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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 10:40am
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

My point PM isn't really about racism. Ireland has a difficult past when it comes to social marginalisation, and we can be prone to forgetting the sins of the past when it comes to our treatment of people who needed it most. Hence, I think Ireland should dismiss its own views about a lack prevalence of racism, simply because we have an incredibly difficult history with difference and diversity. To that extent, I very much take you point about the way Ireland views itself.

But my point was generally about the way Ireland treats its poor, as opposed to marginalisation which is increased by, and a product of intersectionality.
I know you are coming at it from a reasonably good place, even if we disagree, but I think there's a different kind of nationalism that has swept in recently that absolved and dismisses all our faults and that is present now in nearly all sociological aspects of our society. We have gone from playing ourselves down to being arrogant and cocky to the point where we dismiss all criticism, be it on racism, poverty, class, religion etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MC Hammered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 11:42am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 1:51pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I know you are coming at it from a reasonably good place, even if we disagree, but I think there's a different kind of nationalism that has swept in recently that absolved and dismisses all our faults and that is present now in nearly all sociological aspects of our society. We have gone from playing ourselves down to being arrogant and cocky to the point where we dismiss all criticism, be it on racism, poverty, class, religion etc.

I'd agree that it is more influential than the Irish like to give itself credit for, and one of the things that aids and abets that is our view of the dumpster fire that is British Politics, and indeed the behaviours of the ruling party. "We're not like them", so as a result we can convince ourselves that we are a wonderful little nation, but there are mentalities and viewpoints that bubble beneath the surface, and have become more visible at a more obvious level since Trump's election. Years ago, you'd have a few cranks who would campaign on issues of immigration etc, but now there are entire political parties and movements filling the void, and that's a sad representation of where Ireland has gone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 2:14pm
What is the punishment for a capital murder in Ireland? 40 years is it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cliffrichard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

What is the punishment for a capital murder in Ireland? 40 years is it?

Yep Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irish_major Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 4:38pm
Delighted to see him go down as I'm convinced he did it. Evidence was weak though imo and I think I'd have had a tough time convicting him if I was on the Jury. Hopefully they can nail the rest of them now too
Here we go again
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigStrongMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

What is the punishment for a capital murder in Ireland? 40 years is it?
But it happened in Louth not Dublin?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 5:05pm
Originally posted by irish_major irish_major wrote:

Delighted to see him go down as I'm convinced he did it. Evidence was weak though imo and I think I'd have had a tough time convicting him if I was on the Jury. Hopefully they can nail the rest of them now too

Honestly, I think there is enough reasonable doubt not to convict. 

The main witness says the shooter was at least 6 foot tall, Brady is 5 foot 7. 

Mr Cahill's testimony sounds very dodgy, almost like he is trying to hide something and his situation in the US is very peculiar.

In saying that I still think it probably was him, I just think there is enough reasonable doubt to say that it might not have been.

___

Key witness in Garda Donohoe trial 'might have had a lot of motives to make things up', defence say

The “most significant” witness in the trial of the man accused of murdering Detective Garda Adrian Donohoe “might have had a lot of motives to make things up”, a barrister has told the Special Criminal Court. Michael O’Higgins SC, for Aaron Brady, told the jury of six men and seven women that the background to Daniel Cahill giving evidence was “shrouded in mystery” and that he may have been subjected to threats or inducement by Homeland Security before speaking to gardai. Mr Cahill has told the trial that he heard Mr Brady admit to killing a garda on three occasions. Mr Cahill also revealed that he spoke to gardai in New York after Homeland Security agents came to his home in circumstances where he had overstayed his 90-day visa waiver by several years.

In his closing speech to the jury, Mr O’Higgins also criticised the garda investigation, accusing investigators of closing their eyes to evidence and burying their heads in the sand over evidence that his client was laundering diesel at the time Det Gda Donohoe was shot. Aaron Brady (29) from New Road, Crossmaglen, Co Armagh has pleaded not guilty to the capital murder of Det Gda Adrian Donohoe who was then a member of An Garda Siochana on active duty on January 25, 2013 at Lordship Credit Union, Bellurgan, Co Louth. Mr Brady has also pleaded not guilty to a charge of robbing approximately €7,000 in cash and assorted cheques on the same date and at the same location. Mr O’Higgins said he wanted to start with Mr Cahill’s evidence, which he said was the “most significant evidence in the case”.

