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The Decline of the EPL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Devrozex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by FrankosHereNow FrankosHereNow wrote:

Originally posted by Gary McKay Gary McKay wrote:

Originally posted by eireland eireland wrote:

I'd love if all English teams were kept apart by the draw end they all won. There would be meltdowns across Europe. 
Three English teams in the semis in 09 and Barcelona won it.

As much as I loved that Barca team, Chelsea were absolutely robbed in the Semi Final.
 
Essien's goal in that game was one of the all time great CL goals. Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 2:03pm
In fairness, Chelsea did their fair share of cheating and diving especially that Drogba kunt. Karma.
"Smalling and Jones.... have the potential to be the PL’s best ever pairing in my opinion." - SlurAlex
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 2:04pm
Originally posted by Devrozex Devrozex wrote:

Essien's goal in that game was one of the all time great CL goals. Clap
So was Iniesta’s 😆
"Smalling and Jones.... have the potential to be the PL’s best ever pairing in my opinion." - SlurAlex
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 2:09pm
Originally posted by eireland eireland wrote:

I'd love if all English teams were kept apart by the draw end they all won. There would be meltdowns across Europe. 
I would argue that neither of the Manchester based teams or Liverpool are English. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by Double Maxim Double Maxim wrote:

Champions League quarter-finals: Are English teams the new dominant force in Europe? 
 

Its the first time in ten seasons that four teams from one country will compete in the last eight of the Champions League got to be a good reflection on the EPL.

I'd love to see Man city win it.

What the EPL have done in the last few years is attract the best managers in the world.
That’s made a huge difference.
And of course the TV money! 

Obviously the money and the managers are vital. But if the PL is going to dominate Europe from here, which I think they can*, there's really more to it than that.

For English clubs have in the main had more money than the continentals for a couple of decades now. So when they still lagged behind, they started signing top foreign players in big numbers, in the assumption that that would do the trick. It didn't.

Now, a decade or two later they're beginning to sign top foreign managers, and that is surely making a difference, but it is as much correlation as causation (imo).

For the point must surely be that in order to compete consistently with the likes of Barca, Juve and Bayern etc, money for players and managers is not enough. You need a whole infrastructure to support them - stadia; training facilities; coaches; medical/sports science; data analytics; scouting/recruitment; youth/academy; Owners, Directors, Executive and (Corporate) Management and a whole lot more (Finance, Sponsors, Media, PR etc). 

Considering the size of leading clubs these days, it is a very complex and long-term project (to use Pep's favourite word) to get all this right, and certainly a world away from the old school of appointing a Ferguson or Wenger and letting them get on with it.

But as I say, the signs are that the top clubs are getting this right, which is why they can now attract the top managers. Otherwise, why else would any manager risk his hard-earned reputation by moving to a lesser club in another country, where he had no chance of competing with what he had left behind?

Of course, the big continental clubs are not suddenly going to wither in the face of a resurgence by PL clubs, no matter how well financed the latter may be.

But if in the past couple of decades, if the PL has struggled to get one or two of their members into the top dozen elite clubs throughout Europe, I can see them making up to half a dozen in the near future, with progress only being constrained by the limit on the number of places in the CL and EL.

And should that happen, the pressure to form a breakaway European Premier League will gain increasing support from England.



* - Not guaranteed, of course


Edited by Territorial - 14 Mar 2019 at 3:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrendanD88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

The new generation of Bayern player is far below Champions League-winning standard. Gnabry and Sanchez couldn't break into lesser teams in the Premier League, Coman, James are well below superstar standard, Ribery, Lewondowski far beyond their best.

Budenesliga while still entertaining, would struggle to make top 6 in England at the moment
 
A career made on a wonder goal in the world cup

He was the best player at that World Cup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 4:44pm
Commentator mentioned James decline since that World Cup.

I wouldnt mind playing for Madrid and Munich in my decline.
"Smalling and Jones.... have the potential to be the PL’s best ever pairing in my opinion." - SlurAlex
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eireland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 5:50pm
Originally posted by FrankosHereNow FrankosHereNow wrote:

Originally posted by Gary McKay Gary McKay wrote:

Originally posted by eireland eireland wrote:

I'd love if all English teams were kept apart by the draw end they all won. There would be meltdowns across Europe. 
Three English teams in the semis in 09 and Barcelona won it.

As much as I loved that Barca team, Chelsea were absolutely robbed in the Semi Final.
Uefalona were in full force that year. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 5:59pm
Originally posted by Gary McKay Gary McKay wrote:

Commentator mentioned James decline since that World Cup.

I wouldnt mind playing for Madrid and Munich in my decline.
Bayern might sign him permanently, but that's probably because ZZ absolutely doesn't want him back, so RM might sell him cheap.

