alive and well here! there's no one getting rid of it  Seriously though theres still an unwillingness from unionists to move on. A lot still wont accept that Sinn Fein are anything other than the political wing of the IRA even though the IRA ceased to exist quite some time ago. The past is holding unionism back whereas nationalists are now comfortable to look forward to a future where they wont have to endure the discrimination and hatred that existed in the 70's.  Will we see a border poll? no. the DUP and UUP would block any chance of it even getting to a referendum for the fear of Christ that it would be close

That is not a notion confined to the north, lazy retort of government politicians who don't feel like answering hard questions usually.

The main problem, as I see it, is that Sinn Fein in the North do not sufficiently understand the concerns of unionists and loyalists and are never proactive in dealing with them, instead preferring to rile them. I mean, the flegs dispute was brought about, originally, by a bit of political pointscoring, to hell with what the loyalists thought. I'm not saying that Sinn Fein were wrong in seeking to limit the amount of Union Jack flying, I'm just saying they did it without any regard to the effect. What Sinn Fein need to do is try to demonstrate to the unionists, loyalists and protestants that unionists, loyalists and protestants will not be marginalised and discriminated against in a united Ireland. They don't do that, at all, or even try to, as far as I can see. Everyone needs to avoid triumphalism.

The Tory policy towards Ireland prior to the rising was summed up by some with the phrase "kill it with kindness" (I'm not saying it was necessarily true, I'm saying it was characterised by some people as that). That's what Sinn Fein in the North should try to do to Unionism and Loyalism. I'm not saying roll over and give them everything they want, I'm certainly not saying they should pander to the whims of Unionist politicians (who can be an odious bunch, especially the likes of the TUV), or that they should disregard their own constituents, but they should certainly try to project more of a positive, inclusive vision of what republicanism can be, without being sectarian or even overly nationalist. Loyalists in the North need to be convinced of the merits of a secular, not sectarian, republican ideology before they can be convinced of the merits of a nationalist united Ireland. Nationalism should certainly be the smaller of the two ideologies if you want to convince loyalists of the benefits of republicanism. Republicanism doesn't need to be nationalist.

It's not even that you need to turn them to your own side, it's that you need to convince them that they won't be discriminated against such that they would lash out to violence. You need to convince sufficient numbers so that if a minority do turn to violence, they would not have any major degree of support from the majority. If you could convince a good solid 60 to 70% of the loyalists and unionists in the North that a secular, republican, united Ireland would not discriminate against them in any way, and would treat them as equal citizens, even if they wouldn't vote for it, even if they wouldn't vote for those parties, you stand a good chance of them not engaging in violence and a good chance that the vast majority of them won't tacitly endorse violence or violent separatism. There were many nationalists in the North who were not in the IRA and who would never have engaged in violence themselves but who were fed up with discrimination and sympathetic to the cause of the IRA and the way they were going about things. Certainly, there were very few nationalists, at the height of the troubles, actively opposed to the IRA. It's the silent unionists and loyalists you need to convince. That's what needs to be done and it's not what Sinn Fein in the North have ever tried to do, as far as I can see. It's a prerequisite for a non-violent transition to a united Ireland but I don't see it happening any time soon.

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not anti-Sinn Fein or anti-nationalism, I just think a different approach is necessary for a united Ireland to come to pass. Inclusivity rather than an "us and them" mentality is necessary and that has not been a Sinn Fein policy.

Really? It wouldn't be my impression of them, anyway.