Counsel asked the jury to consider why, five years after Mr Cahill first claimed to have heard a confession from Aaron Brady, he “falls out of the sky with this evidence” on July 25, 2019 when he gave his first statement to gardai. Mr O’Higgins reminded the jury that Mr Cahill told them that he gave evidence because he wanted justice for Detective Garda Donohoe, his family and for the Irish justice system. Counsel said: “The first thing I want to do is stress test that claim.” Mr O’Higgins said the witness had claimed to know nothing of the murder of Det Gda Donohoe even after he heard Mr Brady make his alleged confessions. Counsel said: “Maybe it’s possible to ignore it the first time and not take it seriously, put it down to drunken rambling, but then there’s the second time. In the internet age would you be mildly curious enough to even google the event. Daniel Cahill didn’t. Didn’t do it after the third or the fourth time. Does that sound to you like someone with a burning desire to do justice?” Mr O’Higgins questioned why the witness did not tell any of his friends in the New York police, who he practiced jiu jitsu with every week, his wife or anyone else. In his testimony, Mr Cahill said that he met a number of gardai on St Patrick’s Day 2017 who were talking about Det Gda Donohoe and Aaron Brady. Mr Cahill said that he told the gardai present that Aaron Brady had admitted to him that he killed a garda. Mr O’Higgins suggested this was a lie told by Mr Cahill because he needed to explain why he hadn’t spoken about the alleged confession for so many years.

Had the conversation taken place, counsel said, the gardai who heard it would have taken Mr Cahill’s details, passed the information up the line until it got to the investigation team and a detective would have taken the next flight to New York to speak to Mr Cahill. “None of that happened,” counsel said, “and it didn’t happen because the conversation was completely invented.” Mr O’Higgins said the catalyst for Mr Cahill coming forward was “an early morning knock on the door” from eight or nine members of Homeland Security, including an enforcement and removal officer. When this happened, counsel said, Mr Cahill “had an unusual reaction. He took himself off to the attic, naked, and stayed there for a number of hours.” Homeland Security found Mr Cahill and in their search discovered a cannabis plant and steroids. Mr O’Higgins questioned how, in those circumstances, no charges were brought against Mr Cahill in relation to the cannabis and steroids and, despite being a visa overstayer who had not filled out the paperwork to apply for status to remain, Mr Cahill was released. He reminded them of the evidence of Kerry Bretz, who said that in his 30 years as an immigration lawyer in the US he had never seen that happen.

Mr O’Higgins suggested that Mr Cahill “might have had a lot of motives to make things up”. Counsel further asked the jury to consider whether it is normal that, during the trial, Homeland Security refused to answer questions about Mr Cahill’s immigration status or what was said to him when he was detained. Counsel reminded the jury that Special Agent Mary Ann Wade would not answer questions about Mr Cahill’s immigration status or whether he was arrested. He questioned why the Director of Public Prosecutions allowed the witness to dictate what questions she would answer and asked the jury to imagine the gardai in similar circumstances, refusing to say if Mr Cahill was arrested and refusing to answer questions about his detention. Mr O’Higgins suggested Mr Cahill was subjected to “inducement, and its Siamese twin, threat.” He added: “You have a situation which is unprecedented that witnesses will come in here and say, here’s what’s on and off the agenda.” He said such an approach rewrites the rules of a criminal trial in a “radical and unprecedented” way and would be something you might expect to see in a “tinpot dictatorship”.