Bayern fans don't appear v.chuffed at the prospect, mind:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 9:30am
Originally posted by eireland eireland wrote:

Originally posted by FrankosHereNow FrankosHereNow wrote:

Originally posted by Gary McKay Gary McKay wrote:

Originally posted by eireland eireland wrote:

I'd love if all English teams were kept apart by the draw end they all won. There would be meltdowns across Europe. 
Three English teams in the semis in 09 and Barcelona won it.
As much as I loved that Barca team, Chelsea were absolutely robbed in the Semi Final.
Uefalona were in full force that year. 
ClapClapClap
Glad someone stepped in to protect the good people from the horrible beast.
 
"Smalling and Jones.... have the potential to be the PL’s best ever pairing in my opinion." - SlurAlex
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Double Maxim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2019 at 6:44am
A plot against the EPL?
 
 
Champions League: Premier League clubs oppose proposed changes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47831796
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Double Maxim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 9:53am
Four English teams are set to play in Champions League quarter-finals this week - a feat never achieved by any other nation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zinedine Kilbane 110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 10:20am
Originally posted by Double Maxim Double Maxim wrote:

Four English teams are set to play in Champions League quarter-finals this week - a feat never achieved by any other nation.

Last 10 years

Spain       7 wins
Germany  1
Italy         1
England    1

England last dominated around 40 years ago. 
Even around the 00’s when the teams got to lots of 1/2 finals they only won it twice.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 10:46am
There’s only ten teams that have any genuine hope of winning it and half of them play their home games in England( I think there’s a debate as to how English they are), four in the quarter-finals is hardly a surprise. The only surprise was Manchester United beating one of the other small group of potential winners.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FrankosHereNow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 11:16am
Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by Double Maxim Double Maxim wrote:

Four English teams are set to play in Champions League quarter-finals this week - a feat never achieved by any other nation.

Last 10 years

Spain       7 wins
Germany  1
Italy         1
England    1

England last dominated around 40 years ago. 
Even around the 00’s when the teams got to lots of 1/2 finals they only won it twice.


Spain last 5 Champions League & 4 of last 5 Europa League. Total domination.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperDave84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 1:37pm
Originally posted by FrankosHereNow FrankosHereNow wrote:

Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by Double Maxim Double Maxim wrote:

Four English teams are set to play in Champions League quarter-finals this week - a feat never achieved by any other nation.

Last 10 years

Spain       7 wins
Germany  1
Italy         1
England    1

England last dominated around 40 years ago. 
Even around the 00’s when the teams got to lots of 1/2 finals they only won it twice.


Spain last 5 Champions League & 4 of last 5 Europa League. Total domination.


The UEFA coefficient would back this up. Spain are not only top on the rolling five year coefficient, but they have been the top league for five of the last seven seasons and are top so far this season (though England are likely to finish top this season seeing as they are only a fraction behind and have twice as many teams left).

Last season was the first time England finished top of the ranking since 2008-09.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by FrankosHereNow FrankosHereNow wrote:

Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by Double Maxim Double Maxim wrote:

Four English teams are set to play in Champions League quarter-finals this week - a feat never achieved by any other nation.

Last 10 years

Spain       7 wins
Germany  1
Italy         1
England    1

England last dominated around 40 years ago. 
Even around the 00’s when the teams got to lots of 1/2 finals they only won it twice.


Spain last 5 Champions League & 4 of last 5 Europa League. Total domination.
True enough, but there's evidence that that's changing, as the PL finally gets its act together in maximising its financial superiority.

Not only that, but up to now, the PL's TV money was much more evenly split amongst all 20 clubs than was the case in comparable leagues. Which was why the two or three teams in Spain, Germany, Italy and France etc are able to dominate their domestic leagues with ease before concentrating on Europe.

But afaik, there will be a redistribution of TV money in England from next year, which means the top clubs will get a bigger share, which should mean they'll be even stronger over the rest than they already are.

Which should worry the sh*t out of the continentals and make their plans for a (closed shop) European Super League ever more critical. I mean, what other country can seriously hope to sustain a "Big Six", all with huge economic muscle, top stadia and big support etc?

And talking of a Big Six, England has produced 5 separate winners of the European Cup/CL, plus two more beaten finalists, and an 8th team (Spurs in 1962) who were the best in Europe that year, but were denied in the semi-final by some outrageous decisions by a bribed referee. No other country even comes close to having that breadth of quality.

The tide looks to be turning and I don't see anything ahead to stop it.


Edited by Territorial - 09 Apr 2019 at 2:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperDave84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 2:31pm
They are going to continue to share the domestic TV revenue in the same way (50% equal payments, 25% performance related, 25% related to how many times you are on TV, with a minimum and maximum number of televised games for each club) but previously international revenue was just split 20 ways. It's the international revenue breakdown that has changed. Basically, any increase in international revenue over the old 2016-2019 deal will be performance related, but with a ratio cap of 1.8/1 so that the top club will never receive more than 80% more than the bottom club in the league. At the minute the ratio works out at 1.6/1, so it is only a marginal improvement for the top clubs, but it will be an improvement all the same.
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