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The disgraced John Delaney

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forza trapp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2019 at 9:10pm
Had a very interesting chat with a committee member in the IRFU at the weekend. The Rugby boys have really never trusted JD or indeed the FAI in relation to Lansdowne and there had always been a feeling the FAI could default on the payments. He told me the IRFU have a cash reserve to step in if this happens.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OohAah... Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2019 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

cheers Dave.

But i still don't see the basic benefit financially. How much was spent, what was the size of the loan, what is the interest. 

I don't want you to answer these ofcourse, but if you compare all that money that was spent to what the cost of rent would've been I'd wonder if the 2 figures would be comparable.

This idea of part owning to me seems to be an excercise in words. They own a lease. When the lease expires they own nothing. They've only spent money 

 A land leasehold in an apartment say, is in the region of hundreds of years .not 60.

Now if the plan was to clear the loan, then save money and offer to buy half off the irfu in 60 years then maybe I could understand. But it's a gamble.

Besides my whole pint here is probably bollox anyway cos will the stadium not be delapidated in 60 years anyway


Yeah, that's what I was about to say.

Anyone who builds a stadium knows that it only has a certain lifespan before it needs to be torn to the ground & started again. That is probably in the region of 50 years but who knows.

It could make sense to pay rent for that period but with inflation etc probably not. Like if the rent was €1m a game, or thereabouts, six games a year, that's €300m over the course of 50 years. The FAI's contribution was a lot less than that (around €110m iirc) and even with interest costs should work out at less than €200m, being conservative.

The €1m figure was that bandied about at the time of games in Croke Park which, while it is a bigger stadium, was 10 years ago, so I'd only imagine the rental costs for the Aviva today would be higher.

That would make sense explained like that alright.

But let's take the figure of 1 million rent. In that scenario Id  say the fai take all the gate receipts.

However in our current scenario do fai not give half of theirs to the irfu?

So that figure has come down now from 300 million to 150 million. Nearer to the 110 mark .Comparable. 

I honestly don't know the details to be honest but, the fact the fai made such a big deal about been part owners, when it's a trick of words as it turned out to be a lease.

Edited this above, I don't know enough details to be honest so am only speculating




Edited by OohAah... - 15 May 2019 at 9:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote inlikeflynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2019 at 9:34pm
Originally posted by wanderer wanderer wrote:

Originally posted by inlikeflynn inlikeflynn wrote:

Does Irish football need the FAI?

The Irish national team will continue to exist if the association should fail. As will the clubs in the leagues. 

I'm struggling to see what the issue would be if the whole dirty lot were wound up tomorrow and something new be put in its place. I don't care if we are tenants in Lansdowne. I can't see much difference, beyond the stadium being a different building, to how things were before being co-owners. 

Sell it off, clear the debts and start again with a new organisation which puts fans and national clubs first!

This isn't a smart question now but genuinely how would a national team and all its underage sides continue to run without an association? You can't just wind up and replace something like this as easy as that 

It needs an association, and a level of organisation, but does it need to be the FAI? I'm just thinking about it. You could pass the whole lot over to another body and the national teams would still exist, as would the club sides.

I know that reform of the existing structures will probably be best, as there is a lot of technical knowledge within the FAI. But they are probably the least important element of the active football setup. 

I'm starting to think about FAI badges on the Ireland jersey, and think they've got a cheek to put their name on there. The Ireland team is much more than the FAI. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eireland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2019 at 10:02pm
Originally posted by Claret Murph Claret Murph wrote:

200 lay offs , mad stuff what will be left two cleaners and the guy who runs the car park .
And JD on his new salary of 1 million a year. He was previously triple jobbing but now he'll be doing 200 jobs.

Anyway we have hit an all time low. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperDave84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2019 at 10:24pm
Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

cheers Dave.

But i still don't see the basic benefit financially. How much was spent, what was the size of the loan, what is the interest. 

I don't want you to answer these ofcourse, but if you compare all that money that was spent to what the cost of rent would've been I'd wonder if the 2 figures would be comparable.

