Martin O'Neill...

Fruice wrote: Villa enjoyed there most constant success in their recent history under o Neill getting them very close to champions league football losing a league cup final and an fa cup simi final. All the while playing nice football. The wage bill did increase but was due to bringing in an increased number of players. Any points that a valid you either dismiss as meaningless or chose to ignore them. These discussions are pointless as you refuse to acknowledge any of his good work instead you choose to point that Ireland play poor football under him and ignore the results. Trap we have been playing similar football to this for the best part of 30 years

You obviously dont remember 2002 when we played super stuff against Spain without any world class players.

I laugh at the this Piers Morgan style ultimatum you lot propose. ''Which would you prefer TJ? Playing long ball and winning or playing decent football and getting hammered?'' 

Maybe it's possible to play a little bit and also get results

We don't have the players.  Look at Dundalk. They played Champions League standard opposition and showed what is possible AND getting results punching well above their weight.  I watched Rovers in 2011 in Europa League and Dundalk in 2016 in the Europa. Dundalk were far more impressive and successful playing a passing game.

Green Devil wrote: Trap junior wrote: Green Devil wrote: Pro Trapattoni supporter lauds Traps use of 4-4-2 and direct brand of football. Pro Trapattoni supporter criticizes O"Neills use of 4-4-2 and direct brand of football. You don't seem able to understand things too well. I criticised MON's approach of changing systems at no notice not the system itself FFS.  If anything MON should go full hog hoofball and play 442 and put Duffy and Murphy up front and lash balls at them instead of lashing long hopeful balls up to a lone striker who cant run. Bullsh*t, backtracking at it's finest.   You were criticizing our style of play under O'Neill long before the Wales game. So don't try and narrow it down to the Wales game only.  Ah "The System" , to not allow any player have any sort of freedom on the pitch just like under Trap?

YCould your posts be any more incoherent??  You referenced a post I made criticising MON about Leicester switching to 3-5-2 from 4-4-2 at no notice and now you are talking about something totally different.  His style of play is sh*te. Make sense will you.

I could have phrased that better. I agree that we have played decent football since then.

It just speaks volumes that the example TJ came up with was 15 years ago is all.

Trap junior wrote: Green Devil wrote: Trap junior wrote: Green Devil wrote: Pro Trapattoni supporter lauds Traps use of 4-4-2 and direct brand of football. Pro Trapattoni supporter criticizes O"Neills use of 4-4-2 and direct brand of football. You don't seem able to understand things too well. I criticised MON's approach of changing systems at no notice not the system itself FFS.  If anything MON should go full hog hoofball and play 442 and put Duffy and Murphy up front and lash balls at them instead of lashing long hopeful balls up to a lone striker who cant run. Bullsh*t, backtracking at it's finest.   You were criticizing our style of play under O'Neill long before the Wales game. So don't try and narrow it down to the Wales game only.  Ah "The System" , to not allow any player have any sort of freedom on the pitch just like under Trap? YCould your posts be any more incoherent??  You referenced a post I made criticising MON about Leicester switching to 3-5-2 from 4-4-2 at no notice and now you are talking about something totally different.  His style of play is sh*te. Make sense will you.

First of all, I don't recall personally criticising Trap, at least not until near the end of his reign. And the reason for a lot of the criticism was twofold: yes, one was about the standard of football. But the second was about the absolute lack of belief and the insipid, lifeless nature of the displays, particularly towards the end of the reign. You can't criticise O'Neill's teams for that.

And yeah, the Saipan point was a good one. Still doesn't answer the point about the example you chose being fifteen years ago, though.

I also note you haven't answered any of the questions either, coming back with a snide few lines and little smiley. I'd accuse you of trolling only I know you actually believe the repetitive stuff you post. I just don't know how you have the energy to keep it up. You'd fit in well with O'Neill's high energy approach, I'll give you that.

Right so if you were the Irish manager, what sort of tactics would you use, what approach would you take and what sort of phases of play would you look to implement with this group of players?

Edited by Green Devil - 13 Oct 2017 at 12:22am

SuperDave84 wrote: First of all, I don't recall personally criticising Trap, at least not until near the end of his reign. And the reason for a lot of the criticism was twofold: yes, one was about the standard of football. But the second was about the absolute lack of belief and the insipid, lifeless nature of the displays, particularly towards the end of the reign. You can't criticise O'Neill's teams for that. And yeah, the Saipan point was a good one. Still doesn't answer the point about the example you chose being fifteen years ago, though. I also note you haven't answered any of the questions either, coming back with a snide few lines and little smiley. I'd accuse you of trolling only I know you actually believe the repetitive stuff you post. I just don't know how you have the energy to keep it up. You'd fit in well with O'Neill's high energy approach, I'll give you that.