Counsel also asked the jury whether Mr Cahill was credible in his description of a walk he went on with members of the 32-County Sovereignty Committee, during which he posed for a photo unfurling a banner with Vincent Ryan, a dissident republican who was shot dead in 2018. Mr Cahill described it as a community sponsored walk. Counsel asked the jury if, having heard that story, they would buy a used car from Mr Cahill. If they wouldn’t, he asked: “How could you rely on him for something that is 1,000 times more important?” Mr O’Higgins also reminded the jury that Mr Cahill was pictured with Dean Evans 16 days after Det Gda Donohoe was shot dead and 24 days before Mr Evans murdered Peter Butterly outside the Huntsman Inn in Gormanston, Co Meath. He said the photograph was introduced by the defence not to visit Dean Evans’s bad character on Mr Cahill, but to call into question his claim that he did not follow the news and did not hear of the shooting of Det Gda Donohoe until years later. He said: “If you are hanging around that milieu of people committing those types of crimes, often in the name of Republican activities, the fact that a garda gets shot is a talking point.” Mr O’Higgins further questioned where Mr Cahill learned his court etiquette, asking: “Did it cross your mind that this was a witness who had been prepared? Who was well aware there would be questions about unfurling banners with the 32 County Sovereignty Committee.” He asked whether Mr Cahill’s statement that he was there for justice was a “prepared answer, a soundbite that would inhibit further cross examination.” He urged the jury not to rely on Mr Cahill’s evidence unless they are satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that he is telling the truth.

Molly Staunton told the trial that she was in Mr Brady’s New York apartment where she heard him say he had “shot a cop” in Ireland and was one of the most feared men in Ireland. Mr O’Higgins reminded the jury that under cross-examination, Ms Staunton gave a different account, saying that Mr Brady was upset that he was being linked with the shooting but not that he had carried it out. When prosecution counsel Brendan Grehan showed her a video of her statement to gardai, she went back to her original position, counsel said. Mr O’Higgins described Ms Staunton as a witness “who is swinging right to left to right” and said her testimony was unreliable. Dealing with the defence case, Mr O’Higgins said there is evidence that his client was laundering diesel on the night Det Gda Donohoe was shot. Mr Brady had described his activities in text messages to his then girlfriend Jessica King and there was evidence that a trailer was brought from Dublin that day to Concession Road to be loaded with cubes of diesel waste. He also pointed to phone contacts between Mr Brady and two known fuel launderers and contacts those men had with two other known fuel launderers. He said it was a “no brainer” and a “self evident exercise” to investigate those links to fuel laundering and added: “Yet the State, for some reason or another, will not look, did not look, did not examine.”

Counsel also questioned a prosecution suggestion that Mr Brady is a “psychopath”, asking the jury to look at his text exchanges with Ms King. A psychopath, counsel said, is someone with no feelings, no moral qualms and who will do whatever they want. In that context he said the jury should look at how he interacted with his girlfriend. He also reminded the jury that Ms King and her family met Mr Brady in the hours after the shooting and said he seemed his normal self; cheerful, cheeky, “not a bother on him”. Mr O’Higgins accepted that his client had told lies and that lies can count against an accused person. However, he also told them that people lie for different reasons and in this case, it was to hide his connection to diesel laundering.

He asked the jury to consider that if Mr Brady was part of an organised gang who had committed this robbery, why his first false account to gardai the day after the shooting was so easily pulled apart and contradicted by one of his alleged accomplices. Counsel said an organised gang would have prepared a story before passing through the garda cordon within a short distance of where the robbery had taken place. He asked the jury to consider Mr Brady’s lies in the context of the “ambiance and atmosphere” of south Armagh and diesel laundering. He added: “It’s against that background that those lies are told.” Counsel questioned the value of CCTV footage which the prosecution says shows a suspect for the robbery traveling to Clogherhead three nights earlier to steal a Volkswagen Passat that was used as the getaway vehicle. Mr O’Higgins said the CCTV is grainy and the times don’t match up to the prosecution’s claims. He described as “flawed” the prosecution’s suggestion that the fact phones belonging to Mr Brady and two suspects in the case went dead around the time of the robbery.