This idea of part owning to me seems to be an excercise in words. They own a lease. When the lease expires they own nothing. They've only spent money 

 A land leasehold in an apartment say, is in the region of hundreds of years .not 60.

Now if the plan was to clear the loan, then save money and offer to buy half off the irfu in 60 years then maybe I could understand. But it's a gamble.

Besides my whole pint here is probably bollox anyway cos will the stadium not be delapidated in 60 years anyway


Yeah, that's what I was about to say.

Anyone who builds a stadium knows that it only has a certain lifespan before it needs to be torn to the ground & started again. That is probably in the region of 50 years but who knows.

It could make sense to pay rent for that period but with inflation etc probably not. Like if the rent was €1m a game, or thereabouts, six games a year, that's €300m over the course of 50 years. The FAI's contribution was a lot less than that (around €110m iirc) and even with interest costs should work out at less than €200m, being conservative.

The €1m figure was that bandied about at the time of games in Croke Park which, while it is a bigger stadium, was 10 years ago, so I'd only imagine the rental costs for the Aviva today would be higher.

That would make sense explained like that alright.

But let's take the figure of 1 million rent. In that scenario Id  say the fai take all the gate receipts.

However in our current scenario do fai not give half of theirs to the irfu?

So that figure has come down now from 300 million to 150 million. Nearer to the 110 mark .Comparable. 

I honestly don't know the details to be honest but, the fact the fai made such a big deal about been part owners, when it's a trick of words as it turned out to be a lease.

Edited this above, I don't know enough details to be honest so am only speculating




I don't think so. For example, the IRFU paid their share of the development costs with a reasonably priced 10 year ticket plan for the middle tier - they didn't share that with the FAI. I can only presume, on that precedent, that the same holds for the FAI and that they keep all their ticket revenue too.

It all depends on the text of the co-ownership agreement but based on the facts as known, it appears that each side keeps their own gate money.

The FAI are part owners of the stadium for basically the entirety of its usable life - while it is only a leasehold interest, after 50 years it'll be close to needing knocked and rebuilt anyway.

And whatever of the maths maybe not making sense ten years ago, the key fact is that they make sense today. Look at it like this:

You have two choices:
You can pay €100m to contribute to a stadium and with interest on the debt, it'll cost you something like €150m, and it'll be good for fifty years, and you host about six games a year.

Or

You can pay €500k a game rent on the same stadium, when finished, for fifty years.

Those are, allowing for inflation, basically equal options... in each case, it costs you €500k a game (in the first example, €150m for 300 games, in the second €500k per game, same difference).

BUT, take the position after ten years, assuming you pick option A:

At that stage, you have paid off €130m of the €150m (for the sake of argument here - they absolute key point is that you have paid off the majority of the debt). You are then given two options:

Continue to pay down your debt of €20m OR take a cash sum now but then pay €500k a game for the rent for the stadium.

€500k per game x 6 games x 40 years = a hell of a lot more than the €30m left on the debt. So it would all depend on the sum offered for the interest in the stadium.

HOWEVER, there are quite a few problems with selling the interest in the stadium. The first is the loss of security it gives you. The second is the fact that you end up with the worst of both worlds, in having paid a lot of interest but ending up with nothing to show for it. The third is that you are a distressed seller which results in you receiving a lower price. The fourth is that there is only one clear buyer.

In the example above, selling the interest in the stadium for anything less than €100m (seeing as that would give you the net position of having paid €30m for the ten year use of the stadium) would be absolutely bonkers, and there is no way that sort of sum is going to be forthcoming, given the difficulties outlined above.

It will hopefully not be considered by the FAI but the fact is, if they do sell their interest in the Aviva to cover short term cashflow issues, they will not get near what it is worth, never mind what it will be worth in income in the future.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OohAah... Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2019 at 10:51pm
cheers Dave .Explained like that yeh makes sense

Big issue I have is with their use of the word coownership over and over again. It's a typical JD use of words. It's suggests everything is split between fai and irfu. When essentially it isn't

Also we will never find out the exact detail of the contract I'm sure and I'd be surprised if it's not in the irfus favour



Edited by OohAah... - 15 May 2019 at 10:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deise316 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2019 at 11:22pm
Indo reporting that UEFA are bailing out the FAI to the tune of 8 million. Or roughly, a little bit more than what JD earned (well, that we know of at the moment anyway) since becoming CEO/Executive Vice President/Horticulturalist. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lenny82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2019 at 11:23pm
The IRFU won't be buying out their interest. Sure there are no other suitable tenants, unless they get permission to host 6 extra major concerts per year.