Yes he should have gone post 2012 Euros. And? 

Why did I choose an example from 15 years ago you ask?  Well because it was from an era where we played some attractive football and a manager who tried to actively change the way Ireland played and preached a passing game if possible. He mixed it up the right amount too. Knowing when to play long ball but it not being our primary tactic.  Since then we have had Kerr who played dull defensive football, Staunton who chopped and changed and didnt really know what to do, Trap who played long ball and MON who plays long ball. Why would I reference something recent when we havent played good football bar the odd one off game? Passing wasn't encouraged post McCarthy.

I have answered all questions. 

You claim I believe what I write above yet a few hours ago you claimed I dont believe what I write.  You claimed we had f**k all chance of making the playoffs last week but now claim it was likely. You flip flop more than Greg Louganis.

Green Devil wrote: Right so if you were the Irish manager, what sort of tactics would you use, what approach would you take and what sort of phases of play would you look to implement with this group of players? Or better still what manager realistically do you think would take the Irish job and what return would you expect in a 4 year time frame? You keep mentioning systems, the approach etc  Bear in mind I'm a big advocate in getting a younger manager in with fresh ideas myself sooner rather than later.

Team shape I'd like to have 3 options. A preferred system and 2 optional systems that they players know off by heart.  I'd encourage passing from the back only when safe to do so.. Not the silly sort of stuff Wales did the other night where Hennessy rolled it to Williams with players around him.
If long ball I want my players to know what area the ball will be played into so they can be on the move before the defender.  I'd demand my midfielders look for the ball but leave it up them to play i short or long as they see it but defenitely look to pass it first. I'd demand faster passing not slow laborious passing that we often see. I'd have 2 holding defenders in defensive phase keeping 5 yards or so in front of the back 4. I'd have the wingers also drop back just in front of the full backs too.  I'd leave two up  and encourage fast counter attack passing.  One area I can't stand is our free kicks. We have no imagination and there doesn't seem to be any thought put into them on the training ground. They just lump it in. You never see clever little moves. Sweden in the 1994 World cup e.g. against Romania had lots of clever ideas.

There are the likes of Lagerback, McCarthy. Stephen Kenny. Van Haezebrouck is obtainable I mo. He knocked Spurs out of Europe last year and is with a small club and recently was overlooked for the Belgium job. If we could get back to the way we played even in 2000 I'd take it now. That was an entertaining 4-4-2.   I am not asking for a lot. Just someone who plays the game resembling football.  I'm sick of everyone assuming you have to forego results to play a bit. You dont. 

Yes we need to develop the grassroots for the future but there's nothing to stop us playing a bit now. I don't buy that we cant or the players arent there.  Stephen Kenny showed its possible with bang average players against very good opposition.

TJ,the gods were smiling down on us results wise in other games that we'd no control over like they did under Jack and Trap. This is nothing new.

The gods weren't smiling down on us injury wise in this campaign, so as huge as Bale's injury was (couldn't believe some of the Welsh on their own forum didn't see that as anything other than a crippling blow) it doesn't negate the fact that we have had substantial list of injuries in this campaign and to a lesser extent in the last one and Euros. O'Neill has not been lucky in any shape or form overall in this regard. 

To take away O'Neill's reputation as a club manager is desperate stuff. Any football supporter even if you were a hardcore loyalist Rangers fan who despised O'Neill would acknowledge, he had a decent career at club level. Has done very well at teams with limited resources, most notably Leicester and Ireland at international level. He's had a solid club career with modest enough cup wins. 

If your main ally is Planning on here and one of the mods referred to you in similar terms to trapnoclue, is that not reason enough to stop digging? You've made your point on every aspect on O'Neill ad nauseum.   

That said, I have to say you did O'Neill genuine credit (not through gritted teeth either) the night we beat Bosnia and qualified for France.  

Any Irish manager that achieves two playoffs in a row from a limited squad has done a fantastic job and deserves another campaign. 

Actually disagree with you that Trap should've gone after the Euros. 2 playoff campaigns irrespective of whether we qualified or not or got hammered in the finals, for me any Irish manager deserves another campaign on the back of that no matter how much I disagreed with his tactics/selections/communication issues etc etc.