Criticising the gardai investigation, Mr O’Higgins said gardai should have investigated his client’s links to diesel laundering in 2013. They had, counsel said, evidence from Jessica King’s phone that he was laundering diesel at the time, they had records that he was in touch with known fuel launderers and they had evidence elsewhere that the yard he mentioned in his statement was being used for diesel laundering. Counsel accused gardai of closing their eyes to the evidence and putting their heads in the sand in relation to the site at Concession Road. Mr O’Higgins will continue his closing speech to the jury tomorrow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 5:50pm
From what I am reading, there is a very good chance Brady will win an appeal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 5:57pm
There is nothing physically to link him to the location from what I recall.

I looked at it some time ago and thought he had a very good case, but then it fell apart, as his evidence appears to be very unreliable.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nvidic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 9:29pm
Five people didn't give evidence, Gardai are looking into witness intimidation around it, if they deal with that then the state has more witnesses second time out 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 9:46pm
Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Five people didn't give evidence, Gardai are looking into witness intimidation around it, if they deal with that then the state has more witnesses second time out 

The fella that did testify sounds like he has something to hide. His testimony is super sketchy. That and he supported dissident republicans and was pictured with murderer Dean Evans. This fella could be hiding something himself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Cockade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2020 at 10:33am
Brady is a known criminal in South Armagh ( good Gaelic footballer with Crossmaglen Rangers at one time but that's the only good thing I have ever heard about him ). He and the other three South Armagh hoods the authorities are looking for-two brothers who split their time between NI and the USA and a member of a well known business family-have a history of cross border car theft, creeper burglaries, fuel laundering and armed robberies. Lovely people. However, knowing the guy is scum and sending him down for 40 years are two different things and the ' beyond reasonable doubt' criterion is rightly a high hurdle. I find some of the things I have read on this thread disturbing in that regard but the jury clearly didn't believe Brady ( majority was 11-1 ). I will be interested to see if there are any further developments on this case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Croftman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2020 at 10:38am
In fairness that's just the defence's side of things, maybe it's true or maybe it's not. It's one article on it, the jury sat through months of testimony & evidence and decided he was guilty. Fook him
Some people just deserve a slap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yiksheemash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2020 at 10:52am
Originally posted by Croftman Croftman wrote:

In fairness that's just the defence's side of things, maybe it's true or maybe it's not. It's one article on it, the jury sat through months of testimony & evidence and decided he was guilty. Fook him
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Devrozex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2020 at 11:52am
Originally posted by Croftman Croftman wrote:

In fairness that's just the defence's side of things, maybe it's true or maybe it's not. It's one article on it, the jury sat through months of testimony & evidence and decided he was guilty. Fook him
 
Exactly. You often see casual observers going 'How did the jury convict them on that?' or 'how did they not given the evidence?' etc, either knowingly or unknowingly oblivious to the fact that the jury would have had access to far more details of the case than anyone on the outside would.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shoco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2020 at 12:07pm
I'd be very surprised of the Gardai didn't have the right person for this considering it was one of their own that was killed.

The rumors around here at the time was they they knew exactly who it was from a very early stage but would take a long time to prove it

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sham157 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2020 at 1:11pm
Independent.ie

A campaign of intimidation against key prosecution witnesses was a constant feature throughout the Adrian Donohoe murder trial which resulted in a number of people with crucial testimony refusing to come to court.

Before he was even arrested for murder, Aaron Brady was identifying people who could have potentially incriminating evidence against him, which came to light after gardai listened back through more than 500 recorded phone calls he made while in prison serving a separate sentence in early 2018.

Serious concerns were repeatedly raised throughout the trial about witness interference, but the jury never knew about this, or the extent of it.


A VIDEO OF a witness telling gardaí that he heard Aaron Brady admit to murdering a garda was circulated on social media, with text accusing the witness of being a “tout” or a “rat”, in what the presiding judge described as “the most outrageous contempt of court” he had ever seen.

After hearing from representatives of WhatsApp, Mr Justice Michael White found he was “powerless to prevent its dissemination” on that platform and could make no order that would prevent it being circulated.



Edited by Sham157 - 13 Aug 2020 at 1:12pm
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