The FAI got a very good deal. €1m per game rent is a fair assumption. Could be twice that in another 10 years though without the current leasehold interest.


Edited by Lenny82 - 15 May 2019 at 11:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 2:47am
Originally posted by deise316 deise316 wrote:

Indo reporting that UEFA are bailing out the FAI to the tune of 8 million. Or roughly, a little bit more than what JD earned (well, that we know of at the moment anyway) since becoming CEO/Executive Vice President/Horticulturalist. 



8 million. It really is sickening. I hope that snake gets ran out of the country.
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eireland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 3:34am
Originally posted by deise316 deise316 wrote:

Indo reporting that UEFA are bailing out the FAI to the tune of 8 million. Or roughly, a little bit more than what JD earned (well, that we know of at the moment anyway) since becoming CEO/Executive Vice President/Horticulturalist. 



HOLY f**kING sh*t. I presume the FAI will have to pay this loan back at some point. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlton's Child Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 7:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wanderer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 7:09am
Said it only yesterday that UEFA and FIFA would step in to keep the show on the road and here we are. A sad state of affairs that it's even come to this. Nothing is even reslly a shock when it's comes out anymore.

I presume next they'll appoint their own personnel, it's helped other associations before that were in difficulty. 


Edited by wanderer - 16 May 2019 at 7:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shoco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 7:13am
Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

cheers Dave .Explained like that yeh makes sense

Big issue I have is with their use of the word coownership over and over again. It's a typical JD use of words. It's suggests everything is split between fai and irfu. When essentially it isn't

Also we will never find out the exact detail of the contract I'm sure and I'd be surprised if it's not in the irfus favour



But it is split as they are co-owners.

Any events, use of corporate suites, concerts, basically anything outside of football/rugby matches is split between the associations.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liam_in_germany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 7:27am
There has to be a massive choreo against him at the next home game. A massive banner from the top tier down. Must b e kept on the qt. Also as many flares and smoke bombs that we can get
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gabrieléire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 8:11am
Originally posted by liam_in_germany liam_in_germany wrote:

There has to be a massive choreo against him at the next home game. A massive banner from the top tier down. Must be kept on the qt. Also as many flares and smoke bombs that we can get

Happy days, keep it on the qt. Great start posting it on here. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RogerMilla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 8:47am
FIFA come in to prop them up , well that was always on the cards. 
the FAI will take their cash and maybe FIFA will never ask for it back .
all leverage that sportireland had has been reduced now 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reddladd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 9:43am
Delaney should be hung out to dry but he probably won't purely down to the fact that many others were complicit so I would imagine there would be a huge fallout. Look at the accountancy firm who only discovers issues after the whole thing blew up.

They weren't doing their job properly or these problems would have come to light earlier.

Maybe people will be just happy to see him gone but if we want to do something about this type of corruption then you have to start somewhere. Delaney should be made an example of and enough evidence has come to light to do that if there's a will.

There should definately be a protest from fans at the next couple of Ireland games. A couple of more innovative chants would be great instead of f**k Delaney and the FAI.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OohAah... Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 9:51am
Originally posted by Shoco Shoco wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

cheers Dave .Explained like that yeh makes sense

Big issue I have is with their use of the word coownership over and over again. It's a typical JD use of words. It's suggests everything is split between fai and irfu. When essentially it isn't

Also we will never find out the exact detail of the contract I'm sure and I'd be surprised if it's not in the irfus favour



But it is split as they are co-owners.

Any events, use of corporate suites, concerts, basically anything outside of football/rugby matches is split between the associations.

Is this fact? I find it hard to believe
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